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Old
10-10-2012, 08:19 PM
  #51
TheGoalJudge
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Originally Posted by Chapin Landvogt View Post
Garth Snow wouldn't touch this deal with a ten foot pole. Good reason to believe that any/each of Reinhart, Donovan and de Haan will be playing an NHL role somewhat the equivalent of Subban's within 2-3 NHL seasons.

Another thing - three current Islanders are absolutely untouchable, in as much as any player is 'untouchable'. Those three are:
Tavares, Hamonic, Martin

For the roles they play now and are expected to hold in the future, they just can't be had.
Oh please. Matt Martin in the same group as Tavares.

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10-10-2012, 08:33 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Chapin Landvogt View Post
I commented above, but I've noticed that I haven't yet seen a post here giving any logical explanation as to why Subban would considered a player who the Islanders would even be interested in?

I know the boy has some goods and some pizazz. And there is of course the connection between him and Tavares on the friend/former teammate front. Still, he's far from a finished product and there are a number of kinks in his overall game that may not be ironed out any time soon, even if the jump in +/- despite a poor team was a good, good sign. In addition, he's not without his maturity issues and degree of general unpopularity around the league outside of Montreal. There's also been little talk here about his current contract situation.

Still, his calling card is that of an offensive-oriented defenseman, something the Isles already have (at least on paper) in Streit and Visnovsky with each of Hamonic and MacDonald showing a tendency to be very good in this capacity in the near future. Then the team was looking into entering the season with one of de Haan, Donovan or Ness (my money was on de Haan) being force-fed (uhhh, Islanderspeak for 'introduced') to the line-up. Regardless of who would make it, they are all three Dmen who are good skaters and move the puck, with Donovan being a guy who is dangerous from the blueline in while Ness and de Haan are the solid first pass types. Then on top of it all, the team not only added Mayfield, Pedan, Russo and Kichton (each offering skills more akin to a puckmoving Dman) to the stable in the '11 draft, but also just took seven(!!!) Dmen in this past draft, no less than three of them also being considered strong in the two-way, puckmoving game (ironically, Pelech was the defensive Dman, yet leads all these picks in points thus far).

Thus, there's truly very, very little reason to think the Isles would have any interest whatsever in moving the types of pieces mentioned by the OP for - a third year offensive RFA Dman who hasn't broken the 40 point barrier and is looking for goodddddd money?

Do Habs fans think he's Drew Doughty or something?

Sorry, but if Montreal is shopping Subban, they need to be looking at Philly or a western conference team. I'm aware that the Isles have some pretty pieces of interest for suitors, but offering a guy like Subban is a mundane proposition in Islanderville.
I'll have to respectfully disagree. While Streit has a great shot and is a good offensive defenseman, he is not in the same category as Subban when it comes to his all-around game and Habs fans know, he played for us. Visnovsky is a good offensive defenseman, but he's dreadful defensively and disappears when the going gets tough.

You paint Subban as an offensive defenseman. He's so much more than that and while he's not (yet) at the level of Drew Doughty, he's not as far behind as some make him out to be (next level down). He's physical, plays top minutes both on the PP and SH, and is already matched against the opponent's toughest lines and that, after only a couple of NHL seasons under his belt.

For the record, I'm not in favour of trading Subban and I do believe that if he was put on the market, the return would be more than people think... and yes, more than what the OP is offering.

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10-10-2012, 08:53 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
I'll have to respectfully disagree. While Streit has a great shot and is a good offensive defenseman, he is not in the same category as Subban when it comes to his all-around game and Habs fans know, he played for us. Visnovsky is a good offensive defenseman, but he's dreadful defensively and disappears when the going gets tough.

You paint Subban as an offensive defenseman. He's so much more than that and while he's not (yet) at the level of Drew Doughty, he's not as far behind as some make him out to be (next level down). He's physical, plays top minutes both on the PP and SH, and is already matched against the opponent's toughest lines and that, after only a couple of NHL seasons under his belt.

