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Seabrook and Yandle

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Old
10-09-2012, 03:35 PM
  #26
DesertDawg
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Originally Posted by Foppa2118 View Post
Not that I necessarily want to trade Stastny, but would Stastny and Barrie for Yandle and a 2nd be enough for Phoenix fans?
Barrie? and to include a 2nd? Yandle has more value to the Coyotes than Stastny would have, and Barrie wouldn't have any real value, being lost in the depth chart!

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10-10-2012, 09:55 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by OzzyFan View Post
Probably closer to Grabner, MacDonald, + 1st rounder for just Yandle, and that's if the Yotes even want Grabner, who is pretty much the same player Boedker projects to be(but Boedker is more physical).
Grabner's kind of an enigma. He has the ability to be a 40-goal scorer, he just struggles with finishing. He probably had close to or the same amount of scoring chances/breakaways last year as he did the year before, but for some reason or another he couldn't put the puck in the net.

I do like Boedker, I just don't see him becoming the goal scorer that Grabner was/is/will-be? Grabner also is a great PKer. He's gotten a ton of SH chances, to the point where you can see the opposing team letting up a bit to account for his speed.

Either way, if he isn't a guy you'd be interested in I'm not sure what other wingers the Isles would have that could replace him. I don't see Okposo or Bailey going anywhere. Moulson is tied with Tavares. I could see Nino as a possibility, but I think the Isles still see him as a big part of their future. Kabanov could be an option for you guys. Anyone else though I don't think have much value.

As far as MacDonald goes, I'd consider including him, but I was under the impression that you are completely loaded with defenseman(even if Yandle is traded away)? I could see why you'd want him though, he's a solid #3 or 4 on a great contract, has some offensive upside as well(not much, but enough to make him considered one of the top 2nd-pairing guys in the game if he taps into it). If it came down to it, I think I'd prefer to hang onto him. Only because most of our prospects are offensive-minded guys, and if Yandle came over we'd be short on defensive-minded D-men.

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10-10-2012, 10:28 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Wingsfan2965 View Post
Good God Yandle gets overpriced on a regular basis.
Maloney turned down Gagner + Paajarvi for Yandle at the draft in June, right? So Yandle's value is north of that.

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Old
10-10-2012, 10:52 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by blinkman360 View Post
Grabner's kind of an enigma. He has the ability to be a 40-goal scorer, he just struggles with finishing. He probably had close to or the same amount of scoring chances/breakaways last year as he did the year before, but for some reason or another he couldn't put the puck in the net.

I do like Boedker, I just don't see him becoming the goal scorer that Grabner was/is/will-be? Grabner also is a great PKer. He's gotten a ton of SH chances, to the point where you can see the opposing team letting up a bit to account for his speed.

Either way, if he isn't a guy you'd be interested in I'm not sure what other wingers the Isles would have that could replace him. I don't see Okposo or Bailey going anywhere. Moulson is tied with Tavares. I could see Nino as a possibility, but I think the Isles still see him as a big part of their future. Kabanov could be an option for you guys. Anyone else though I don't think have much value.

As far as MacDonald goes, I'd consider including him, but I was under the impression that you are completely loaded with defenseman(even if Yandle is traded away)? I could see why you'd want him though, he's a solid #3 or 4 on a great contract, has some offensive upside as well(not much, but enough to make him considered one of the top 2nd-pairing guys in the game if he taps into it). If it came down to it, I think I'd prefer to hang onto him. Only because most of our prospects are offensive-minded guys, and if Yandle came over we'd be short on defensive-minded D-men.
That's fair on Grabner. I said Grabner was the guy people think Boedker will become, he may not be as fast as Grabner but Boedker brings a physical element that Grabner doesn't and if the playoffs are any indication of Boedker taking the next step, then he will be closer to grabner's level(which is a great checking winger) than people think in the goalscoring and defensive department(maybe not on the same level, but right under there wouldn't surprise me). Yeah, I'd say on the high-end grabner has 30goal potential and lots of breakaway chances, but eventually if d-men/forwards get the game plan on him, he realistically should be around a 17-25goal/yr guy. It's 1 thing to have the skills, it's another to be able to do be able to what you do with the competition knowing it's coming if that makes sense. I'm not even a Yotes fan either and Boedker extremely impressed me in the playoffs. I know that Grabner wouldn't be a 1st line forward for the Yotes, and they are full of middle 6 2-way/checking forwards so that's why I'm not sure they'd want him. But he would probably slot in nicely on the 2nd or 3rd line somewhere, so maybe. I just don't think they might value Grabner as much as they would a proven 20-25goal/yr scorer, not one who's production dropped noticably last year(not that it might not go up).

I think the Yotes would want a younger mid-pairish d-man back for depth/safety. They lost Aucoin and Roszival this offseason, Morris is 34, and schlemko/rublad may still be shotty and I'm not sure where Gormley is, but there defense could look ugly as hell with no d-man coming back and Yandle leaving, likely something like:

Klesla/OEL
Morris/Schlemko
Stone/not-sure-ready Rublad/Gormley

Too much unprovenness to count on for a recent playoff "winner".

