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Voracek/Simmonds

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Old
10-11-2012, 12:14 AM
  #1
Vankiller Whale
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Voracek/Simmonds

What would it take for the Canucks to land one of them?

What are Philly's biggest needs right now?

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10-11-2012, 12:16 AM
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Neutral party here, it would probably take an overpayment, as in, Simmonds/Voracek + for Edler since their biggest need (IMO) is consistent D. If they didnt have Bryz there could probably be a very reasonable deal worked out for Luongo, but having one goalie on a mega-contract is enough. I don't see either Simmonds or Voracek being moved however, since the Flyers just got weaker at RW with the loss of Jagr

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10-11-2012, 12:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
What would it take for the Canucks to land one of them?

What are Philly's biggest needs right now?
Top end defenseman is what Philly really needs. Edler is the name that makes the most sense I guess. Contract situations being what they are, I wouldn't add too much to Wayne Simmonds to get Edler (Edler a UFA next Summer and Simmonds signed for a while at a nice hit). If I were the Canucks I wouldn't really want to let Edler go for a second line winger (he had 28 goals last year but in reality he is more of a second liner). As far as what it would take to get Voracek, probably more than he's really worth if I'm the one negotiating, so I'll let other Flyers fans weigh in on that.

So what do the Canucks need for Edler to be on the table? Is a deal workable around one of the two names you mentioned (if you wanted both I don't think the Flyers would be interested)?

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10-11-2012, 12:20 AM
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Originally Posted by DropkickQuinn View Post
Neutral party here, it would probably take an overpayment, as in, Simmonds/Voracek + for Edler since their biggest need (IMO) is consistent D. If they didnt have Bryz there could probably be a very reasonable deal worked out for Luongo, but having one goalie on a mega-contract is enough. I don't see either Simmonds or Voracek being moved however, since the Flyers just got weaker at RW with the loss of Jagr
So basically we should just hope and pray that Bryz decides to stay in the KHL, and somehow gets a release from his current contract?

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10-11-2012, 12:21 AM
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Originally Posted by LuckyLager View Post
So basically we should just hope and pray that Bryz decides to stay in the KHL, and somehow gets a release from his current contract?
I wonder how much Philly would pay us to swap Luongo for Bryz...

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10-11-2012, 12:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LuckyLager View Post
So basically we should just hope and pray that Bryz decides to stay in the KHL, and somehow gets a release from his current contract?
You could just start a rumour that since he left there has been a bear infestation in Philadelphia...

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10-11-2012, 12:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Giroux tha Damaja View Post
Top end defenseman is what Philly really needs. Edler is the name that makes the most sense I guess. Contract situations being what they are, I wouldn't add too much to Wayne Simmonds to get Edler (Edler a UFA next Summer and Simmonds signed for a while at a nice hit). If I were the Canucks I wouldn't really want to let Edler go for a second line winger (he had 28 goals last year but in reality he is more of a second liner). As far as what it would take to get Voracek, probably more than he's really worth if I'm the one negotiating, so I'll let other Flyers fans weigh in on that.

So what do the Canucks need for Edler to be on the table? Is a deal workable around one of the two names you mentioned (if you wanted both I don't think the Flyers would be interested)?
We would need a replacement for Edler in our top 4 to even consider moving him, however I do not think there is a good option on your roster. If theoretically we could attain this replacement from a Luongo trade then I think Simmonds + 1st would be fair value for Edler.

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10-11-2012, 12:32 AM
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Something around Edler for Coburn + Voracek?

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10-11-2012, 12:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Something around Edler for Coburn + Voracek?
Philly can't afford to trade Coburn right now. That completely negates trading for Edler in the first place.

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10-11-2012, 12:36 AM
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Trading Edler opens up a huge hole, there's no point to that trade. We'd be left with Bieksa as our only offensive d-man. I don't think we have the assets to do it since we shouldn't trade Edler and the Flyers are stuck with Bryz/can't trade for Luongo.

At best we could do a futures package, but there isn't really an incentive for Philly to do that.

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10-11-2012, 12:38 AM
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What about Lu for Bryz + Voracek + 1st?

It's just so crazy...

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10-11-2012, 12:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LuckyLager View Post
We would need a replacement for Edler in our top 4 to even consider moving him, however I do not think there is a good option on your roster. If theoretically we could attain this replacement from a Luongo trade then I think Simmonds + 1st would be fair value for Edler.
We don't really have anyone to give you to replace Edler. If we did, we wouldn't need to trade for him. The Simmonds + pick seems reasonable, but I would really have to think about a first if Edler is unsigned. I don't know, but I may decide to do it.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Something around Edler for Coburn + Voracek?
Not no, but hell no.

Coburn is our best defenseman, and he consistently turns his game up by a good amount in the playoffs. I wouldn't trade him to you for Edler straight-up. Even if I thought Edler was an upgrade, there's no real point since Coburns signed for a while and not at an unfair price (4.5 million). If we're sending you Voracek, we add, but it's not going to be anywhere near what you would like apparently.

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10-11-2012, 12:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
What about Lu for Bryz + Voracek + 1st?

It's just so crazy...
Luongo is better than Bryz, but not Voracek+1st better. Voracek is probably worth Luongo straight up, if not slightly more

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10-11-2012, 12:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DropkickQuinn View Post
Luongo is better than Bryz, but not Voracek+1st better. Voracek is probably worth Luongo straight up, if not slightly more
Part of the reason why Luongo's value is lowered is because of his "albatross contract" If we take on an equally bad one, I think it's pretty fair, seeing as we'll have a 5.6 mil backup.

