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are neck guards and wrist guards worth the money?

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Old
10-10-2012, 12:55 PM
  #51
TieClark
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Originally Posted by tarheelhockey View Post
I think you're really misrepresenting the choices people make.

For example, I wear a cage and wouldn't even consider using a half-shield. I don't even notice the cage and the risk of facial injury isn't worth ditching it. I'm a grown man and couldn't care less whether it looks cool.

On the other hand, I actually own a neck guard that never leaves my bag. I tried it for one or two stick-and-puck sessions and it was nothing but irritating. I don't like the feeling of something that close around my neck, let alone moving and chafing. Ditching it had nothing to do with appearances or macho attitude.

Considering I wear a full cage, and the angles involved, someone would basically have to stomp on my neck while I'm lying face-up on the ice in order to get a skate between my cage and the collar of my jersey. The chances of that happening are so low that if they really bothered me, I'd probably find a safer sport in the first place.
I think you've missed the point however that they're mandatory all throughout minor hockey. Similar to a cage, if you're already used to it.. why ditch it? It's just added protection that you're used to wearing all the time.

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Originally Posted by cptjeff View Post
An asteroid hitting your house could kill you. Better build a giant steel dome!

Seriously, the odds of you ever getting hit in the throat by a skate- the one injury a neck guard will really protect against, are astronomical. You can't guard against every risk, and I choose to accept that. The risk of that particular injury is tiny, and there are still plenty of other ways to die that are much more likely- like getting slammed headfirst into the boards. Hit it the wrong way, and no matter what protective gear you're wearing, you could break your neck and that's it. You could get bumped at a really unfortunate moment and hit your head on a stanchion. Those are much more significant risks, and you can't really make them go away.


Though this is really, at its root, a problem with our minds. Human brains are actually really, really crappy at evaluating risk. We worry about big, flashy risks, even when the odds of them happening are monumentally small. Think about cars versus planes for a minute. Most people think about air travel as less safe than driving, because you see big, scary pictures when something does happen. The human brain responds to that, but when something happens much more regularly on a smaller scale, we don't judge it as a significant threat.

But if you look at the numbers... about one in 6,800 drivers dies each year. If you fly, that number becomes one in 1.16 million. The riskiest part of any flight is driving to the airport, but survey people, and you'll find that, if they fear any part of the trip, it's the flight itself. Perception versus reality. Our brains default to judging the probability of a risk based on how bad the potential outcome is, but as any insurance adjuster could tell you, that's a really, really, really crappy way to evaluate risk.
You'd have a point if the "protection" wasn't a very small piece of material. If it was for example a neck brace that hindered your movement I can see your point.

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10-10-2012, 01:07 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by 96 View Post
Because they are uncomfortable and look stupid.
This and no other reason.

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10-10-2012, 01:11 PM
  #53
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I also don't wear full pads and a helmet when I go skate around the pond with my kid. I'm a daredevil like that.

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10-10-2012, 03:10 PM
  #54
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I don't wear a neckguard, sure something could happen, but it is probably more likely to get seriously injured from being hit from behind or some other way.

Do you take a parachute with you when you fly somewhere in case the plane crashes?

You are more likely to die driving to/from the rink than on the rink I would think.

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10-10-2012, 03:51 PM
  #55
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Put it this way, its cheap and protects against the tiny risk of injury. I've found them quite comfortable personally.

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10-10-2012, 04:19 PM
  #56
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Don't buy a neck guard that chokes you. If it does, then it's too small, or you accidentally packed your choker for your S&M later with the wife.

I've never noticed a neck guard unless it was too tight. However you're more likely to get hit in the throat with a puck than a skate. A neck guard won't really help you then.

Wrist guards I'd never get because they're not needed.

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10-10-2012, 05:35 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by 96 View Post
Because they are uncomfortable and look stupid.
Same reasons I don't wear a seat belt.

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10-10-2012, 05:47 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by cptjeff View Post
An asteroid hitting your house could kill you. Better build a giant steel dome!

Seriously, the odds of you ever getting hit in the throat by a skate- the one injury a neck guard will really protect against, are astronomical.
And yet I can think of two NHLers who almost died from a skate a neck guard would protect against.

I was once hit in the neck by the skate of a falling player, and I could hear the blade scrape against my neck quard. I was happy it was there.

It's a mild discomfort you'd get used to.

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10-10-2012, 06:27 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Dylbot View Post
Same reasons I don't wear a seat belt.
Tongue in cheek?