For the record, I'm not in favour of trading Subban and I do believe that if he was put on the market, the return would be more than people think... and yes, more than what the OP is offering.
While I do agree with some of the things you say i'd just like to add that it's important to keep in mind that Subban is coming up on a new contract and who knows what he'll be asking. I also don't mean to split hairs, because I do believe he'll be in the same skill level as doughty, but I don't think he'll ever be quite as good as doughty. He'll still be very good but I feel doughty will always have a bit of an edge on him. I've always thought its only a matter of time before subban seriously injures his back/neck with those awkward reverse checks he throws... but im obviously no expert on the subject... if i was i would have more important things to do than post on hfboards haha.

Another thing to keep in mind is that Subban will be around a LOT longer than the aging Streit and Visnovsky.

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10-11-2012, 05:33 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Chapin Landvogt View Post
I commented above, but I've noticed that I haven't yet seen a post here giving any logical explanation as to why Subban would considered a player who the Islanders would even be interested in?

I know the boy has some goods and some pizazz. And there is of course the connection between him and Tavares on the friend/former teammate front. Still, he's far from a finished product and there are a number of kinks in his overall game that may not be ironed out any time soon, even if the jump in +/- despite a poor team was a good, good sign. In addition, he's not without his maturity issues and degree of general unpopularity around the league outside of Montreal. There's also been little talk here about his current contract situation.

Still, his calling card is that of an offensive-oriented defenseman, something the Isles already have (at least on paper) in Streit and Visnovsky with each of Hamonic and MacDonald showing a tendency to be very good in this capacity in the near future. Then the team was looking into entering the season with one of de Haan, Donovan or Ness (my money was on de Haan) being force-fed (uhhh, Islanderspeak for 'introduced') to the line-up. Regardless of who would make it, they are all three Dmen who are good skaters and move the puck, with Donovan being a guy who is dangerous from the blueline in while Ness and de Haan are the solid first pass types. Then on top of it all, the team not only added Mayfield, Pedan, Russo and Kichton (each offering skills more akin to a puckmoving Dman) to the stable in the '11 draft, but also just took seven(!!!) Dmen in this past draft, no less than three of them also being considered strong in the two-way, puckmoving game (ironically, Pelech was the defensive Dman, yet leads all these picks in points thus far).

Thus, there's truly very, very little reason to think the Isles would have any interest whatsever in moving the types of pieces mentioned by the OP for - a third year offensive RFA Dman who hasn't broken the 40 point barrier and is looking for goodddddd money?

Do Habs fans think he's Drew Doughty or something?

Sorry, but if Montreal is shopping Subban, they need to be looking at Philly or a western conference team. I'm aware that the Isles have some pretty pieces of interest for suitors, but offering a guy like Subban is a mundane proposition in Islanderville.

Well for one he would be your best d-man right off the bat, also the Pizazz you spoke of could sell a lot of seats in long island.

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10-11-2012, 06:21 AM
  #55
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The reason Nash got so little was because of his God awful contract and lack of production for that contract.Also there were few teams interrested in Nash.
These things certainly played a role (albeit I'm not so sure that 'few teams' were interested, it's just that Nash had his contract-entitled wish list and that list included only but a few teams), but nothing played a bigger than him publically stating that he will no longer suit up for Columbus.

Nothing.

That had the biggest impact on what Columbus could get for their franchise player.

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Yes P.K. value would drop only if a few teams were interrested but if say 10 teams were really interrested in P.K than they alone would drive up P.K's value by trying to outbid each other. PS I believe teams would be lining up to get a shot to get P.K. which would drive his value up up up.
Supply, demand and competition will always be a major factor, but generally, the GMs are intelligent enough not to pay market value - even in competition with other GMs - for a guy who is not resigning with his current team one way or the other. They may ultimately pay a somewhat fair value, but they're not ready to pay an equivalent "promise"-based value, much less overpay for an asset, when they know that GM doesn't have the brokering power, inflicted by said player not willing to resign.