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Old
10-10-2012, 11:33 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by OzzyFan View Post
That's fair on Grabner. I said Grabner was the guy people think Boedker will become, he may not be as fast as Grabner but Boedker brings a physical element that Grabner doesn't and if the playoffs are any indication of Boedker taking the next step, then he will be closer to grabner's level(which is a great checking winger) than people think in the goalscoring and defensive department(maybe not on the same level, but right under there wouldn't surprise me). Yeah, I'd say on the high-end grabner has 30goal potential and lots of breakaway chances, but eventually if d-men/forwards get the game plan on him, he realistically should be around a 17-25goal/yr guy. It's 1 thing to have the skills, it's another to be able to do be able to what you do with the competition knowing it's coming if that makes sense. I'm not even a Yotes fan either and Boedker extremely impressed me in the playoffs. I know that Grabner wouldn't be a 1st line forward for the Yotes, and they are full of middle 6 2-way/checking forwards so that's why I'm not sure they'd want him. But he would probably slot in nicely on the 2nd or 3rd line somewhere, so maybe. I just don't think they might value Grabner as much as they would a proven 20-25goal/yr scorer, not one who's production dropped noticably last year(not that it might not go up).

I think the Yotes would want a younger mid-pairish d-man back for depth/safety. They lost Aucoin and Roszival this offseason, Morris is 34, and schlemko/rublad may still be shotty and I'm not sure where Gormley is, but there defense could look ugly as hell with no d-man coming back and Yandle leaving, likely something like:

Klesla/OEL
Morris/Schlemko
Stone/not-sure-ready Rublad/Gormley

Too much unprovenness to count on for a recent playoff "winner".
You forgot Zbynek Michalek though so it wouldn't look as ugly as you think

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10-10-2012, 11:37 AM
  #31
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Baertchsi+Gio?
Lol the difference between Gio and Yandle is not one of the games top 10 prospects.

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Old
10-10-2012, 11:47 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by RedWings19405 View Post
Seabrook would and should cost a lot more than Yandle in my opinion. Seabrook can play in all situations and is great in his own zone while chipping in a little less offensively than Yandle. But still Seabrook is a true #1 D-man and Yandle is #1/2 not the same caliber of player.
Props to you. I can't remember the last time a fan of another team has actually come up with the correct judgment of how good Seabrook is.

As for this thread, does it really matter? I know Yandle's name was apparently tossed around at the deadline "for the right price," but Seabrook is going nowhere. Chicago needs him for a ton of different reasons.

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Old
10-10-2012, 11:48 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by OzzyFan View Post
That's fair on Grabner. I said Grabner was the guy people think Boedker will become, he may not be as fast as Grabner but Boedker brings a physical element that Grabner doesn't and if the playoffs are any indication of Boedker taking the next step, then he will be closer to grabner's level(which is a great checking winger) than people think in the goalscoring and defensive department(maybe not on the same level, but right under there wouldn't surprise me). Yeah, I'd say on the high-end grabner has 30goal potential and lots of breakaway chances, but eventually if d-men/forwards get the game plan on him, he realistically should be around a 17-25goal/yr guy. It's 1 thing to have the skills, it's another to be able to do be able to what you do with the competition knowing it's coming if that makes sense. I'm not even a Yotes fan either and Boedker extremely impressed me in the playoffs. I know that Grabner wouldn't be a 1st line forward for the Yotes, and they are full of middle 6 2-way/checking forwards so that's why I'm not sure they'd want him. But he would probably slot in nicely on the 2nd or 3rd line somewhere, so maybe. I just don't think they might value Grabner as much as they would a proven 20-25goal/yr scorer, not one who's production dropped noticably last year(not that it might not go up).

I think the Yotes would want a younger mid-pairish d-man back for depth/safety. They lost Aucoin and Roszival this offseason, Morris is 34, and schlemko/rublad may still be shotty and I'm not sure where Gormley is, but there defense could look ugly as hell with no d-man coming back and Yandle leaving, likely something like:

Klesla/OEL
Morris/Schlemko
Stone/not-sure-ready Rublad/Gormley

Too much unprovenness to count on for a recent playoff "winner".
Honestly, I think Grabner's floor is 20-goals. Considering how frustrated Isles fans were with him, and the fact that he still managed to pot 20 says something, IMO. I don't see him consistently putting up 34 like he did in 2010-11, but I'd say somewhere in the middle is probably where he'll even out. Something like 26-28 goals per year. Maybe a season here and there where he comes up short or exceeds that.

That said, I still like Rundblad as a backup option. Not sure what it would take, but he's definitely a guy I've had my eye on since that '09 draft. I think he'd be a good fit on the Island.

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Old
10-10-2012, 11:51 AM
  #34
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Barrie? and to include a 2nd? Yandle has more value to the Coyotes than Stastny would have, and Barrie wouldn't have any real value, being lost in the depth chart!
Barrie's a righty, you guys need righties, neh? I suppose you already have a Barrie-type in Rundblad...

