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Is it realistic to trade Grabo and make room for our prospects?

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Old
10-09-2012, 06:27 PM
  #101
The Blue Devil
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Originally Posted by ForSpareParts View Post
accept that normally someone graduates from college at 20-21. jr. hockey has a younger graduation.
Pretty sure they still have the option to leave if offered a contract(big possibility that I'm wrong), but it still doesn't change he fact that we put a lot of pressure on 18-19 year olds to not only play in the top league of their sport, but to also have an impact when doing so.

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10-09-2012, 06:27 PM
  #102
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Further given the author cited Cherry's 2010 remarks, Crosby was 10th on the Pens by season's end in Corsi stats. So yes they are more than likely accurate.

Here is the link, nice try again. Crosby 10th on the Pens, judge Corsi stats at your own risk.

http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_stati...52+53+54+55+56
That's definitely unsettling. Corsi's an imperfect stat, but that's quite a bit of variance from where you'd expect Crosby to be, especially since its sorted by REL. I'll look into it later and get back to you.

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10-09-2012, 06:28 PM
  #103
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Moot point because that article was published October 7th, 2011. Clarification: over a year ago. And just cause the dude won an award doesn't mean we should subscribe to anything and everything he says. That's how propaganda works. That's a very frightening idea indeed. So yes, I'll doubt whoever I want, because in the end, I can just go check the facts myself, which is exactly what I did. And then I went even further and gave those facts to you. And you're still swearing by a guy who's not even on the right year. But **** me for being a critical consumer of information, right? Next time I'll determine what I believe by the length of the biography page of whoever's pushing it.
Again here is the link. NICE TRY. While you get back to me on how Crosby was the 10th best player on the Pens for 10-11, explain to me how Phil Kessel coming off a career year that even his worst critics would concede was a great year by his standards was only 6th on the Leafs in Corsi.

http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_stati...52+53+54+55+56

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10-09-2012, 06:30 PM
  #104
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proof of * Corsi's imperfection.

:yo


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10-09-2012, 06:31 PM
  #105
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Say Corsi stats are an accurate reflection of a player's worth, how does it explain Crosby finishing 10th on the Pens for season 10-11?

Or closer to home, Grabo was a 14.9 and Kessel our MVP last season by most unbiased fans finished 6th with a paltry 3.2 corsi rating for the 11-12 season.

Even Corsi fanatics would have a hard time justifying those assertions. It's a flawed system filled with holes.
That's because Kessel isn't good defensively.

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10-09-2012, 06:32 PM
  #106
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Again here is the link. NICE TRY. While you get back to me on how Crosby is the 10th best player on the Pens for 10-11, explain to me how Phil Kessel coming off a career year that even his worst critics would concede was a great year by his standards was only 6th on the Leafs in Corsi.

http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_stati...52+53+54+55+56
10th best? Corsi measures possession and shot differential. What're you even going on about?

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10-09-2012, 06:33 PM
  #107
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That's because Kessel isn't good defensively.
Really, I thought Burke and most were commending him on becoming a 200 ft player. You sure you watch Leafs games?

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10-09-2012, 06:33 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by ForSpareParts View Post
in this thread:

proof of How Corsi's imperfection.

:yo
In this thread:

Awful how sentence structure

:yo;

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10-09-2012, 06:35 PM
  #109
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10th best? Corsi measures possession and shot differential. What're you even going on about?
Great a concession by you that it doesn't measure the relative worth of a player. Now we are getting somewhere!

BTW incase you missed it, Corsi also measures shots to the net, even when they don't hit the net.

Brilliant useless stat.

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10-09-2012, 06:36 PM
  #110
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The leafs only have one Center that would actually even play in the nhl on any other team.
And it's being suggested we trade him...
to make room for prospects of which none of whom are projected to be as good as Grabovski anyways...

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10-09-2012, 06:39 PM
  #111
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Really, I thought Burke and most were commending him on becoming a 200 ft player. You sure you watch Leafs games?
Nobody has ever in the history of ever called Kessel a 200ft play. But now we're talking about how complete of a player Kessel is and how much Burke sucks. Congratulations, thread derailment complete.

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10-09-2012, 06:40 PM
  #112
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Alex Ovechkin 12th on the Washington Capitals last year in corsi stats. He, Kessel, and Crosby must be busts.

But Grabo is great, 1st in Corsi. All Corsi is proving is don't have good corsi numbers if you want to be one of the NHL's best. LOL

http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_stati...52+53+54+55+56

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10-09-2012, 06:40 PM
  #113
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In this thread:

Awful how sentence structure

:yo;
fixed!

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10-09-2012, 06:46 PM
  #114
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Nobody has ever in the history of ever called Kessel a 200ft play. But now we're talking about how complete of a player Kessel is and how much Burke sucks. Congratulations, thread derailment complete.
You really don't want me to find Burke's quote do you, you are obviously having a very bad day with the facts.

ForSpareParts, change the title to include Corsi to make our friend happy.

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10-09-2012, 06:47 PM
  #115
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Journalist's lie all the time. It's becoming a rampant issue in the world of the newspaper. It happens all the time. I happen to personally know two media members who have both run papers (The Calgary Herald, The Gazette in Montreal, and a member of the CRTC) and both says its becoming incredibly common in the industry. Journalism isn't the credible medium it used to be.

But I digress, before someone thinks I'm defending the OP or you. I'm indifferent.

Anyways...what do you have against Kulemin and Grabovski? I'd love a detailed explanation. I've seen many, many posts of your distaste for them and I want to know why.
They are Russian.

