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Old
10-09-2012, 10:20 PM
  #51
mstad101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
I don't think the poster(I believe) you are referring to is an Oil fan.
I was speaking of two different posters. One commented Klefbom was better than Tanev who had an Oiler avatar, the other was one who thought a Raymond and Tanev for PRV.

Just outrageous in my mind to think this kid who has shown less than Raymond is worth more only based on potential. As far as I've seen, the kid skates fast bu doesn't score a ton. I see him right now as at best until further development he is a 3rd line LW on a sub par Playoff team.

Well considering Vancouver's needs are a 2nd line RW who can score and hold the puck on his stick, I just don't see the value in sending a very solid right side Dman we need more, and an expendable but good tweener LW.

If the Oil were more realistic and said maybe Klefbom and PRV for Raymond and Tanev. At least we'd be in the ballpark of a deal. As it stands not so much. Hence my comment

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Old
10-10-2012, 05:52 AM
  #52
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I am happy to trade Raymond because I think we need a setup man and he's more of a two-way speedster.

For value perspective, Raymond's most recent healthy season (09-10), is better than any season Sam Gagner has ever had (NOTE: Raymond played with a broken thumb in 10-11 because Samuelsson was also hurt and we couldn't lose both of them and for 11-12 he had a fractured vertebra)...If you compare his only healthy season to Sam's best years he has more points (53 vs 49) and more goals (25 vs 18) – note: Gagner’s totals aren’t from the same year. Raymond also kills penalties and has never been a minus player (while Gagner has been minus 4 of 5 years). Gagner probably has higher value because he's more proven but his peak to this point has been lower than Raymond's (especially considering his PP time etc.).

I recognize that Canucks fans dump on Raymond but it’s the same way a lot of people dump on Gagner, he's not the type of player they want in the slot he currently fills. Raymond's 5 on 5 contribution has been pretty solid and he's played through injury which has made his totals seem worse than he is. That's why Canucks coaching and management has constantly given him a chance while the fans haven't (I don't know how you get on a guy who is coming off a fractured vertebra).

I don't see the Canucks trading Raymond for PRV because PRV woudn't really bring anything to the table offensively that Raymond doesn't and wouldn't be able to bring the defensive game that Raymond has (save for one really bad play against Kopitar). If the Canucks were to trade Raymond, it would probably be for a guy like Gagner...but I think Edmonton needs Gagner even though they don't want to run with two small centres.

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Old
10-10-2012, 08:44 AM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mstad101 View Post
If the Oil were more realistic and said maybe Klefbom and PRV for Raymond and Tanev. At least we'd be in the ballpark of a deal. As it stands not so much. Hence my comment
Making that trade would be poor asset/cap management on the Oilers part. With respect to their potential and contracts, PRV and Tanev are a wash. Adding a +2M forward who will be a UFA at the end of the season, while giving up a Dman signed to an ELC (and not burning a year on it yet) makes no sense.

Where is the incentive?

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10-10-2012, 08:54 AM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SDK View Post
Magnus Paajarvi for Chris Tanev.

Yay or nay?

Canucks need a scoring prospect with the potential to break out and the Oilers have a surplus and limited space for Paajarvi.
As an Oiler fan . The Canucks would be the last team i would make a deal with . I do not like the Canucks ,but the reason i would make a deal with them is they are a team we need to catch . Making a trade with the chance of making them a better team does not set will with me .

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Old
10-10-2012, 09:11 AM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mstad101 View Post
I was speaking of two different posters. One commented Klefbom was better than Tanev who had an Oiler avatar, the other was one who thought a Raymond and Tanev for PRV.

Just outrageous in my mind to think this kid who has shown less than Raymond is worth more only based on potential. As far as I've seen, the kid skates fast bu doesn't score a ton. I see him right now as at best until further development he is a 3rd line LW on a sub par Playoff team.

Well considering Vancouver's needs are a 2nd line RW who can score and hold the puck on his stick, I just don't see the value in sending a very solid right side Dman we need more, and an expendable but good tweener LW.