This is a chief reason why teams looking to move guys will do their darndest to get contracts done with them first.

Of course, Habs fans have experienced the opposite in no less than the Gomez deal - which BTW ticked off the rest of the hockey world, a world that was fully enjoying Sather and the Rag$ being stuck with underproducing, high-costs assets as a punishment for their market-wrecking signing tendencies, but I digress...

As for how much teams would be willing to offer in a bidding war for an unsigned Subban, I think Habs fans would have to lower their expectations. The deal in the OP, for example, is already far too much a return under the current circumstances, considering any one of the listed prospect Dmen coming from the Isles could easily be as good a player as Subban within 3 years time. No team is giving that ++ up for an unsigned RFA with much to prove looking for a good payday.

If Subban were signed to say a 5 year deal averaging 3.5 million per, then I'd agree that a real good return could surely be had.


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10-11-2012, 06:36 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by TheGoalJudge View Post
Oh please. Matt Martin in the same group as Tavares.
Yes, certainly, because a list of 'untouchables' does not mean that 'all the players on that list are just as valuable and as good as each other'. It means that it nonetheless makes no sense for a team to move the respective player for any nominal trade value due to the respective importance of that player to the team and franchise.

You can ask any Islander fan:
The current importance of Matt Martin as a fan-favorite, homegrown, old school fighter with PK abilities and a growing offensive game who happens to be on a sweetheart deal while - just off hand - throwing the most checks in the entire league, many of them of the 'whopping' category, is an asset that few teams - the Islanders being the least of which - could ever part with for simply a 'fair' return.

Not to be underestimated is that player's locker room presence, community work and the general respect he has amongst his teammates - and even around the league.

And as another poster mentioned above: Matt Martin wreaks of intangibles, the kind every Stanley Cup participant must have in its line-up.

Thus, along with Tavares and Hamonic, there's not one logical reason in the world for Snow to move Martin for anything other than a quantified overpayment. His importance to the team is simply far above that of nominal value.

This in mind, his inclusion in a deal such as the OP's is nothing short of delusional.

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10-11-2012, 06:45 AM
  #57
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Well for one he would be your best d-man right off the bat, also the Pizazz you spoke of could sell a lot of seats in long island.
Ahhh, this is where Habs fans look at Subban and his abilities with red and blue colored shades.

The fan interest caused by the pizazz part could be right to a degree - although the 4000 plus Isles fans who actually go to games regularly AND are in the know would prolly be so doggone pissed off with the price paid in the OP's proposal, that they could hardly enjoy the antics and icecapades that Subban brings with him.

An aside:
I'm curious - and be honest - is it fair to say that a number of Montreal fans would actually rather see Streit in their line-up than Subban???

I'm not looking for a personal opinion from posters here, but rather an estimate of whether there are truly a number of Habs fans who, for whatever reason, would rather see Streit in a Habs jersey than Subban.

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10-11-2012, 07:10 AM
  #58
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I'll have to respectfully disagree. While Streit has a great shot and is a good offensive defenseman, he is not in the same category as Subban when it comes to his all-around game and Habs fans know, he played for us.
But are you taking into account that Streit's defensive game has likely 'evolved' in his time as an Islander, seeing as how he has solely been used as a Dman, and quite often at that?

And uhhh, seriously, other than some of the hits he lays out, is he truly positionally any better than Streit? Is his game more intelligent than Streit's? Does he read and think the game better than Streit does?

If your answer is yes to these questions, do you truly think people in-the-know throughout the NHL world would agree with you?

Ask yourself this:
Would Subban currently captain Team Switzerland ahead of Streit if he were Swiss?

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Visnovsky is a good offensive defenseman, but he's dreadful defensively and disappears when the going gets tough.
Possibly accurate assertation, but both he and Streit can deliver as many, and traditionally more, points than Subban. Granted, Subban is on an upward curve while Streit and Visnovsky are diminishing, but if we were playing hockey now and Streit and Visnovsky were manning just about every NYI PP (which would be the case), do you really think Subban would ultimately outscore either, much less both?

