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Old
10-10-2012, 04:22 PM
  #26
LilySmoov
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Originally Posted by topdog View Post
Guess you would rather have Komi over Calvin de Haan or T. Bosak over Chris Kreider.
Grabovski = currently a legitimate #2
Wilson = currently not a legitimate top-6 player, though with the potential to become one

Komisarek = former all-star defenseman on the downturn of his career, bottom-pairing defenseman as of late (making 4.5M no less)
de Haan = highly touted prospect

Bozak = solid top-9 center, ideally #3, can fill in the top 2 if necessary and perform adequately
Kreider = very, very highly touted prospect

So, uh, LOL no. Try again.

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Old
10-10-2012, 04:56 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by LilySmoov View Post
Grabovski = currently a legitimate #2
Wilson = currently not a legitimate top-6 player, though with the potential to become one

Komisarek = former all-star defenseman on the downturn of his career, bottom-pairing defenseman as of late (making 4.5M no less)
de Haan = highly touted prospect

Bozak = solid top-9 center, ideally #3, can fill in the top 2 if necessary and perform adequately
Kreider = very, very highly touted prospect

So, uh, LOL no. Try again.

Reimer not even a true started but could end up being one
Rinne a top 5 goalie.

So LOL.... add

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Old
10-10-2012, 04:57 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by topdog View Post
Reimer not even a true started but could end up being one
Rinne a top 5 goalie.

So LOL.... add
I never mentioned Rinne or Reimer, so I have no idea why you quoted me with any of this idiocy.

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Old
10-10-2012, 06:00 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by topdog View Post
Grabo at Wilsons age wasn't even good enough to make the NHL.
Wilson in his 1st 3 seasons has accomplished as much or should i say more than Grabo did in his 1st 3 seasons. Taking in consideration that Wilson is only 22 while Grabo is 28 and looking at both players 1st 3 season i would say it pretty conceivable that Wilson will be a 2nd line center by the time he hit 28 also.
Add the additional 6 yr of age i would say Leafs add at least a prospect or a draft pick.
That is by far the oddest logic I have ever seen to rate a players "value".


EDIT: I see what you did there.

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Old
10-10-2012, 06:05 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by topdog View Post
Now your trying to compare an average 2nd liner to one of the better goalies in the league today.
Quote:
Originally Posted by topdog View Post
Guess you would rather have Komi over Calvin de Haan or T. Bosak over Chris Kreider.
Bahaha, looks like those 2 flew right over your head

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Old
10-10-2012, 06:08 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Gavy View Post
Bahaha, looks like those 2 flew right over your head
Real simple .You want the 22 yo old Wilson and your offering up a 28 yr old Grabs.You will be adding at least a prospect or a draft pick.Fact.

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Old
10-10-2012, 06:23 PM
  #32
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Real simple .You want the 22 yo old Wilson and your offering up a 28 yr old Grabs.You will be adding at least a prospect or a draft pick.Fact.
Honestly I don't know if you are just trolling at this point are sincere?

I fail to see the logic in using Grabo's first three NHL seasons and stacking them against Colin Wilson's to me it is like doing the following...


Patrick Sharp's first three seasons

GP:41 G:5 A:2 P:7
GP:72 G:14 A:17 P:31
GP:80 G:20 A:15 P:35

Jonathan Cheechoo first three seasons

GP:66 G:9 A:7 P:16
GP:81 G:28 A:19 P:47
GP:82 G:56 A:37 P:93

I mean Jonathan Cheechoo outscored Sharp in all of his first seasons so it is clear that he MUST be the better player and it shows because you know Cheechoo is playing with the AHL while Sharp has a multi million dollar contact with Chicago and was a key cog in bringing in a cup.

Logic.


Last edited by Mystifo: 10-10-2012 at 06:41 PM.
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Old
10-10-2012, 06:25 PM
  #33
LilySmoov
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Originally Posted by Mystifo View Post
Honestly I don't know if you are just trolling at this point are sincere?

I fail to see the logic in using Grabo's first three NHL seasons and stacking them against Colin Wilson's to me it is like doing the following...


Patrick Sharp's three two seasons

GP:41 G:5 A:2 P:7
GP:72 G:14 A:17 P:31
GP:80 G:20 A:15 P:35

Jonathan Cheechoo first three seasons

GP:66 G:9 A:7 P:16
GP:81 G:28 A:19 P:47
GP:82 G:56 A:37 P:93

I mean Jonathan Cheechoo outscored Sharp in all of his first seasons so it is clear that he MUST be the better player and it shows because you know Cheechoo is playing with the AHL while Sharp has a multi million dollar contact with Chicago and was a key cog in bringing in a cup.