If the Oil were more realistic and said maybe Klefbom and PRV for Raymond and Tanev. At least we'd be in the ballpark of a deal. As it stands not so much. Hence my comment
You would have Tambo laughing for a month with that, Raymond and Tanev wouldn't even get you close to getting Klefbom.

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Old
10-10-2012, 03:45 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jumptheshark View Post
Tired of canuck fans propping Tanev up as a top 4 d-man. MPS will be a 30 goal scorer shortly.

Trying to figure out if it is the love in with Ballard or Tanev that some canuck fans have annoy me more
tanev is closer to being a top 4 then mps is closer to being a top 6

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Old
10-10-2012, 05:40 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by brandon4679 View Post
tanev is closer to being a top 4 then mps is closer to being a top 6
How do you figure this. From the looks of things Tanev is a non-physical, good shot blocker that has seen limited PK time and very little PP time. If he's to be a top 4 D, he needs to be more physical, and for a D noted to be a PMD, you would think he would've gotten more PP time. I cannot see him getting any top 4 time anytime soon, unless the Canucks trade someone or someone is injured

Note MPS is playing on the top line with Eberle and RNH with OKC, has put on muscle and size and has look good in the preseason in the AHL. Also note Smyth will not be seeing any top 6 time, opening up a space in the top 6 for MPS.

I don't see why Edmonton would want Tanev, and cannot see him cracking the Oilers squad.

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10-10-2012, 06:23 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WeridAl View Post
How do you figure this. From the looks of things Tanev is a non-physical, good shot blocker that has seen limited PK time and very little PP time. If he's to be a top 4 D, he needs to be more physical, and for a D noted to be a PMD, you would think he would've gotten more PP time. I cannot see him getting any top 4 time anytime soon, unless the Canucks trade someone or someone is injured

Note MPS is playing on the top line with Eberle and RNH with OKC, has put on muscle and size and has look good in the preseason in the AHL. Also note Smyth will not be seeing any top 6 time, opening up a space in the top 6 for MPS.

I don't see why Edmonton would want Tanev, and cannot see him cracking the Oilers squad.
Till Hall gets healthy & then it will be him.

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Old
10-10-2012, 06:27 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WeridAl View Post
How do you figure this. From the looks of things Tanev is a non-physical, good shot blocker that has seen limited PK time and very little PP time. If he's to be a top 4 D, he needs to be more physical, and for a D noted to be a PMD, you would think he would've gotten more PP time. I cannot see him getting any top 4 time anytime soon, unless the Canucks trade someone or someone is injured
Tanev projects VERY similarly to Kevin Klein of Nashville, who had all the same questions when he first came into the league, with the exception of an effective point shot. As long as Tanev continues to mature physically while playing with that exceptional poise he exhibits on the ice I don't see why he can't be just as effective as Klein when he reaches his prime.

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Old
10-10-2012, 06:49 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Imagine17 View Post
Till Hall gets healthy & then it will be him.
What I understand, they have plans to move Hall to C, and he'll play on the second line.

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Old
10-10-2012, 09:03 PM
  #61
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Good trade for both teams, I'd do it.

Man I REALLY hate the nickname "PRV". Every time I see it I cringe.

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Old
10-10-2012, 09:20 PM
  #62
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Oilers dont need Tanev as hed slot behind Smid, Petry, Whitney and (2) Schultz's so we wouldnt need a 5-6 d men.

Also why would any team give anything for Raymond when he pretty much done for being an effective player. Probaly worth a 3-4th rounder

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Old
10-10-2012, 10:27 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Imagine17 View Post
Till Hall gets healthy & then it will be him.
Maybe, maybe not. They might look to play Hall at C or play him on the 2nd line to get Martindale and Pitlick some confidence.

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Old
10-10-2012, 10:36 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by Bryanbryoil View Post
Maybe, maybe not. They might look to play Hall at C or play him on the 2nd line to get Martindale and Pitlick some confidence.
Martindale look good in the couple of preseason games and earn him a spot on the team, he'll most like play 4th line and Green playing the 2nd line with Pitlick and Hall.


