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Tarasenko to NJ

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Old
10-09-2012, 05:56 PM
  #76
Yashintangibles
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At 22, Henrique was the main reason with Kovalchuk why Devils made it to the SCF. The kid proved already that he may be there in the crunch time for a few more times. Also Henrique is a center playing top line minutes, and he'll be a RFA for 5 years again. Adam means 2-way plays at the NHL level. His offense is good, but his defense is just great. He kills penalties like a boss, takes pretty effective PP time, he can play wing perfectly also, his skating skills and backhander shot are close to elite. He's strong and doesn't fear anyone, ask Iginla.


Tarasensko is serioulsy over-evaluated here. No way in the real world a talented but totally unproven winger, that hasn't even play a single game in the NHL is worth a 22 years old top line center. STL being optimistic about his future is understandable, and I'm personally a fan of his, but Tarasenko is not expected to be the next Gordie Howe neither iIrc.


STL would've to start with Tarasenko+3rd to get Lamoriello's attention. And as much as I'd love to see Tarasenko with Kovalchuk in red&black, I really do, Henrique is already too important in the Devils system. All around 2-way centers under RFA contract for 5 seasons again would be a great significance anywhere anyway.

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10-09-2012, 06:14 PM
  #77
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Oh the glorious argument that Tarasenko isn't proven. When you have to go to that, you aren't winning the argument.

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10-09-2012, 06:21 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Yuri the Fury View Post
At 22, Henrique was the main reason with Kovalchuk why Devils made it to the SCF. The kid proved already that he may be there in the crunch time for a few more times. Also Henrique is a center playing top line minutes, and he'll be a RFA for 5 years again. Adam means 2-way plays at the NHL level. His offense is good, but his defense is just great. He kills penalties like a boss, takes pretty effective PP time, he can play wing perfectly also, his skating skills and backhander shot are close to elite. He's strong and doesn't fear anyone, ask Iginla.


Tarasensko is serioulsy over-evaluated here. No way in the real world a talented but totally unproven winger, that hasn't even play a single game in the NHL is worth a 22 years old top line center. STL being optimistic about his future is understandable, and I'm personally a fan of his, but Tarasenko is not expected to be the next Gordie Howe neither iIrc.


STL would've to start with Tarasenko+3rd to get Lamoriello's attention. And as much as I'd love to see Tarasenko with Kovalchuk in red&black, I really do, Henrique is already too important in the Devils system. All around 2-way centers under RFA contract for 5 seasons again would be a great significance anywhere anyway.
Every top prospect is overvalued. I mean if someone would make proposal to Sharks fans to trade Malkin for Thornton in 2006 before the season started, what kind of answers he'd get? But now you won't get Malkin for the whole Shark's franchise...

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10-09-2012, 06:22 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
Oh the glorious argument that Tarasenko isn't proven. When you have to go to that, you aren't winning the argument.
And this kind of answer was expected either, see ?

I never said Tarasenko will be a bust. But if anyone is thinking that to not have played a single game in the NHL can't be a factor to evaluate players trading value, GM will do that for him.

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10-09-2012, 06:28 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Kshahdoo View Post
Every top prospect is overvalued. I mean if someone would make proposal to Sharks fans to trade Malkin for Thornton in 2006 before the season started, what kind of answers he'd get? But now you won't get Malkin for the whole Shark's franchise...
You're pointing at the main problem I've got with this thread. Tarasensko's likely to be a great NHLer but Malkin's close to be a generational talent now and he was expected to be that guy when he was drafted. That's why I said Tarasensko is overvalued.

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10-09-2012, 06:29 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Yuri the Fury View Post
And this kind of answer was expected either, see ?

I never said Tarasenko will be a bust. But if anyone is thinking that to not have played a single game in the NHL can't be a factor to evaluate players trading value, GM will do that for him.
Tarasenko has been dominating the KHL since the start of last season. If you actually watch him play, you will realize that his game will easily transition to the NHL. It's not like he tailored his game to only be successful in Europe. He has an NHL body, he plays physical, he plays north-south, and during the practices he showed that he already has one of the better shots and is one of the fastest skaters.

Put some substance in your argument instead of just saying he hasn't played in the NHL.

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10-09-2012, 06:30 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Yuri the Fury View Post
You're pointing at the main problem I've got with this thread. Tarasensko's likely to be a great NHLer but Malkin's close to be a generational talent now and he was expected to be that guy when he was drafted. That's why I said Tarasensko is overvalued.
No one said he is like or will be like Malkin. No one has even said what type of production they expect out of Tarasenko. Realistically, he will be similar to Bobby Ryan, both style and production wise.

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10-09-2012, 06:35 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
Tarasenko has been dominating the KHL since the start of last season. If you actually watch him play, you will realize that his game will easily transition to the NHL. It's not like he tailored his game to only be successful in Europe. He has an NHL body, he plays physical, he plays north-south, and during the practices he showed that he already has one of the better shots and is one of the fastest skaters.