I think Subban has quite a shot and can of course go on the rush real well. I'm not yet convinced of his abilities as a playmaker, per se. Still, Streit and Visnovsky can do each of these things while also being great at developing something out of nothing with their vision and creativity.

As far as the upward curve is concerned - and remember, I'm arguing that the Isles don't NEED a player like Subban at a price anywhere near the one suggested by the OP - that's where Hamonic and MacDonald's upwards curves come in, much less those of the next 5 or 6 offensively oriented Dmen in the system. Alone Hamonic is a kid who is going to be in the same class as Subban, even if some will always find Subban nominally a bit better. Throw in all the other all-round puckmoving types in the Islander system and Subban's skillset becomes mundane for this team.

Ipso facto, Snow is certainly not creating holes elsewhere (in this case, the loss of THE enforcer/hitter/intangibles man and the loss of the team's fastest player, plus a soon-to-be similar highly regarded defensive prospect) to add to what is likely the one item the Islanders system is somewhat in abundance of.

Quote:
You paint Subban as an offensive defenseman. He's so much more than that and while he's not (yet) at the level of Drew Doughty, he's not as far behind as some make him out to be (next level down). He's physical, plays top minutes both on the PP and SH, and is already matched against the opponent's toughest lines and that, after only a couple of NHL seasons under his belt.
He's improving and on the upwards curve (even if the goals were cut in half last year despite playing four more games than the previous year). So how far can he go? I'll also agree that he's in the group just below the Doughtys and Pietrangelos of the world, although that group would include a good 15-20 Dmen around the league and will at least soon be joined by Hamonic. As far as being matched against the toughest lines, well, that does have much to do with the blueline situation in Montreal and the many, many, many missed games of a one Mr. Markov. And let's be honest, it's not like the team was winning games left and right with Mr. Subban leading the charge.

Quote:
For the record, I'm not in favour of trading Subban and I do believe that if he was put on the market, the return would be more than people think... and yes, more than what the OP is offering.
As a non-Habs fan who has nothing against the team and who LOVES the role of Montreal and the franchise in the world of ice hockey, this is the kind of statement that could pretty much only come from a true fan of the team. I believe few outside of Habsville would agree on this point, should they have any knowledge of the Islanders players listed.

For an outsider, your statement is symbolic of a person wearing those shiny bleu, blanc et rouge glasses.

Which is Ok; we all have our favorite teams and tend to respectively overvalue or undervalue players accordingly, because we've watched and loved/hated them on a daily basis.


Last edited by Chapin Landvogt: 10-11-2012 at 07:20 AM.
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10-11-2012, 08:38 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
I'll have to respectfully disagree. While Streit has a great shot and is a good offensive defenseman, he is not in the same category as Subban when it comes to his all-around game and Habs fans know, he played for us. Visnovsky is a good offensive defenseman, but he's dreadful defensively and disappears when the going gets tough.

You paint Subban as an offensive defenseman. He's so much more than that and while he's not (yet) at the level of Drew Doughty, he's not as far behind as some make him out to be (next level down). He's physical, plays top minutes both on the PP and SH, and is already matched against the opponent's toughest lines and that, after only a couple of NHL seasons under his belt.

For the record, I'm not in favour of trading Subban and I do believe that if he was put on the market, the return would be more than people think... and yes, more than what the OP is offering.
Streit played forward for you and second pairing minutes. He's not the same player he was in Montreal.

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10-11-2012, 08:41 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Chapin Landvogt View Post
But are you taking into account that Streit's defensive game has likely 'evolved' in his time as an Islander, seeing as how he has solely been used as a Dman, and quite often at that?

And uhhh, seriously, other than some of the hits he lays out, is he truly positionally any better than Streit? Is his game more intelligent than Streit's? Does he read and think the game better than Streit does?

If your answer is yes to these questions, do you truly think people in-the-know throughout the NHL world would agree with you?