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10-09-2012, 06:50 PM
  #116
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Really, I thought Burke and most were commending him on becoming a 200 ft player. You sure you watch Leafs games?
No, they were saying it was nice to see him in the D-zone every once in a while. Yes, he's gotten better then HE used to be at defence, that doesn't change the fact that he's still not very good at it.

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10-09-2012, 06:53 PM
  #117
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Great a concession by you that it doesn't measure the relative worth of a player. Now we are getting somewhere!

BTW incase you missed it, Corsi also measures shots to the net, even when they don't hit the net.

Brilliant useless stat.
Christ. I'm going to recommend you look at what statistics are and what you do with them. Radim Vrbata had 35 goals last year. Jamie Benn had a paltry 26. This does not mean I'm advocating Jamie Benn be traded for Radim Vrbata. "But the stats!" you'll cry. "You only look at stats, 7even! The stats say Vrbata is a better player! You think Vrbata is better than Benn! Hah!" To which I will respond, "No, young Interactif, goals are but one metric by which we evaluate a player. Take our dear Mikhail Grabovski for example. He's a consistent 20 goal scorer. He also scores somewhere around 50 points a season. His Corsi REL was a +14 last year. By putting together all of these stats, we can say that Mikhail Grabovksi is a good hockey player. We can also identify Vrbata's year as statistically insignificant, as a variety of factors will lead us to the conclusion that his goal eruption this year was an unsustainable apparition. Thus, the stats corroborate that Benn is a better player, offensively and otherwise. See how useful stats are when we use more than one to make decisions? It's kind of like magic!"

I can see this conversation happening. In fact, I think we're having it right now.

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10-09-2012, 06:53 PM
  #118
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Again here is the link. NICE TRY. While you get back to me on how Crosby is the 10th best player on the Pens for 10-11, explain to me how Phil Kessel coming off a career year that even his worst critics would concede was a great year by his standards was only 6th on the Leafs in Corsi.

http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_stati...52+53+54+55+56
Not really sure what you don't get about the corsi stat. Nothing says your highest scoring player should always have the best number on his team?

The fact that Kessel had a low relative corsi would make someone who actually watched him play all season think it's a good measure. Phil Kessel does a fair amount (28% the year in question) of his point accumulating on the powerplay and had by FAR the most PP time on the team. He and Lupul are both awful defensively and thus have many shots directed at their own net while they're on the ice, also tending to score at even strength off the rush while getting stuck in their own zone for significant lengths of time.

There could be a number of reasons why Crosby's relative corsi wasnt amazing in 10-11.

1) The most obvious is that he only played half the season, no statistic is going to tell the whole story if you reduce the sample size.

2) This is compounded because when your two star players both miss half the season, of COURSE other players are going to make a higher-than-usual number of shot attempts. WAY higher.

3) Crosby had a shooting percentage of almost 20 that year. When you score at that rate your line is obviously going to direct fewer shots towards the net. Crosby's career shooting % is around 15, and one would expect that had be played the whole year he would have probably ended up much closer to that.

4) His most regular line-mate was Kunitz who was also scoring at 5% over his career percentage (also in an incomplete year), compounding the above point.

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10-09-2012, 06:54 PM
  #119
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Really, I thought Burke and most were commending him on becoming a 200 ft player. You sure you watch Leafs games?
Working on becoming a 200 foot player is a far cry from being a good 200 foot player.

Kessel sucks defensively. He's soft, easily overpowered and defers to opposition players.

He's an excellent offensive player but that's it.

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10-09-2012, 06:57 PM
  #120
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No, they were saying it was nice to see him in the D-zone every once in a while. Yes, he's gotten better then HE used to be at defence, that doesn't change the fact that he's still not very good at it.
Quote:
To his credit, Kessel is doing more than just scoring goals this year. Coach Ron Wilson has called him “defensively responsible” and GM Brian Burke says the dynamic forward’s success stems from playing a “200-foot-game.
http://sports.nationalpost.com/2011/...er-leaf-great/

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10-09-2012, 06:59 PM
  #121
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They are Russian.
Says the guy who had a man crush on Grigorenko.

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10-09-2012, 07:01 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by Interactif View Post
Alex Ovechkin 12th on the Washington Capitals last year in corsi stats. He, Kessel, and Crosby must be busts.

But Grabo is great, 1st in Corsi. All Corsi is proving is don't have good corsi numbers if you want to be one of the NHL's best. LOL

http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_stati...52+53+54+55+56
You know what the best part about this post is? Throughout all my posts, I've said absolutely nothing about Corsi being the end all be all of player value. You're straw manning me so ****ing hard I'm about to start calling you Dorothy.

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10-09-2012, 07:03 PM
  #123
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Says the guy who had a man crush on Grigorenko.
Kessel's game has evolved, he is not nearly as bad defensively as some make him out to be here. To suggest otherwise to me means you haven't watched him play last year. I doubt NHL players polled would have made him the 15th best player last year if he was as bad defensively as some would make us believe.

So now we are down to critiquing our best player last year to prop up Grabo. Desperate times for Grabo enablers.

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10-09-2012, 07:04 PM
  #124
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Don't worry, Interactif is to Grabovski what Jughead is to Kadri.

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10-09-2012, 07:05 PM
  #125
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“I’m not interested … in a five-year rebuild like some of these teams have done. Maybe because of my age, maybe just because I know it doesn’t have to be five years because it wasn’t in Anaheim.”

Brian is always sincere with his comments, like when he defended Allaire.

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