Put some substance in your argument instead of just saying he hasn't played in the NHL.
Great scouting report, but It's not me that has to put substance in something yet but Tarasensko. Breaking news: KHL is just not NHL for a ton of great reasons.

I said many times Tarasenko's likely to fit the expectations and that I really like him but you'll surely overlook this phrase one more time.

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10-09-2012, 06:41 PM
  #84
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I don't see what's invalid about saying that Tarasenko hasn't played in the NHL yet. He hasn't. He probably will be very successful, but until he enters the league and actually performs up to the level his talent promises, he's not proven. His skill is obvious, but his ability to thrive in the NHL is thus far unproven. Skilled players have washed out before, and inevitably some will in the future too.

The trick is to identify the skilled guys who will be successful beforehand, and the Blues believe they have done so with Tarasenko. That's why they value him highly and don't want to trade him. But because he isn't proven, other teams won't be willing to meet the Blues' high valuation of him, resulting in the Blues valuing him much higher than any other team does. Guys like that don't get traded. Simple as that.

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10-09-2012, 06:48 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Saugus View Post
I don't see what's invalid about saying that Tarasenko hasn't played in the NHL yet. He hasn't. He probably will be very successful, but until he enters the league and actually performs up to the level his talent promises, he's not proven. His skill is obvious, but his ability to thrive in the NHL is thus far unproven. Skilled players have washed out before, and inevitably some will in the future too.

The trick is to identify the skilled guys who will be successful beforehand, and the Blues believe they have done so with Tarasenko. That's why they value him highly and don't want to trade him. But because he isn't proven, other teams won't be willing to meet the Blues' high valuation of him, resulting in the Blues valuing him much higher than any other team does. Guys like that don't get traded. Simple as that.
You are right.

And one last time, Blues fans already seeing Tarasenko as their future elite forward is really understandable. Devils fans would've been delighted to draft such a talent at RW,

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10-09-2012, 07:37 PM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuri the Fury View Post
And this kind of answer was expected either, see ?

I never said Tarasenko will be a bust. But if anyone is thinking that to not have played a single game in the NHL can't be a factor to evaluate players trading value, GM will do that for him.
Context is of paramount importance though. If the Devils are approaching the Blues then the Blues have the leverage. Obviously if it's the other way around, then the Devils have the leverage(Devils fan started the thread so....). Value really doesn't exist in a vaccuum so why treat it that way? Besides, saying someone hasn't played an NHL game is just about the weakest argument against you could possibly come up with. Why bother inquiring if you're "not sure" about his lack of an NHL resume? Let's cut the crap here. Teams pay pro scouts to evaluate prospects on the cusp and veterans alike and project what they'll be able to do and how soon/how much longer they'll do it. If the Devils inquired at all, it would be because they feel he will pan out.

If Tarasenko hadn't signed his ELC, he'd be worth next to nothing comparitive to his talent. As it stands, he is signed to his ELC and has made his intention to play in NA very clear. Therefore, NHL GM's would then be forced to acknowledge this value or risk having Doug Armstrong hang up on them.

It's all moot because not only are the Blues not looking to trade their young elite winger, the Devils don't have a LD worth trading him for. It will be another winger traded when it does happen anyway. These two teams just aren't good trade partners at this point in time.

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10-09-2012, 07:54 PM
  #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuri the Fury View Post
At 22, Henrique was the main reason with Kovalchuk why Devils made it to the SCF. The kid proved already that he may be there in the crunch time for a few more times. Also Henrique is a center playing top line minutes, and he'll be a RFA for 5 years again. Adam means 2-way plays at the NHL level. His offense is good, but his defense is just great. He kills penalties like a boss, takes pretty effective PP time, he can play wing perfectly also, his skating skills and backhander shot are close to elite. He's strong and doesn't fear anyone, ask Iginla.


Tarasensko is serioulsy over-evaluated here. No way in the real world a talented but totally unproven winger, that hasn't even play a single game in the NHL is worth a 22 years old top line center. STL being optimistic about his future is understandable, and I'm personally a fan of his, but Tarasenko is not expected to be the next Gordie Howe neither iIrc.


STL would've to start with Tarasenko+3rd to get Lamoriello's attention. And as much as I'd love to see Tarasenko with Kovalchuk in red&black, I really do, Henrique is already too important in the Devils system. All around 2-way centers under RFA contract for 5 seasons again would be a great significance anywhere anyway.
Wrong during the season he was with Kovalchuk in the playoffs he was playing on the 3rd line with Ponikarovsky and Clarkson

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10-09-2012, 07:58 PM
  #88
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ok fine, u guys twisted our arms. throw in bernier too.

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10-09-2012, 09:05 PM
  #89
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Ah, the old "We really want this guy, what's the price?" "This, which there's no way you are willing to give" "WHAT!? Are you kidding me!? That guy is totally unproven and raelly not that good! Here, take some pieces your team doesn't need and we'll take him off your hands" routine. Lovely.

Most trade talks with the Blues can simply be said like this. The Blues have very few needs. If we aren't getting someone who fits our needs perfectly, in both an on ice perspective, and a contractual "our team makes no money and we need players on the cheap" perspective. The Devils have nobody that match both criteria.