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10-10-2012, 12:10 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by korpedo View Post
You forgot Zbynek Michalek though so it wouldn't look as ugly as you think
Thanks. I completely forgot the Pens unloaded him for pretty much nothing to the Yotes. That's makes the defense look a lot lot better.

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10-10-2012, 12:13 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by InfinityIggy View Post
Lol the difference between Gio and Yandle is not one of the games top 10 prospects.
I don't know if Baertchsi's a top 10 prospect. He looks really promising, but a 5gm nhl sample is meaningless and he was 13th overall in his draft. If I had to really make a list of top prospects, I think Baertchsi would be in the 10-20 range honestly.

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10-10-2012, 01:32 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by OzzyFan View Post
I don't know if Baertchsi's a top 10 prospect. He looks really promising, but a 5gm nhl sample is meaningless and he was 13th overall in his draft. If I had to really make a list of top prospects, I think Baertchsi would be in the 10-20 range honestly.
He's good enough to not be worth giving up for Yandle.

I fail to understand why in the hell everybody highly values a guy who can't hit, barely blocks shots, turns over pucks commonly, and doesn't kill penalties.

He's good offensively. That's about it.

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10-10-2012, 02:40 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by OzzyFan View Post
I don't know if Baertchsi's a top 10 prospect. He looks really promising, but a 5gm nhl sample is meaningless and he was 13th overall in his draft. If I had to really make a list of top prospects, I think Baertchsi would be in the 10-20 range honestly.
To the bolded I agree, which is why you should look at his WHL numbers. What does draft position have to do with anything? Strome was 5th and most people would take Bart over him if you asked today.

Give me 10 prospects who are clearly better.

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10-10-2012, 03:58 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by InfinityIggy View Post
To the bolded I agree, which is why you should look at his WHL numbers. What does draft position have to do with anything? Strome was 5th and most people would take Bart over him if you asked today.

Give me 10 prospects who are clearly better.
For starters, 1 pro scout I know throws him at 20th overall, and that's Corey Pronman: http://www.hockeyprospectus.com/arti...articleid=1381

10 prospects easily better than Bart(in no order):
1-Yakupov
2-Grigorenko
3-Huberdeau
4-Ryan Murray
5-Ryan Murphy
6-Dougie Hamilton
7-Dumba
8-Justin Schultz
9-Galchenyuk
10-Strome (similar offensively, bigger and said to be a better 2-way player)
Possibly Gormley, Ryan Ellis, Rielly, Erixon, and personally I'm high on Oleksiak. You can't teach size and he's got huge potential.

Ultimately, all 1st line center or #1 d-man ceiling players, it's just something I don't think you are gonna see a 5'11'' 185lbs Bart be, not to mention he's not touted as that kind of player honestly because of his defense and size.

Yeah, he had a great season in the whl last year, but he was 1yr post draft and niederreiter put up "similar" numbers to him in his last whl year and look how crappy he's done this past season, niederreiter was a crappy 4th liner last year. Junior numbers don't mean crap until the player has done something in the nhl, just ask anybody or any nhl bust.

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Old
10-10-2012, 04:10 PM
  #40
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I wouldn't put Dumba or Schultz over him yet, but I would put Tarasenko and Kuznetsov over him pretty easily.

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10-10-2012, 04:25 PM
  #41
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Seems that the hype Schultz got during free agency has made him a bit overrated...

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10-10-2012, 04:32 PM
  #42
Vladys Gumption
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Originally Posted by Leaffan16 View Post
Baertchsi+Gio?
From an outside perspective this is a solid offer.

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10-10-2012, 04:35 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by OzzyFan View Post
For starters, 1 pro scout I know throws him at 20th overall, and that's Corey Pronman: http://www.hockeyprospectus.com/arti...articleid=1381

10 prospects easily better than Bart(in no order):
1-Yakupov
2-Grigorenko
3-Huberdeau
4-Ryan Murray
5-Ryan Murphy
6-Dougie Hamilton
7-Dumba
8-Justin Schultz
9-Galchenyuk
10-Strome (similar offensively, bigger and said to be a better 2-way player)
Possibly Gormley, Ryan Ellis, Rielly, Erixon, and personally I'm high on Oleksiak. You can't teach size and he's got huge potential.

Ultimately, all 1st line center or #1 d-man ceiling players, it's just something I don't think you are gonna see a 5'11'' 185lbs Bart be, not to mention he's not touted as that kind of player honestly because of his defense and size.

Yeah, he had a great season in the whl last year, but he was 1yr post draft and niederreiter put up "similar" numbers to him in his last whl year and look how crappy he's done this past season, niederreiter was a crappy 4th liner last year. Junior numbers don't mean crap until the player has done something in the nhl, just ask anybody or any nhl bust.
Granlund, Kuznetsov, and Tarasenko so hello. All three should easily make this list over Dumba, Murphy and Schultz.

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