Last edited by WeridAl: 10-10-2012 at 11:12 PM.
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Old
10-10-2012, 10:43 PM
  #65
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If they are planning to try Hall at C, I sure hope they do it in OKC.

That way we can get this experiment out of the way and he can go back to playing the wing when this lockout is over.

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Old
10-10-2012, 11:26 PM
  #66
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I can see why Edmonton may not want to do this, but the Tanev and Raymond hate in this thread is ridiculous. How do you figure that Tanev is able to crack one of the deepest blue lines in the league in Vancouver but "he probably wouldnt even crack the Oilers roster."

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10-10-2012, 11:45 PM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WeridAl View Post
Martindale look good in the couple of preseason games and earn him a spot on the team, he'll most like play 4th line and Green playing the 2nd line with Pitlick and Hall.
Martindale is slotted in as the 2C with Green on his LW and Pitlick on his RW as it stands.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Luck 6 View Post
I can see why Edmonton may not want to do this, but the Tanev and Raymond hate in this thread is ridiculous. How do you figure that Tanev is able to crack one of the deepest blue lines in the league in Vancouver but "he probably wouldnt even crack the Oilers roster."
Tanev can't crack vancouvers top 4 until a body is moved out. Tanev probably can't crack edmonton's top 4 either ahead of Petry, Smid, Schultz (x2) or a healthy Whitney. Petry is arguably the most similar to Tanev (RHD with good passing/skating and some physical play) and Oilers fans will like Petry more because we watch him play more.

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Old
10-11-2012, 12:09 AM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luck 6 View Post
I can see why Edmonton may not want to do this, but the Tanev and Raymond hate in this thread is ridiculous. How do you figure that Tanev is able to crack one of the deepest blue lines in the league in Vancouver but "he probably wouldnt even crack the Oilers roster."
Primarily because the Oilers already have 8 Dmen signed. Tanev would be their 9th D man on the roster.

Let's take a look at the current guys:

1) Smid would be on the roster because he's good.

2) The older schultz brings much needed veteran leadership to the team, he's going to be playing fulltime.

3) Whitney is a) expensive and b) not worth much as a trade, thus he'd be playing too.

4) Petry was one of the better D men on the team last year, pencil him into the lineup fulltime.

5) The young Schultz was the offseason signing. You gotta expect that he'd be playing regular minutes too.

That's 5 roster spots already taken.

With that in mind you still have Sutton, Potter and Peckham signed and looking for ice time.

In reality Tanev, if he magically appeared on the Oilers roster, the Oilers would have to make some decisions something a long the lines of:

6) Waive Potter (they should do this anyways)

7) Waive Peckham. lose all the money and time put into his development for nothing

8) Nothing is happening to Sutton. He's the team's #7 Dman, no trade will change that.

So that leaves us with Tanev. He's a nice piece. He would certainly be the first guy added when Whitney gets his annual lower body injury because, he's better than Potter, Peckham and Sutton, but what do you do with him? He'd probably end up in OKC unless Tambo was able to move Potter and Peckham off the roster (and not bring back a roster player).

So to recap, bringing in a young D man, when there is no room for him without a drastic overhaul of the current lineup doesn't make a lot of sense. Then giving up a valuable asset like PRV (or Klefbom) to put yourself in that position, again makes no sense.

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10-11-2012, 12:22 AM
  #69
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Originally Posted by tempest2i View Post
Primarily because the Oilers already have 8 Dmen signed. Tanev would be their 9th D man on the roster.

Let's take a look at the current guys:

1) Smid would be on the roster because he's good.

2) The older schultz brings much needed veteran leadership to the team, he's going to be playing fulltime.

3) Whitney is a) expensive and b) not worth much as a trade, thus he'd be playing too.

4) Petry was one of the better D men on the team last year, pencil him into the lineup fulltime.

5) The young Schultz was the offseason signing. You gotta expect that he'd be playing regular minutes too.

That's 5 roster spots already taken.

With that in mind you still have Sutton, Potter and Peckham signed and looking for ice time.