And, for the record, Tarasenko is the best forward prospect the Blues have had in over 20 years. He has elite sniper potential. The Blues most dire need in all reality is a flat out goal scorer. What sane individual would trade that?

You can say we are over valuing him. We don't care.

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10-09-2012, 09:10 PM
  #90
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Besides, you can't overvalue someone who's already been decided is the 2nd coming of Jesus.

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10-09-2012, 09:10 PM
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
Besides, you can't overvalue someone who's already been decided is the 2nd coming of Jesus.
A bit early to call Kovy Jesus after one good playoff run

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10-09-2012, 09:13 PM
  #92
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A bit early to call Kovy Jesus after one good playoff run
Kovy got first line minutes, where as Tarasenko dominated while only getting 4th line minutes. The dude is a god.

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10-09-2012, 10:18 PM
  #93
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We can argue players value till the cows come home but it doesnt change the facts. Tarasenko is exactly what we need, would take a overpayment to get since signing his ELC, and your offering nothing to improve our team. Proping up your player while bashing the other isn't going to change any of it.

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10-09-2012, 10:22 PM
  #94
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Tarasenko's value is higher to STL than anyone else. Kovy's value is higher to NJD than anyone else. There isn't a fair deal here.

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10-09-2012, 10:40 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
Kovy got first line minutes, where as Tarasenko dominated while only getting 4th line minutes. The dude is a god.
Zherdev had the highest points per minute on the ice in 2010-11 but he's out of the league right now...

Just some food for thought. Obviously Tarasenko is ridiculously talented but players typically get the minutes their coaches feel they deserve.

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10-09-2012, 10:45 PM
  #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bleedblue1223 View Post
Oh the glorious argument that Tarasenko isn't proven. When you have to go to that, you aren't winning the argument.
That is actually a valid point for Europeans coming to a new league. From what I seen of Tarasenko's defensive game, there is no chance he will play many minutes under Hitchcock without a massive learning curve. Blues fan's can scorn at Filitov all they want but Hitchcock isn't Russian friendly.

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10-09-2012, 10:50 PM
  #97
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That is actually a valid point for Europeans coming to a new league. From what I seen of Tarasenko's defensive game, there is no chance he will play many minutes under Hitchcock without a massive learning curve. Blues fan's can scorn at Filitov all they want but Hitchcock isn't Russian friendly.
Hitchcock has already told the media his plans are to run Tarasenko with McDonald and Steen for as long as all 3 are healthy whenever the season starts. AKA, he is putting him with the 2 guys who led our team in Points Per Game last year.

Yep, he sure does hate that Tarasenko.

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10-09-2012, 10:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Novacain View Post
Hitchcock has already told the media his plans are to run Tarasenko with McDonald and Steen for as long as all 3 are healthy whenever the season starts. AKA, he is putting him with the 2 guys who led our team in Points Per Game last year.

Yep, he sure does hate that Tarasenko.
Plans are easily changed, he plans on playing him with Steen to cover his liabilities. That would seem to be the 2nd line behind Backes. I didn't say he hates Tarensenko but he will early if the kids doesn't improve defense. Hitchcock won't stand for that.

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10-09-2012, 10:55 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by Yuri the Fury View Post
At 22, Henrique was the main reason with Kovalchuk why Devils made it to the SCF. The kid proved already that he may be there in the crunch time for a few more times. Also Henrique is a center playing top line minutes, and he'll be a RFA for 5 years again. Adam means 2-way plays at the NHL level. His offense is good, but his defense is just great. He kills penalties like a boss, takes pretty effective PP time, he can play wing perfectly also, his skating skills and backhander shot are close to elite. He's strong and doesn't fear anyone, ask Iginla.


Tarasensko is serioulsy over-evaluated here. No way in the real world a talented but totally unproven winger, that hasn't even play a single game in the NHL is worth a 22 years old top line center. STL being optimistic about his future is understandable, and I'm personally a fan of his, but Tarasenko is not expected to be the next Gordie Howe neither iIrc.


STL would've to start with Tarasenko+3rd to get Lamoriello's attention. And as much as I'd love to see Tarasenko with Kovalchuk in red&black, I really do, Henrique is already too important in the Devils system. All around 2-way centers under RFA contract for 5 seasons again would be a great significance anywhere anyway.
It's amusing how you paint one very good season in the NHL as a proven player.

You are no doubt aware of how many stories there are of these.

Henrique deserves more attention than he gets, but less from you. It would be well within the realm of possibility to say you are over-valuing Henrique. The bolded part explains why you are over-valuing him.

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10-09-2012, 10:55 PM
  #100
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Originally Posted by Jason MacIsaac View Post
Plans are easily changed, he plans on playing him with Steen to cover his liabilities. That would see to be the 2nd line behind Backes. I didn't say he hates Tarensenko but he will early if the kids doesn't improve defense. Hitchcock won't stand for that.
No.1 Tarasenko isn't that bad defensivly

No.2 The Blues are not putting Andy McDonald on a line that isn't going to get scoring minutes.

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