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10 Years Ago Today...

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10-09-2012, 09:42 PM
  #26
Ron
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Originally Posted by Bandit View Post
Why are we bickering about this? 10 years ago the Kings sucked. Today we are Stanley Cup Champions...

The guy is not a Kings fan. He is just here to stir the pot.

And I note...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ag925 View Post
The Kings were a ****ing joke before Gretzky.
That statement is just meant to bait. But I am going to let it go, considering the source.

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10-09-2012, 10:21 PM
  #27
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I'm sorry but the Kings were neglected by Jerry Buss. They didn't play to sellout crowds, and they were not a big draw in town until Gretzky's arrival.

They were terribly mismanaged throughout the JKC era, selling the future for washed up players like Steve Shutt and Rick Martin. Must I remind you of all of the first round picks they squandered away? And they gave them away for crap.

Look at Dionne's career and how he demanded to be dealt because the situation in LA was so bad. He never enjoyed any playoff success as a result of being a King. Can you name any goalies that the Kings developed throughout their history? Or all of the young talent they got rid of like Murphy, Galley, Billy Smith. The moment they trade Butch Goring, the Isles fortunes turn around and the Kings got worse.

Prior to 2012, the best years this team had was with Gretzky. Just look up at the Kings banners at Staples Center. They didn't come from the pre-Gretzky era.

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10-10-2012, 12:04 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust View Post
I'm sorry but the Kings were neglected by Jerry Buss. They didn't play to sellout crowds, and they were not a big draw in town until Gretzky's arrival.

They were terribly mismanaged throughout the JKC era, selling the future for washed up players like Steve Shutt and Rick Martin. Must I remind you of all of the first round picks they squandered away? And they gave them away for crap.

Look at Dionne's career and how he demanded to be dealt because the situation in LA was so bad. He never enjoyed any playoff success as a result of being a King. Can you name any goalies that the Kings developed throughout their history? Or all of the young talent they got rid of like Murphy, Galley, Billy Smith. The moment they trade Butch Goring, the Isles fortunes turn around and the Kings got worse.

Prior to 2012, the best years this team had was with Gretzky. Just look up at the Kings banners at Staples Center. They didn't come from the pre-Gretzky era.
I'm going to beg to differ with you.

It was not neglect, it was incompetence. The GMs were trying, they were just very bad at their job.

Look, I lived through the pain. Please do not remind me how we gave away a Stanley Cup winning team in the 1980s. The Islanders repeatedly ripped us off of our fine talent and turned it into four Cups. I want to savor this one, and not be reminded of the pain of the late '70s and early '80s.

It was pure incompetence and lack of knowledge of the hockey people put in place. It was not neglect. Just stupidity. And I do remember very well at the time how painful it was...I was in my early 20s then and I felt I could run the team better with zero experience.

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10-10-2012, 12:26 AM
  #29
Ziggy Stardust
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JKC was a penny pincher (Bob Miller's book shares plenty of anecdotes about him) and Jerry Buss certainly was incompetent when it came to hockey, as was the staff he employed. He ended up with the Kings because he had to take them as part of the package to purchase the Lakers and the Forum. They were an afterthought.

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10-10-2012, 01:01 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Ron View Post
I dunno...I was a Kings fan for almost 21 years before he arrived on the scene, and I always considered myself cool.

Well, it's not even cool anymore to say you've been a Kings fan for a long time since you'll just be accused of being a liar and bandwagoner.

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10-10-2012, 01:15 AM
  #31
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Finally found a picture of...a picture I have in storage:


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Old
10-10-2012, 05:07 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Ag925 View Post
Yeah, I'm sure he was behind Paul Coffey, Bernie Nicholls, and Mike Krushenyski, among others, being dealt.

And I'm also sure Wayne loved management bringing in hacks like Brent Grieve and John Slaney.

And for good masure...
We also can't overlook Gretzky bringing in guys like Grant Fuhr.

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Old
10-10-2012, 07:35 AM
  #33
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We also can't overlook Gretzky bringing in guys like Grant Fuhr.
This, Gretzky wanted to play with his friends and drinking buddies. McNall points out numerous times in his book that Gretzky was heavily involved in signings and deals that were made.

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Old
10-10-2012, 09:59 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Bandit View Post
Why are we bickering about this? 10 years ago the Kings sucked. Today we are Stanley Cup Champions...

They absolutely did not suck going into the 2002-03 season. That was supposed to be the year the LAPD line finally gelled and the club followed up some underdog playoff thrills they'd delivered the previous seasons (Stunner on Staples in 01, the tight 7 game loss to a stacked Avs team in 02). and upstarts like A. Frolov were to begin bringing the second line scoring touch.

