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Is it realistic to trade Grabo and make room for our prospects?

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Old
10-09-2012, 03:44 PM
  #76
ULF_55
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Originally Posted by ForSpareParts View Post
Lets face it. We are not good enough a team to make the *post season this year. We have Connolly who's suited to play 2nd, and Bozak is really best suited for the third line role. I say we open up a roster spot to get our young centers some experience:

Lupul Colborne/McKeggerz Kessel
Mac Kadri/Connolly JVR
Lombo/Frattin Bozak Kuli
Brown/Deschamps McClement Steckel/Komarov/Orr

*yes I know there's a lock out and I know there might not be a season.

It's time to assume that our prospects have matured enough, so let's give them some NHL games.

Grabo is not the future.
So you are suggesting Burke is going to claim he has failed and start over?

I just don't see that happening.

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10-09-2012, 03:45 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
You didn't answer how Kule was a 30 goal scorer, a great winger the year before and Grabo only managed 7 pts more in a full 82 game season. Did Kule all of a sudden become a bum last year?
Yes, that's exactly the reason! He still played great defensively, but his offense was piss-poor at best! He couldn't even get more points then Gardiner, our rookie defender.

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10-09-2012, 03:46 PM
  #78
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Didn't the Corsi stats have the best player in the game Sid Crosby ranked only 8th on his own team?
http://behindthenet.ca/2011/new_5_on...team=PIT&pos=F

Nope, he's first. Nice try.

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10-09-2012, 03:59 PM
  #79
Interactif
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Looking at this thread, if you didn't know better you would think we were talking about Malkin and not Grabvoski.

Pages of posts on a very average player, imagine if he were actually a star.

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10-09-2012, 04:00 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by 7even View Post
Oops, try again.

What are Corsi numbers?

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And where did the best player in hockey, Sidney Crosby, rank? 87th overall.
Before his injury, Crosby was racking up goals and assists faster than ever in his career, and far faster than anyone else in the NHL at even strength. But if we went by Crosby’s Corsi plus/minus, he was just the eighth highest ranked player on his own team, behind players like Mark Letestu, Chris Conner and Tyler Kennedy.
http://blogs.edmontonjournal.com/201...ating-players/

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10-09-2012, 04:25 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
You didn't answer how Kule was a 30 goal scorer, a great winger the year before and Grabo only managed 7 pts more in a full 82 game season. Did Kule all of a sudden become a bum last year?
Yes, he did. Kulie looked lost in the offensive zone. His shooting % was high the year he scored 30 because, while Grabovski was doing all the work, Kulie benefited from burying all the loose pucks in front of the net (pucks which were there mainly because of Grabovski's work ethic).

On another note, if the Leafs were gonna succeed, Burke should have provided Wilson with a d-corps that has wheels and a high hockey IQ. Instead he provided Wilson and his run n' gun system with a bunch of guys with brawns over brains who had lead feet. Consistency in between the pipes would have gone a long way as well. It's not Grabovski's fault the Leafs suck

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10-09-2012, 04:27 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
Oops, try again.

What are Corsi numbers?



http://blogs.edmontonjournal.com/201...ating-players/
I don't get it. I cite you the actual raw data which clearly shows Crosby with a Corsi REL of +17, easily first on his team, and you refute that with an opinion piece written by an Edmonon journalist who doesn't bother providing his sources and was also written last year? With data from the wrong year? Okay That's confirmation bias if I've ever seen it.

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10-09-2012, 04:30 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
Looking at this thread, if you didn't know better you would think we were talking about Malkin and not Grabvoski.

Pages of posts on a very average player, imagine if he were actually a star.
It's mainly people talking about your constant bashing and blaming of one player for a whole team's failure.

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10-09-2012, 04:44 PM
  #84
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So you are suggesting Burke is going to claim he has failed and start over?

I just don't see that happening.
I think he's already stood in front of the media and done this a few times. MLSE has even issued an apology. It's just a matter of time until ownership no longer accepts them.

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10-09-2012, 04:47 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
Looking at this thread, if you didn't know better you would think we were talking about Malkin and not Grabvoski.