Ask yourself this:
Would Subban currently captain Team Switzerland ahead of Streit if he were Swiss?
I can honestly answer yes to all of the above, rose glasses aside.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Chapin Landvogt View Post
Possibly accurate assertation, but both he and Streit can deliver as many, and traditionally more, points than Subban. Granted, Subban is on an upward curve while Streit and Visnovsky are diminishing, but if we were playing hockey now and Streit and Visnovsky were manning just about every NYI PP (which would be the case), do you really think Subban would ultimately outscore either, much less both?

I think Subban has quite a shot and can of course go on the rush real well. I'm not yet convinced of his abilities as a playmaker, per se. Still, Streit and Visnovsky can do each of these things while also being great at developing something out of nothing with their vision and creativity.
You're reverting back to offense again. I did not put down the two Islanders' offensive abilities. I'm simply saying that Subban is a better rounded player in all facets of the game, including defense and physicality. When he's on the ice, he's not a one-trick poney, but more of a complete player... at a much younger age than the other two.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chapin Landvogt View Post
As far as the upward curve is concerned - and remember, I'm arguing that the Isles don't NEED a player like Subban at a price anywhere near the one suggested by the OP - that's where Hamonic and MacDonald's upwards curves come in, much less those of the next 5 or 6 offensively oriented Dmen in the system. Alone Hamonic is a kid who is going to be in the same class as Subban, even if some will always find Subban nominally a bit better. Throw in all the other all-round puckmoving types in the Islander system and Subban's skillset becomes mundane for this team.

Ipso facto, Snow is certainly not creating holes elsewhere (in this case, the loss of THE enforcer/hitter/intangibles man and the loss of the team's fastest player, plus a soon-to-be similar highly regarded defensive prospect) to add to what is likely the one item the Islanders system is somewhat in abundance of.

He's improving and on the upwards curve (even if the goals were cut in half last year despite playing four more games than the previous year). So how far can he go? I'll also agree that he's in the group just below the Doughtys and Pietrangelos of the world, although that group would include a good 15-20 Dmen around the league and will at least soon be joined by Hamonic. As far as being matched against the toughest lines, well, that does have much to do with the blueline situation in Montreal and the many, many, many missed games of a one Mr. Markov. And let's be honest, it's not like the team was winning games left and right with Mr. Subban leading the charge.
The point about the price to pay is a fair point, although to state that Hamonic will become as good as Subban is a HF Board parasite where prospects seem to be compared to established players, which no one knows until they reach (or not) their potential. Time will tell but it's not the case as we speak. Same with Habs' fans thinking that Subban is as good as Doughty because of potential. Let's wait and see before jumping to those conclusions. They may or may not reach the anticipated level.

As for winning games, hockey is a team sport. If you've watched any Habs' game you'll know that the Habs didn't lose because of Subban, Price, Gorges, Cole or Pacioretty. The support staff and the coaching have been the Achilles of that team.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Chapin Landvogt View Post
As a non-Habs fan who has nothing against the team and who LOVES the role of Montreal and the franchise in the world of ice hockey, this is the kind of statement that could pretty much only come from a true fan of the team. I believe few outside of Habsville would agree on this point, should they have any knowledge of the Islanders players listed.

For an outsider, your statement is symbolic of a person wearing those shiny bleu, blanc et rouge glasses.

Which is Ok; we all have our favorite teams and tend to respectively overvalue or undervalue players accordingly, because we've watched and loved/hated them on a daily basis.
That's a free statement which, to be honest, hold no ground. I know some Islanders' fans who, in spite of being fans of the team, can be very level-headed about their analysis of their players and team performances, just like I know fans of many teams being able to do the same. Trying to take away an opinion because someone is a fan of that team is... well... quite flawed, sorry to say.

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10-11-2012, 08:44 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
I'll have to respectfully disagree. While Streit has a great shot and is a good offensive defenseman, he is not in the same category as Subban when it comes to his all-around game and Habs fans know, he played for us. Visnovsky is a good offensive defenseman, but he's dreadful defensively and disappears when the going gets tough.