There was a lot of optimism in the building that day.

Then the injuries started...

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Old
10-10-2012, 10:03 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Ag925 View Post
Let's try this again...

As a Los Angeles King ('88-'96):

(1) Hart Trophy
(3) Art Ross Trophies
(1) 1st Team All-Star selection
(3) 2nd Team All-Star selctions

Regular Season
539 GP - 246 G - 672 A - 918 PTS

Playoffs
60 GP - 29 G - 65 A - 94 PTS


He may not be your favorite King because maybe you're still asshurt that he didn't bring a Stanley Cup to Los Angeles, but he certainly has the greatest Kings career.
So we're not allowed a different point of view than you?

Stats wise, yes, Gretzky was awesome. This isn't baseball though, and this game isn't driven on pure stats analysis.

I view the greatest King as someone I'd symbolize as being the face of the franchise, the image that comes to mind when I think of the history and legacy of the LA Kings. That's NOT Wayne Greatzky, even if he was the reason I became a Kings fan in the first place. To me, that's likely Dave Taylor or Luc Robitaille, with a leaning towards Robitaille. Dionne, Vachon come in there as well. And btw, Herby, you're right about Doughty. Completely forgot him, thanks for pointing him out. He very well could be the greatest of them all in the future.

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Originally Posted by Ag925 View Post
Don't give me the Linden vs. Bure speech. It's clear as day who owns the greatest on-ice Kings career.

The franchise had just 5 winning seasons and just 4 playoff seres wins through its first 21 years of existence.

In what amounted to less than 7 regular seasons-worth of play, Gretzky led the Kings to 4 winning seasons, 6 playoff series wins and the franchise's first Stanley Cup finals appearance, despite the likes of Sam McMaster, Barry Melrose and Nick Beverley screwing things up every way imaginable.
If you want to use 'career' then why does Gretzky's nearly 8 seasons (not 7 as you stated) outweigh Dionne's almost 12 seasons, or Robitaille's 14 seasons? If you want to go on a purely 5 year span (most of Wayne's success came from 1988-1989 to 1993-1994) then I'd agree with you. As a career though? No, I go with someone else.

Btw, if you are using 'regular-seasons worth of play' as your measuring stick, then don't count his playoff success. Playofss and regular season are to totally different things, as the 8th seeded Kings this year showed everyone.

Additionally, Sam McMaster was Kings GM from 1994-1997, and the Kings never even made the playoffs those years, so Gretzky didn't lead the Kings to anything over his incompetence. As for Melrose and Beverley, while they aren't my favorite Head Coach and GM, they did lead the team to a cup finals appearance, and that should be given far more credit than you do. If it was simply Gretzky carrying the Kings to the playoffs and beyond, then why did it take Mario Lemieux five years before he even made the playoffs? It takes a team to do what Gretzky did, not Gretzky alone.

And once again, you give him credit for overcoming imcompetence (Melrose and Beverley in this case) to achieve his results when three of those four winning seasons came before Melrose and Beverley were even with the Kings in those roles.

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Originally Posted by Ag925 View Post

Pretty jarring how little gratitude Kings fans today have for Wayne.
I don't see anyone in this thread showing little gratitude for Wayne Gretzky. We all acknowledge he's a top 5-10 King of all-time, and to some he likely goes as high as number 4 behind Dionne, Taylor and Robitaille. That's not disrespect, that's just people own opinions. No one is attacking you for thinking he's the best all-time King, but just because we don't share that opinion doesn't mean we have 'little gratitude' for Wayne Gretzky. It's ok to have a different opinion than you.

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Old
10-11-2012, 12:07 PM
  #36
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The guy is not a Kings fan. He is just here to stir the pot.
... and in a locked out world, that's probably ok.

In my view, how can the greatest player in NHL history not be considered the greatest player in Kings history?

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10-11-2012, 12:48 PM
  #37
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I was around pre 99 and there was a certain amount of cool that went with being a Kings fan back then imo. The Forum was a great old style arena as far as they go and was always a fun place to be during a Kings game.

We had a good young team just prior to making the 99 deal too. That said you make the 99 deal without a doubt. Meh, it was allot of fun being a Kings fan back then and it hasn't really changed much since. I have recorded a bunch of games on the old KRLA radio station in L.A. from when I was a Kid, KLAC too. It was Bob and Nick together calling the games and was so much fun to listen too.