Pages of posts on a very average player, imagine if he were actually a star.
Or Tyler Biggs

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10-09-2012, 04:53 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by ForSpareParts View Post
Lets face it. We are not good enough a team to make the *post season this year. We have Connolly who's suited to play 2nd, and Bozak is really best suited for the third line role. I say we open up a roster spot to get our young centers some experience:

Lupul Colborne/McKeggerz Kessel
Mac Kadri/Connolly JVR
Lombo/Frattin Bozak Kuli
Brown/Deschamps McClement Steckel/Komarov/Orr

*yes I know there's a lock out and I know there might not be a season.

It's time to assume that our prospects have matured enough, so let's give them some NHL games.

Grabo is not the future.
to make room for, getzlaf and perry in the summer, JULY 1 2013

LUPUL-GETZLAF-KESSEL
JVR-KADRI-PERRY
KULIMUN-MAC-FRATTIN

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10-09-2012, 05:04 PM
  #87
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to make room for, getzlaf and perry in the summer, july 1 2013

lupul-getzlaf-kessel
jvr-kadri-perry
kulimun-mac-frattin
but cadri"s too fat

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Old
10-09-2012, 05:11 PM
  #88
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Yup, lets train and bring up players like Grabo, so just as they're hitting their prime, we can trade them off and start the process again from the start.

Holy DERP.

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10-09-2012, 05:13 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by 7even View Post
I don't get it. I cite you the actual raw data which clearly shows Crosby with a Corsi REL of +17, easily first on his team, and you refute that with an opinion piece written by an Edmonon journalist who doesn't bother providing his sources and was also written last year? With data from the wrong year? Okay That's confirmation bias if I've ever seen it.
The Edmonton Journal is a credible source. Here's the journalist you are calling a liar? You doubt this author would not check his facts before writing a piece?

Biography

Award-winning journalist and best-selling author David Staples, born and raised in Devon, Alberta, and a resident of Edmonton since 1985, has been a journalist for 30 years, reporting on crime, politics, sports, the arts and current events.

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10-09-2012, 05:15 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by 12345 View Post
Yup, lets train and bring up players like Grabo, so just as they're hitting their prime, we can trade them off and start the process again from the start.

Holy DERP.
Or let's stay the course and keep Grabo instead of a player with size, skill, and consistency. 25th place rules!

Power Fact:

Grabo has never scored 60 points in a season, nor has he ever played in the post-season.

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10-09-2012, 05:29 PM
  #91
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Prospects need to earn their spot...meaning playing well enough to take jobs away from current players in the line up. Besides that, Grabo is our best centre on the team and the Leafs don't have any quality centre prospects (not counting Kadri as it seems he's carving himself a role as a winger in the Leafs organization). Leafs haven't made playoffs with Grabo in the lineup, but he isn't the reason for that so I think it's far too simplistic to say that he's expendable because he hasn't taken the team to the playoffs. You cant put that burden on ONE guy.

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10-09-2012, 05:34 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by GordieHoweHatTrick View Post
Yes, he did. Kulie looked lost in the offensive zone. His shooting % was high the year he scored 30 because, while Grabovski was doing all the work, Kulie benefited from burying all the loose pucks in front of the net (pucks which were there mainly because of Grabovski's work ethic).

On another note, if the Leafs were gonna succeed, Burke should have provided Wilson with a d-corps that has wheels and a high hockey IQ. Instead he provided Wilson and his run n' gun system with a bunch of guys with brawns over brains who had lead feet. Consistency in between the pipes would have gone a long way as well. It's not Grabovski's fault the Leafs suck
Kule is a bum but when he went down, Grabo's game slipped dramtically. Grabo doing all the work is not accurate, remember even Wilson commented that Kule did a lot of the dirty work that doesn't get noticed on that line that makes his linemates look good. The fact that Grabo struggled without him is a testament of Kule's value.

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10-09-2012, 05:57 PM
  #93
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Why on earth would we do that? Trade a sure thing to make room for a question mark who may never reach Grabovski's level?

Sounds good....

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10-09-2012, 05:59 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
Kule is a bum but when he went down, Grabo's game slipped dramtically. Grabo doing all the work is not accurate, remember even Wilson commented that Kule did a lot of the dirty work that doesn't get noticed on that line that makes his linemates look good. The fact that Grabo struggled without him is a testament of Kule's value.
Grabo didn't struggle without Kulemin.

His points pace was two below the previous year. Two. And that was WITH Kulemin forgetting how to play hockey on his wing for a good part of the year.