But if you didn't wear a seatbelt, you'd also be hazardous to others due to your body flying as a projectile. Not wearing a neckguard is only a risk the non-wearer.

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10-10-2012, 07:03 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Dylbot View Post
And yet I can think of two NHLers who almost died from a skate a neck guard would protect against.

I was once hit in the neck by the skate of a falling player, and I could hear the blade scrape against my neck quard. I was happy it was there.

It's a mild discomfort you'd get used to.
How many NHL games have there been in the last 25 years with those two incidents? Maybe 1200 games per season * 25 seasons * 40 players = 1,200,000. So 1 in 600,000 odds of that happening = 0.00017% change of it happening?

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10-10-2012, 07:46 PM
  #61
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here's is the thing the way I see it. the little fabric ones with some padding are not going to save you from a skate blade. I had a guy fall next to me near the net, his heel came up and cut my thigh. real good cut. the thing is it went through my pants (tackla's) just missed the thigh pad. through the hockey sock underneath. the old knit style ones, and the compression pants I had on underneath all that stuff.those flismy neck guards my protect you from a grazing wound but what happened to Zednik I doubt it would have stopped that skate. I would think that a kevlar one might lesson the injury though.

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10-10-2012, 07:47 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Jarick View Post
How many NHL games have there been in the last 25 years with those two incidents? Maybe 1200 games per season * 25 seasons * 40 players = 1,200,000. So 1 in 600,000 odds of that happening = 0.00017% change of it happening?
Don't forget that the NHL is full contact where bodies go flying at high speeds.

How do you factor the slow, no checking beer league into that?

0.000017%, 0.0000017%?

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10-10-2012, 11:44 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Jarick View Post
How many NHL games have there been in the last 25 years with those two incidents? Maybe 1200 games per season * 25 seasons * 40 players = 1,200,000. So 1 in 600,000 odds of that happening = 0.00017% change of it happening?
Now factor in the thousands of games someone will play in their life and the fact that they're not playing for a contract or an indorsment based on how they look.

It's still not a good bet that you'll ever really need it, but why take the chance when there IS a risk or cataclysmic injury.


Last edited by Dylbot: 10-10-2012 at 11:56 PM.
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Old
10-10-2012, 11:47 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by rinkrat22 View Post
here's is the thing the way I see it. the little fabric ones with some padding are not going to save you from a skate blade. I had a guy fall next to me near the net, his heel came up and cut my thigh. real good cut. the thing is it went through my pants (tackla's) just missed the thigh pad. through the hockey sock underneath. the old knit style ones, and the compression pants I had on underneath all that stuff.those flismy neck guards my protect you from a grazing wound but what happened to Zednik I doubt it would have stopped that skate. I would think that a kevlar one might lesson the injury though.
Have you ever seen a neck guard? Trust me, you're not cutting through it with a skate.

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10-10-2012, 11:53 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Cowbell232 View Post
Don't forget that the NHL is full contact where bodies go flying at high speeds.

How do you factor the slow, no checking beer league into that?

0.000017%, 0.0000017%?
Don't forget that both the Malarchuk and Zednik incidences essentially resulted from player falling down. That happens just as frequently in beer leagues, albeit at slower speeds.

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10-11-2012, 07:19 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by 96 View Post
Because they are uncomfortable and look stupid.
what looks stupid? right, cages and neck guards

is it a coincidence that this is the difference between kid and adult equip?

i bet when an ovechkin and all the other nhl players would wear a cage, nobody would call it stupid.

sure today it is still in our heads that looks stupid but i imagine when from now on all would wear cages in 10 years nobody would care / call it stupid

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10-11-2012, 07:43 AM
  #67
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Have you ever seen a neck guard? Trust me, you're not cutting through it with a skate.
yes I have, I have kids that play.

did you even read my post?

the thin foam ones aren't going to protect you from **** was my point.

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10-11-2012, 08:02 AM
  #68
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Originally Posted by rinkrat22 View Post
yes I have, I have kids that play.

did you even read my post?

the thin foam ones aren't going to protect you from **** was my point.
If they are certified, they will protect you from cuts but not impacts. You can't compare Kevlar and high density polyester with knit socks and a baselayer.

If a certified neckguard covers an area, that area will be protected from lacerations.

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10-11-2012, 08:23 AM
  #69
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It's not too funny or "stupid" when your friend is laying there gasping for breath with eyes darting around in confusion, no way to fix the problem and no one around who has an answer. Arms clutching at themselves and nothing occuring.