In reality Tanev, if he magically appeared on the Oilers roster, the Oilers would have to make some decisions something a long the lines of:

6) Waive Potter (they should do this anyways)

7) Waive Peckham. lose all the money and time put into his development for nothing

8) Nothing is happening to Sutton. He's the team's #7 Dman, no trade will change that.

So that leaves us with Tanev. He's a nice piece. He would certainly be the first guy added when Whitney gets his annual lower body injury because, he's better than Potter, Peckham and Sutton, but what do you do with him? He'd probably end up in OKC unless Tambo was able to move Potter and Peckham off the roster (and not bring back a roster player).

So to recap, bringing in a young D man, when there is no room for him without a drastic overhaul of the current lineup doesn't make a lot of sense. Then giving up a valuable asset like PRV (or Klefbom) to put yourself in that position, again makes no sense.
Your forgetting this season is mostly toast, so it would have to be next season we're talking about and you would have to throw in Klefbom in as well. From the sound of Klefbom's play in the SEL, Tanev doesn't have a chance. Then there's Musil and Marincin, who both have more potential then Tanev.

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10-11-2012, 12:30 AM
  #70
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Originally Posted by Groucho View Post
Martindale is slotted in as the 2C with Green on his LW and Pitlick on his RW as it stands.
http://oilersnation.com/2012/10/8/nelson-on-okc

According to head coach Nelson, Pitlick, Josh Green and Hartikainen will be the second line.

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10-11-2012, 12:30 AM
  #71
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Originally Posted by WeridAl View Post
Your forgetting this season is mostly toast, so it would have to be next season we're talking about and you would have to throw in Klefbom in as well. From the sound of Klefbom's play in the SEL, Tanev doesn't have a chance. Then there's Musil and Marincin, who both have more potential then Tanev.
Musil and Marincin are no more than magic beans at the moment.

Klefbom, as good as he has been in the SEL this season (and he has my complete attention because he's been so good this year), still has a lot to prove. Klefbom has a very good chance of being the better Dman (as compared to Tanev) in the future, but on opening day next year, that's putting a lot of expectations on a young guy.

A young guy coming over to play in the best league in the world on small ice. That's a recipe for short term disappointment.

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10-11-2012, 12:31 AM
  #72
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Originally Posted by Luck 6 View Post
I can see why Edmonton may not want to do this, but the Tanev and Raymond hate in this thread is ridiculous. How do you figure that Tanev is able to crack one of the deepest blue lines in the league in Vancouver but "he probably wouldnt even crack the Oilers roster."
very strong top 4

but beating out Ballard who gets scratched more then a lottery ticket is not the hardest thing.

Not saying Tanev is bad by any stretch. But Smid is still a better defensemen then Tanev and Petry has also proven more

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Old
10-11-2012, 12:58 AM
  #73
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Originally Posted by WeridAl View Post
http://oilersnation.com/2012/10/8/nelson-on-okc

According to head coach Nelson, Pitlick, Josh Green and Hartikainen will be the second line.
I'm a little confused, since everything he's said in other interviews suggests they would keep Martindale on that line.

So they are planning to play Pitlick down the middle for good?

Seems a little strange to me based on events leading up to today, but I'm in favor trying Pitlick at centre.

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10-11-2012, 01:05 AM
  #74
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I don't think I realized before this thread how strongly Edmonton fans have bought into the prospects>players mentality until this thread.

Not that I think Edmonton should want to do this trade, but it's interesting.

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very strong top 4

but beating out Ballard who gets scratched more then a lottery ticket is not the hardest thing.

Not saying Tanev is bad by any stretch. But Smid is still a better defensemen then Tanev and Petry has also proven more
Ballard played much, much better this year. It will just take awhile for his hf reputation to catch up to real time.

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10-11-2012, 01:45 AM
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SDig14 View Post
I'm a little confused, since everything he's said in other interviews suggests they would keep Martindale on that line.

So they are planning to play Pitlick down the middle for good?

Seems a little strange to me based on events leading up to today, but I'm in favor trying Pitlick at centre.
Green will be playing C, Nelson believes Pitlick right now would be a better RW, like to see him play C, would give the Oilers the big RHS C they need.

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