On a 99 note, before the Oilers joined the league there were teams that wanted to grab a bunch of their kids. It was rumored at the time that we were trying to get 99 before he ever played a single game in the NHL.

Imagine having him from the get go along with Luc, Jimmy C, Steve D Bernie Nic etc.

Oh for what could have been.

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Old
10-11-2012, 01:10 PM
  #38
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I don't know why you guys would take an arbitrary comment so personally. It reminds me of when I was in Junior High and later in High School when kinds would resent other kids because they liked Metal before Metal was cool and later Punk before Punk was cool. Who really cares? Lets all watch this ice melt... and this paint dry. Actually, lets sniff the paint THEN watch the ice melt. mmmmmmm!

Oh yeah, and btw, the Kings are the Stanley Cup champions until further notice!

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Old
10-11-2012, 01:11 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ag925 View Post
Let's try this again...

As a Los Angeles King ('88-'96):

(1) Hart Trophy
(3) Art Ross Trophies
(1) 1st Team All-Star selection
(3) 2nd Team All-Star selctions

Regular Season
539 GP - 246 G - 672 A - 918 PTS

Playoffs
60 GP - 29 G - 65 A - 94 PTS


He may not be your favorite King because maybe you're still asshurt that he didn't bring a Stanley Cup to Los Angeles, but he certainly has the greatest Kings career.
Not sure who you are, or how old you are but having that many points alone doesn't mean he was the greatest King ever or even had the greatest King season, I pretty sure that goes to the Men in Black on the current roster who just gave us the greatest King season period, and as excited as we all were to get him, he was always still THAT guy who skated away from the scrum in the "Miracle" and do not tell me he was under orders, I believe no one wanted dionne,taylor or anyone else in the box either but they were never going to let their team mates down but skating away, ALWAYS admired 99, still think he was the greatest player of his time, but not the greatest King, Marcel Dionne has more points, Luc more goals, and many had more heart so thanks for playing now go away

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Old
10-11-2012, 01:14 PM
  #40
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... and in a locked out world, that's probably ok.

In my view, how can the greatest player in NHL history not be considered the greatest player in Kings history?
So by that line of thinking, Wayne Gretzky is a greater St. Louis Blue than Brett Hull?

If you look at career versus career, Gretzky is greater than anyone who wore a Kings sweater. If you look at just the time he spent as a King versus the time others have spent as a King, not nearly as clear cut.

Also, I don't view Gretzky as the greatest player in NHL history, even though he's my favorite all-time player. I'd put him at third, behind Mario Lemieux and Bobby Orr (haven't decided whose first or second though).

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Old
10-11-2012, 01:29 PM
  #41
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Both Dionne and Robitaille had better King careers. The only thing Gretzky has is highest points per game and a couple of trophies he was handed because of his name given the stage of his career. I like Gretzky, but just because he was the biggest name to play for us, doesn't mean he was the greatest King or the Kings owe their existence/identity to him.

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10-11-2012, 02:36 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by kingsfan View Post
So by that line of thinking, Wayne Gretzky is a greater St. Louis Blue than Brett Hull?

If you look at career versus career, Gretzky is greater than anyone who wore a Kings sweater. If you look at just the time he spent as a King versus the time others have spent as a King, not nearly as clear cut.

Also, I don't view Gretzky as the greatest player in NHL history, even though he's my favorite all-time player. I'd put him at third, behind Mario Lemieux and Bobby Orr (haven't decided whose first or second though).
Super Mario is my number one.


Lemieux was down right dominate.

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Old
10-11-2012, 03:02 PM
  #43
Butch 19
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Originally Posted by kingsfan View Post
So by that line of thinking, Wayne Gretzky is a greater St. Louis Blue than Brett Hull?

If you look at career versus career, Gretzky is greater than anyone who wore a Kings sweater. If you look at just the time he spent as a King versus the time others have spent as a King, not nearly as clear cut.

Also, I don't view Gretzky as the greatest player in NHL history, even though he's my favorite all-time player. I'd put him at third, behind Mario Lemieux and Bobby Orr (haven't decided whose first or second though).
While you're at it, why not say I think he was the greatest Ranger too?

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Old
10-11-2012, 03:55 PM
  #44
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While you're at it, why not say I think he was the greatest Ranger too?
He IS the greatest player to ever play in Indianapolis.

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Old
10-12-2012, 08:54 AM
  #45
kingsfan
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While you're at it, why not say I think he was the greatest Ranger too?
You said it, not me. Just because he's the greatest player in NHL history (as you stated) does not equate to him being the greatest King.

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