My friend was lucky and was able to breathe when he calmed down slightly but he ended up not being able to play for the rest of the season. This was a baseball to the throat at the University of Toledo. I've seen what an object can do to someones throat and not wearing something so simple that can keep you not just safe but alive is just silly.
neck guards dont potect from projectile damage, they are designed to prevent skate slashes to the neck. a slap shot impact to the neck isnt going to be lessened by a wearing a neck guard.

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10-11-2012, 08:25 AM
  #70
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Originally Posted by AIREAYE View Post
Tongue in cheek?

But if you didn't wear a seatbelt, you'd also be hazardous to others due to your body flying as a projectile. Not wearing a neckguard is only a risk the non-wearer.
unless someone got their throat slashed and their infected blood got in your eyes or something........................



yeah extremely remote

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10-11-2012, 09:54 AM
  #71
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Originally Posted by Dylbot View Post
Now factor in the thousands of games someone will play in their life and the fact that they're not playing for a contract or an indorsment based on how they look.

It's still not a good bet that you'll ever really need it, but why take the chance when there IS a risk or cataclysmic injury.
Life is calculated risks. I'm far more worried about concussions or heart attacks than I am a skate blade. The biggest risk in my league is heart attack. A couple guys have died and left behind their wives and young kids.

I get what you're saying. I've had the same argument with folks who wear visors...I don't get it. I've taken dozens of pucks and sticks to the cage. I've seen guys get sliced up and lose teeth wearing visors. That's the risk they want to take for the sake of comfort.

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10-11-2012, 10:31 AM
  #72
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Originally Posted by cptjeff View Post
Pretty much. Neckguards are uncomfortable, and the accidents they do prevent are freakishly rare. Would you you make it a pain to get to your car in the morning by installing a system to defend your house from astroids?

You're talking about inconveinencing yourself to defend against an accident so vanishinly rare that you're most likley going to go for decades or an entire lifetime playing hockey without it happening to you anyone you know. Statistically, it just doen't happen. I probably have better odds of winning the lottery, and certainly have better odds of being struck by lightning sometime in my life. But I'm not gonna wear a hat with a lightning rod on it, am I?

Contrast that with a visor or cage, which one person compared it to. I wear a cage. I'd estimate I get dinged on it with a stick or a puck every three games or so. Maybe one in three of those might cause some damage. One in 100 of those might come towards my eye. The odds of something happening to my face are pretty high. The odds of something taking out an eye, while fairly low on a game to game basis, are on a human scale. If I don't protect myself, maybe I expect something to hurt my eye once a decade or so. So I protect myself. With a blade to the neck, the odds are such that I wouldn't expect it to ever happen to me within ten lifetimes of playing hockey. So I don't feel the need to deal with the discomfort.
Your analogy is awful.

It's a $20 piece of equipment that has the 'inconvenience' of being slightly uncomfortable and taking five seconds to put on or take off. Not a complex system that inconveniences you every day just doing routine things around your house while costing upwards of several million dollars.

Yes, there is a point of diminishing returns. Doesn't mean we should exaggerate the downsides of wearing a neckguard.

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10-11-2012, 10:33 AM
  #73
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My two cents:

The chances of having your throat slit by a skate blade are about as slim as convincing someone on a message board that they should or should not wear a neck guard.

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10-11-2012, 02:51 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by AIREAYE View Post
If they are certified, they will protect you from cuts but not impacts. You can't compare Kevlar and high density polyester with knit socks and a baselayer.

If a certified neckguard covers an area, that area will be protected from lacerations.
since you are a rather knowledgable regular poster I'm not gonna be a dick. please go back and read my original post. I pretty much said what you are saying here. BTW my injury also sliced through my hockey pants. the material is pretty close to the density of the non kevlar neck guards.

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10-11-2012, 03:15 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by rinkrat22 View Post
since you are a rather knowledgable regular poster I'm not gonna be a dick. please go back and read my original post. I pretty much said what you are saying here. BTW my injury also sliced through my hockey pants. the material is pretty close to the density of the non kevlar neck guards.
You shouldn't be a dick anyways lol doesn't matter who you're speaking to. Doesn't get your point across any better.

I re-read your post a third time and still stand by what I've said in my post. If your neck is slashed across the guard with a blade, the neckguard, in design, SHOULD prevent a LACERATION. Odds are, if the impact is severe enough, there will still be injury; maybe bruising, but not to the extent of a laceration.

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