And let's not pretend Kulemin redeemed himself a bit defensively last season. He was bad at everything. You asked if Kule all of a sudden became a bum last year as if that isn't exactly what happened.

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10-09-2012, 06:02 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by 7even View Post
I don't get it. I cite you the actual raw data which clearly shows Crosby with a Corsi REL of +17, easily first on his team, and you refute that with an opinion piece written by an Edmonon journalist who doesn't bother providing his sources and was also written last year? With data from the wrong year? Okay That's confirmation bias if I've ever seen it.
Further given the author cited Cherry's 2010 remarks, Crosby was 10th on the Pens by season's end in Corsi stats. So yes they are more than likely accurate.

Here is the link, nice try again. Crosby 10th on the Pens, judge Corsi stats at your own risk.

http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_stati...52+53+54+55+56

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10-09-2012, 06:08 PM
  #96
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Ya lets trade our best centre, cause we def have the depth to be doing that.

Noticed Champs was the 4th line centre, the thread title should be "how far FSP would go to put Champs on the Leafs" (destroying any centre depth the Leafs have)

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Old
10-09-2012, 06:10 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
The Edmonton Journal is a credible source. Here's the journalist you are calling a liar? You doubt this author would not check his facts before writing a piece?

Biography

Award-winning journalist and best-selling author David Staples, born and raised in Devon, Alberta, and a resident of Edmonton since 1985, has been a journalist for 30 years, reporting on crime, politics, sports, the arts and current events.
Journalist's lie all the time. It's becoming a rampant issue in the world of the newspaper. It happens all the time. I happen to personally know two media members who have both run papers (The Calgary Herald, The Gazette in Montreal, and a member of the CRTC) and both says its becoming incredibly common in the industry. Journalism isn't the credible medium it used to be.

But I digress, before someone thinks I'm defending the OP or you. I'm indifferent.

Anyways...what do you have against Kulemin and Grabovski? I'd love a detailed explanation. I've seen many, many posts of your distaste for them and I want to know why.

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10-09-2012, 06:15 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
The Edmonton Journal is a credible source. Here's the journalist you are calling a liar? You doubt this author would not check his facts before writing a piece?

Biography

Award-winning journalist and best-selling author David Staples, born and raised in Devon, Alberta, and a resident of Edmonton since 1985, has been a journalist for 30 years, reporting on crime, politics, sports, the arts and current events.
Moot point because that article was published October 7th, 2011. Clarification: over a year ago. And just cause the dude won an award doesn't mean we should subscribe to anything and everything he says. That's how propaganda works. That's a very frightening idea indeed. So yes, I'll doubt whoever I want, because in the end, I can just go check the facts myself, which is exactly what I did. And then I went even further and gave those facts to you. And you're still swearing by a guy who's not even on the right year. But **** me for being a critical consumer of information, right? Next time I'll determine what I believe by the length of the biography page of whoever's pushing it.

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10-09-2012, 06:23 PM
  #99
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This is bang on, in other sports players don't usually make it until their 20's, but in the NHL you're a bust if you can't make it by 19. It's rare that players in other sports make the team after their draft year.
accept that normally someone graduates from college at 20-21. jr. hockey has a younger graduation.

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10-09-2012, 06:24 PM
  #100
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Originally Posted by TheFinnishKulemin View Post
Journalist's lie all the time. It's becoming a rampant issue in the world of the newspaper. It happens all the time. I happen to personally know two media members who have both run papers (The Calgary Herald, The Gazette in Montreal, and a member of the CRTC) and both says its becoming incredibly common in the industry. Journalism isn't the credible medium it used to be.

But I digress, before someone thinks I'm defending the OP or you. I'm indifferent.

Anyways...what do you have against Kulemin and Grabovski? I'd love a detailed explanation. I've seen many, many posts of your distaste for them and I want to know why.
Say Corsi stats are an accurate reflection of a player's worth, how does it explain Crosby finishing 10th on the Pens for season 10-11?

Or closer to home, Grabo was a 14.9 and Kessel our MVP last season by most unbiased fans finished 6th with a paltry 3.2 corsi rating for the 11-12 season.

Even Corsi fanatics would have a hard time justifying those assertions. It's a flawed system filled with holes.

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