You paint Subban as an offensive defenseman. He's so much more than that and while he's not (yet) at the level of Drew Doughty, he's not as far behind as some make him out to be (next level down). He's physical, plays top minutes both on the PP and SH, and is already matched against the opponent's toughest lines and that, after only a couple of NHL seasons under his belt.

For the record, I'm not in favour of trading Subban and I do believe that if he was put on the market, the return would be more than people think... and yes, more than what the OP is offering.
I agree with pretty much everything you wrote about Subban, and that he'd definitely be someone the Islanders would be interested in, but you are off on your analysis of Streit.

Streit isn't the same player he was in Montreal. If he was, he would have gotten a lot more money and a lot more attention on the UFA market a few years ago. He's elevated his game here on Long Island to the point where he's a legit 1st pairing defenseman.

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10-11-2012, 08:56 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Chapin Landvogt View Post
Ahhh, this is where Habs fans look at Subban and his abilities with red and blue colored shades.

The fan interest caused by the pizazz part could be right to a degree - although the 4000 plus Isles fans who actually go to games regularly AND are in the know would prolly be so doggone pissed off with the price paid in the OP's proposal, that they could hardly enjoy the antics and icecapades that Subban brings with him.

An aside:
I'm curious - and be honest - is it fair to say that a number of Montreal fans would actually rather see Streit in their line-up than Subban???

I'm not looking for a personal opinion from posters here, but rather an estimate of whether there are truly a number of Habs fans who, for whatever reason, would rather see Streit in a Habs jersey than Subban.
No, its not fair at all.

Who in their right mind would take Streit over Subban? Subban and streit are close right now but when you think about age, salary, injury history, +/-, ceiling. That all favors Subban by alot.

He would be the #1 in Long Island. That is not a homer statement, its simply fact.

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10-11-2012, 09:09 AM
  #63
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Streit played forward for you and second pairing minutes. He's not the same player he was in Montreal.
He is the exact same player. His -27 last season shows it. He is good offensive d-man, average defensively. Thats not an insult, its just the facts.

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10-11-2012, 09:12 AM
  #64
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He is the exact same player. His -27 last season shows it. He is good offensive d-man, average defensively. Thats not an insult, its just the facts.
Okay, you can stop saying it's the facts.

And he missed an entire season. He was terrible when he was shaking off the rust but he played much better in the second half. His d-partner was also either Steve Staios or Milan Jurcina. You're going to have a large +/- if that's your partner.

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10-11-2012, 09:15 AM
  #65
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No, its not fair at all.

Who in their right mind would take Streit over Subban? Subban and streit are close right now but when you think about age, salary, injury history, +/-, ceiling. That all favors Subban by alot.

He would be the #1 in Long Island. That is not a homer statement, its simply fact.
I concur with what ye other Habs fans are saying. I also agree that Streit has clearly evolved in his time post-Habdom. He was unable to play defense for us, and was basically a rover/PP specialist, and too weak to hold his own on the blueline. It's dead obvious he has come a significant way since then. But even still, when I watch him as an Islander, I don't see a guy who takes charge in his own zone or plays with any edge or especial defensive excellence... he's solid enough, smart enough, and the transition game is certainly a part of good defense, so in the end, he's still a net benefit defensively too, something that couldn't remotely have been said of his time in Montreal. But I don't think he's close to Subban defensively even now. Smarter, far more experienced, but not to the extent that it outweighs the sheer physical advantages that Subban employs effectively in his defensive game.

Streit is better offensively than Subban, though. A lot of fans who don't watch the Habs regularly seem to be surprised by it, but Subban is actually better defensively than offensively. Subban's offense is ok, he still makes some flashy rushes, but he had a terrible time on the PP last season, and hasn't found the way to translate his offensive skills into any steady production. Whereas by contrast he has established himself as a rock on the PK and a top choice for the Habs to pair against the top players on the opposing team.