Logic.
Sharp + Lalonde would do the trick.

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Old
10-10-2012, 07:39 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Mystifo View Post
Honestly I don't know if you are just trolling at this point are sincere?

I fail to see the logic in using Grabo's first three NHL seasons and stacking them against Colin Wilson's to me it is like doing the following...


Patrick Sharp's first three seasons

GP:41 G:5 A:2 P:7
GP:72 G:14 A:17 P:31
GP:80 G:20 A:15 P:35

Jonathan Cheechoo first three seasons

GP:66 G:9 A:7 P:16
GP:81 G:28 A:19 P:47
GP:82 G:56 A:37 P:93

I mean Jonathan Cheechoo outscored Sharp in all of his first seasons so it is clear that he MUST be the better player and it shows because you know Cheechoo is playing with the AHL while Sharp has a multi million dollar contact with Chicago and was a key cog in bringing in a cup.

Logic.
So is it more fair to go with,
Kyle Turris has accomplished nothing to date while Gregory Campbell has won a cup and has scored more pts so does that make Campbell's value more than Turris?

How do you compare a 6 yr player to a 3 yr player?

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Old
10-10-2012, 08:59 PM
  #35
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Trying to reel this thing back in...

I doubt Toronto does it. Grabo is their one true top 6 C (Bozak is close, JVR is a winger), so it makes no sense to move him.

Nashville does this, as much as we love Wilson. Grabo-Fisher-Legwand-Gaustad is an awesome center lineup, and Smith and Spaling player C as well, so we'd be set for a long time.

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Old
10-10-2012, 09:14 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Top 6 Spaling View Post
Trying to reel this thing back in...

I doubt Toronto does it. Grabo is their one true top 6 C (Bozak is close, JVR is a winger), so it makes no sense to move him.

Nashville does this, as much as we love Wilson. Grabo-Fisher-Legwand-Gaustad is an awesome center lineup, and Smith and Spaling player C as well, so we'd be set for a long time.
Fair enough.If it's good enough for a Nashville fan who knows theri needs who am i to disagree.

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Old
10-10-2012, 09:16 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by topdog View Post
Fair enough.If it's good enough for a Nashville fan who knows theri needs who am i to disagree.
I'm not sure a C is our "need" (Fisher-Legwand-Smith/Wilson-Gaustad is solid), but it would certainly help. Wilson is a guy that we would like to keep, but can be traded if it helps our team since we also have Smith.

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Old
10-10-2012, 09:22 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by topdog View Post
So is it more fair to go with,
Kyle Turris has accomplished nothing to date while Gregory Campbell has won a cup and has scored more pts so does that make Campbell's value more than Turris?

How do you compare a 6 yr player to a 3 yr player?
The thing about the age difference is that Grabovski is a 50+ point second line center who is an offense-oriented player (something Nashville needs) who is still in his prime, while Wilson is a young player who has not proven anything significant at the NHL level, but has the potential to be a 50+ point second line center, and is a defensively-oriented player (something Nashville has an excess of). The value of this trade is fairly close (probably titled towards Nashville's favour) but Toronto will never do it since they just re-signed Grabo and he is currently their best center

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Old
10-10-2012, 10:00 PM
  #39
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Real simple .You want the 22 yo old Wilson and your offering up a 28 yr old Grabs.You will be adding at least a prospect or a draft pick.Fact.
Lets spell this out for you

When a player is 6 years older but is of the calibre that the other is "projected" to be then the age difference means squat and the team with the unproven asset needs to add

When a player is 6 years older and is of the same calibre as the other then the team with the older player must add to compensate for age difference

These deals of high potential unproven commodities for provens ones are made all the time

Eg. McDonagh for (expected calibre) Gomez

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Old
10-10-2012, 11:14 PM
  #40
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Let's cut the extra shots at one another and stay civil.

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Old
10-11-2012, 12:07 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Crabovski View Post
Grabovskis one of those guys who isnt going anywhere, only behind Kessel and Dion and Riemer in terms of being untouchable (minors excluded)

Would love to have Wilson but not at the cost of Grabo.


inb4 biased
Oh man, we consider Reimer untouchable? If that's the case, we're ****ed for the foreseeable future.