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10-11-2012, 12:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Giroux tha Damaja View Post
Coburn is our best defenseman, and he consistently turns his game up by a good amount in the playoffs. I wouldn't trade him to you for Edler straight-up.


This is why it's impossible to take the trade forums seriously.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale
Part of the reason why Luongo's value is lowered is because of his "albatross contract" If we take on an equally bad one, I think it's pretty fair seeing as we'll have a 5.6 mil backup.
Bryz's contract is far, far worse than Lu's. One is proven elite goaltending, one is.... not.

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10-11-2012, 12:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Giroux tha Damaja View Post
So what do the Canucks need for Edler to be on the table? Is a deal workable around one of the two names you mentioned (if you wanted both I don't think the Flyers would be interested)?
Depends on what the Canucks can get in return for Luongo. Say they are able to get a top 4 defenseman, then that could potentially make Edler available. Right now the knock on Edler is his impending UFA status. Rumour is he want's "Suter-type money". But at this point the Canucks really can't afford to move him.

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10-11-2012, 12:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Griffin View Post
Rumour is he want's "Suter-type money".
Source?

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10-11-2012, 12:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
What about Lu for Bryz + Voracek + 1st?

It's just so crazy...
No. I wouldn't trade you Bryzgalov for Luongo if it meant adding either one of those let alone both.

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10-11-2012, 12:53 AM
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Source?
It was discussed in one of the threads on the Canucks' board after Burrows was re-signed prior to the CBA expiring and Edler was not. I don't think it's out of the question that Edler could ask for $6.5M+(based on the previous CBA, who knows how the new one will look).

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10-11-2012, 12:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schism View Post
Bryz's contract is far, far worse than Lu's. One is proven elite goaltending, one is.... not.
It's basically like taking Luongo's contract out of the picture. How much would Luongo be worth without his contract? I think he could get Voracek + 1st.

EDIT: I see it got shot down...

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10-11-2012, 12:57 AM
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LOL... two of the most vilified fan bases on HFBoards having one of the most polite trade discussions I've ever seen on these boards.

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10-11-2012, 12:58 AM
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Fair enough.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Griffin View Post
It was discussed in one of the threads on the Canucks' board after Burrows was re-signed prior to the CBA expiring and Edler was not. I don't think it's out of the question that Edler could ask for $6.5M+(based on the previous CBA, who knows how the new one will look).
Hfboard chatter =/= rumour. As far as I know there hasn't been any real speculation on the numbers by anyone legitimate. Suter money is 7.5... there's no way he's actually going for that, especially in the new CBA.

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10-11-2012, 01:02 AM
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Realistically I'd expect Edler to sign somewhere between 5.5-6.5. I'd expect 5.5 mil on the Canucks due to our internal cap structure(Kesler makes 5 mil, the Sedins 6.1 mil), but on another team he'd probably get 6 mil. I think if we did trade him Philly would be the perfect place, though.

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10-11-2012, 01:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schism View Post


This is why it's impossible to take the trade forums seriously.
Why, because I value my player differently than you do, or because I don't want to pay the asking price for Edler?

Coburn is a better defender than Edler (scoff at it if you like, it's true). Coburn is probably not a better player, but he's a better defender and that's the kind of defenseman we need (our team was second in scoring last year, not so strong defensively). Add to that the fact that Coburn is signed for three more years at a million less than Matt Carle, that Edler reportedly wants Suter type money and that our guy has repeatedly proven himself a big game player . . . . we'll keep our guy. Thanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by schism View Post
Bryz's contract is far, far worse than Lu's. One is proven elite goaltending, one is.... not.
Their contracts are comparable. Luongo is a better goalie absolutely, but if he was good enough to be worth Bryz, Voracek and a 1st you wouldn't be trying to trade him at all. If he is so desirable, he would've been traded already. The market is not bearing what you want for him, so trade him for what you can get or don't. Continuing to ask for outlandish packages isn't doing anything but annoying people.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Griffin View Post
Depends on what the Canucks can get in return for Luongo. Say they are able to get a top 4 defenseman, then that could potentially make Edler available. Right now the knock on Edler is his impending UFA status. Rumour is he want's "Suter-type money". But at this point the Canucks really can't afford to move him.
Perhaps this is an idea best revisited once the picture regarding Luongo becomes a bit clearer. As far as Edler's expectations regarding salary, it would seem Holmgren really doesn't care what anybody wants, but Suter money was a lot, even for Suter who most would agree is a better player.


EDIT: I see the comment that he wanted Ryan Suter type money is contested by others, so I'll remove that from further consideration of things, FWIW.

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10-11-2012, 01:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Giroux tha Damaja View Post
Their contracts are comparable. Luongo is a better goalie absolutely, but if he was good enough to be worth Bryz, Voracek and a 1st you wouldn't be trying to trade him at all. If he is so desirable, he would've been traded already. The market is not bearing what you want for him, so trade him for what you can get or don't. Continuing to ask for outlandish packages isn't doing anything but annoying people.
How many teams have a Bryz-esque contract that they could include in a package to offset Lu's contract?

I'm just saying that if you assume their contracts cancel out, Luongo looks a lot more appealing to teams.

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