Subban is better than Streit, and would be the Isles' #1 defenseman, agreed. But the Isles will never get him, soooo...

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10-11-2012, 10:11 AM
  #66
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Ahhh, this is where Habs fans look at Subban and his abilities with red and blue colored shades.

The fan interest caused by the pizazz part could be right to a degree - although the 4000 plus Isles fans who actually go to games regularly AND are in the know would prolly be so doggone pissed off with the price paid in the OP's proposal, that they could hardly enjoy the antics and icecapades that Subban brings with him.

An aside:
I'm curious - and be honest - is it fair to say that a number of Montreal fans would actually rather see Streit in their line-up than Subban???

I'm not looking for a personal opinion from posters here, but rather an estimate of whether there are truly a number of Habs fans who, for whatever reason, would rather see Streit in a Habs jersey than Subban.
Never.

P.K. is on-par with the best 2way dman's in the league.(Well, maybe not on par with all of them, but he's damn near them.)

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10-11-2012, 10:34 AM
  #67
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Okay, you can stop saying it's the facts.

And he missed an entire season. He was terrible when he was shaking off the rust but he played much better in the second half. His d-partner was also either Steve Staios or Milan Jurcina. You're going to have a large +/- if that's your partner.

You are correct, he was only a -11 from January 1st on. So yea, better, but not much better


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10-11-2012, 10:50 AM
  #68
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You are correct, he was only a -11 from January 1st on......
Thanks for proving that you didn't actually watch the guy play by basing your opinion off +/-.

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10-11-2012, 10:53 AM
  #69
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Thanks for proving that you didn't actually watch the guy play by basing your opinion off +/-.
Ah the age-old ''my player has a putrid + - but you obviously haven't watched him play so I win, hah!'' argument.

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10-11-2012, 10:54 AM
  #70
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Thanks for proving that you didn't actually watch the guy play by basing your opinion off +/-.
who gives a crap how he played. He might have looked awesome on offence. But the bottom line is that his numbers are plain average defensively.

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10-11-2012, 10:56 AM
  #71
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Ah the age-old ''my player has a putrid + - but you obviously haven't watched him play so I win, hah!'' argument.
You're right. His argument of "oh look... -11 since January... I guess he sucks" is much more rock solid. But hey, I only watched 82 Islander games last year... what the hell would I know?

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10-11-2012, 10:58 AM
  #72
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You're right. His argument of "oh look... -11 since January... I guess he sucks" is much more rock solid. But hey, I only watched 82 Islander games last year... what the hell would I know?
No one said he sucked, but Subban is practically a shut down defenseman, he's much better (and stronger) than Streit in his own zone.

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10-11-2012, 10:59 AM
  #73
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You're right. His argument of "oh look... -11 since January... I guess he sucks" is much more rock solid. But hey, I only watched 82 Islander games last year... what the hell would I know?
I never said Streit sucks. He doesnt. He is a really good offensive d-man, just average defensively. Subban is much better, and to be honest, I am shocked to see anyone argue that fact.

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10-11-2012, 11:05 AM
  #74
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who gives a crap how he played. He might have looked awesome on offence. But the bottom line is that his numbers are plain average defensively.
It really has nothing to do with his offensive game. In the first half he was constantly getting beat by guys breaking in along the wing, and he was responsible for countless turnovers trying to make breakout passes. During the second half, he was a different player. He looked like the old Streit. He was taking better angles to the puck and was rarely beat, was much smarter with the puck and with his stick checks. In the first half he seemed to try to force plays that weren't there. In the second half, he was much more calm with the puck and seemed to always make the right play on the breakout.

Any Islander fan, even the most pessimistic(if you think I'm being a homer) will tell you the same thing. Streit looked like the old Streit during the second half of 2011-12.

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10-11-2012, 11:06 AM
  #75
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Value is pretty good and around what it would take, but the Habs nation is simply in love with this kid and I doubt he will be moved. Bergevin's 1st mistake as GM would be trading this kid

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