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Old
10-11-2012, 04:37 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by chrisx101 View Post
Lets spell this out for you

When a player is 6 years older but is of the calibre that the other is "projected" to be then the age difference means squat and the team with the unproven asset needs to add

When a player is 6 years older and is of the same calibre as the other then the team with the older player must add to compensate for age difference

These deals of high potential unproven commodities for provens ones are made all the time

Eg. McDonagh for (expected calibre) Gomez

Eg. McDonagh for (expected calibre) Gomez=terrible example-Straw reaching now.

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Old
10-11-2012, 02:53 PM
  #43
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Eg. McDonagh for (expected calibre) Gomez=terrible example-Straw reaching now.
How exactly? a player with the potential of being either the same calibre or slightly better however a massive question mark for a player that is already a proven commodity. Its actually the exact same idea

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Old
10-11-2012, 03:01 PM
  #44
Tim Vezina Thomas
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How exactly? a player with the potential of being either the same calibre or slightly better however a massive question mark for a player that is already a proven commodity. Its actually the exact same idea
Wilson's ceiling is higher than Grabs right now tho, no question.

Grabs hasnt even cracked 60 points yet in a season, do you really think Wilsons absolute potential is only that? If you do then your point makes sense...but I defintiely think his ceiling is greater.

For the Leafs I'd rather have Grabo. Hes a great 2nd line centerman and the Leafs already have plenty of early twenties players. Plus, they want to compete, Grabo is a better player than Wilson at this point.

For a developing team I take Wilson in a heartbeat, higher potential and Grabo is what he is.

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10-11-2012, 04:23 PM
  #45
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Real simple .You want the 22 yo old Wilson and your offering up a 28 yr old Grabs.You will be adding at least a prospect or a draft pick.Fact.
I think you should just ignore this thread from now on

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Old
10-11-2012, 04:58 PM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by topdog View Post
Grabo at Wilsons age wasn't even good enough to make the NHL.
Wilson in his 1st 3 seasons has accomplished as much or should i say more than Grabo did in his 1st 3 seasons. Taking in consideration that Wilson is only 22 while Grabo is 28 and looking at both players 1st 3 season i would say it pretty conceivable that Wilson will be a 2nd line center by the time he hit 28 also.
Add the additional 6 yr of age i would say Leafs add at least a prospect or a draft pick.
This is some grade A logic right here.

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10-11-2012, 05:19 PM
  #47
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Wilson's ceiling is higher than Grabs right now tho, no question.
Is it really? Based on draft pedigree / some inane HF chatter? Wilson hasn't shown much at the professional level so I'd like to know why you think he has the potential to be so much better than Mikhail Grabovski.

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10-11-2012, 05:20 PM
  #48
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This is some grade A logic right here.
Nothing to see here really. Posts showing that kind of logic are in every Toronto-related thread.

That man seriously has an axe to grind.

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Old
10-11-2012, 06:20 PM
  #49
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Muuuuuch rather grabo.

Wilson filla no need for us. We just give up the much better player leaving us with another huge hole at C

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Old
10-11-2012, 06:41 PM
  #50
Tim Vezina Thomas
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Is it really? Based on draft pedigree / some inane HF chatter? Wilson hasn't shown much at the professional level so I'd like to know why you think he has the potential to be so much better than Mikhail Grabovski.
Keep in mind, "ceiling" is max potential, if he reaches the level everyone thought he would when he was drafted. Does he reach it? Hmm, not sure about that. He was drafted high enough where he SHOULD have #1 center pedigree. The Preds wouldnt have drafted him 7th to be their 3rd line grinder.

Being from Boston and seeing him play for two years, I can say that I thought he was going to be special, and he was drafted with that potential in mind. I still believe that, is that enough to base it on? A first hand account? Even ask Boston College fans, theyll say he was special from the first game he played against them.

He put up 55 points in 43 NCAA games which is incredibly high. In my opinion he'll be better than Grabovski, he has incredible hockey sense, great hands and I remember people commenting on his work ethic all the time when he was drafted. Nothing more than an opinion, not a knock against Grabo.

Also, he hasnt proven anything at the pro level? He put up nearly a PPG in his lone AHL season, does that excuse only count for Kadri?

I think Colin could be a solid #1 at just under a PPG. Maybe 70-75 potential.

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