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Old
10-11-2012, 07:32 PM
  #51
Ricky Bobby
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Vezina Thomas View Post
Wilson's ceiling is higher than Grabs right now tho, no question.

Grabs hasnt even cracked 60 points yet in a season, do you really think Wilsons absolute potential is only that? If you do then your point makes sense...but I defintiely think his ceiling is greater.

For the Leafs I'd rather have Grabo. Hes a great 2nd line centerman and the Leafs already have plenty of early twenties players. Plus, they want to compete, Grabo is a better player than Wilson at this point.

For a developing team I take Wilson in a heartbeat, higher potential and Grabo is what he is.
If we have a season and Nashville looks to be a playoff team well the Leafs again look likely to not be as a Leafs fan I`d do this trade.

Trade Grabo (5.5 per year for next five years)

Gain:
Wilson (2 million cap hit next 3 years then RFA and who can give the Leafs additional size and is the right age to grow with the team)

+ 3 million in cap space to use next off-season


Last edited by spiny norman: 10-11-2012 at 07:33 PM. Reason: fixed [/B][/QUOTE]
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Old
10-11-2012, 07:47 PM
  #52
Roman Abramovich
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Good proposal, but Toronto needs to add imo. Wilson is a future 1 C/W.

To Toronto:
Wilson
2014 4th Round Pick
2014 6th Round Pick

To Nashville:
Grabovski
Blacker
2nd

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Old
10-11-2012, 08:51 PM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Vezina Thomas View Post
Keep in mind, "ceiling" is max potential, if he reaches the level everyone thought he would when he was drafted. Does he reach it? Hmm, not sure about that. He was drafted high enough where he SHOULD have #1 center pedigree. The Preds wouldnt have drafted him 7th to be their 3rd line grinder.

Being from Boston and seeing him play for two years, I can say that I thought he was going to be special, and he was drafted with that potential in mind. I still believe that, is that enough to base it on? A first hand account? Even ask Boston College fans, theyll say he was special from the first game he played against them.

He put up 55 points in 43 NCAA games which is incredibly high. In my opinion he'll be better than Grabovski, he has incredible hockey sense, great hands and I remember people commenting on his work ethic all the time when he was drafted. Nothing more than an opinion, not a knock against Grabo.

Also, he hasnt proven anything at the pro level? He put up nearly a PPG in his lone AHL season, does that excuse only count for Kadri?

I think Colin could be a solid #1 at just under a PPG. Maybe 70-75 potential.
That is more of a starting point when talking about Wilson.


My only problem is with trading Grabo for Wilson seems a bit lateral IMHO and seems odd after signing him long term. (Then again we did see it with Schenn.) But I digress I would much rather trade potential for potential.



Kadri
+



Wilson


Both have shown great strides in the AHL both have been pushed down by the current clubs. Let us think on the Schenn for JVR type of deal. Not on the Mike Richards for Brayden Schenn type of deal.

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Old
10-11-2012, 09:23 PM
  #54
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I'd rather keep Wilson than trade him for Kadri, to be honest. We know how Wilson can play here, and he has shown flashes of brilliance. We don't know how Kadri would look here.

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Old
10-11-2012, 09:45 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roman Abramovich View Post
Good proposal, but Toronto needs to add imo. Wilson is a future 1 C/W.

To Toronto:
Wilson
2014 4th Round Pick
2014 6th Round Pick

To Nashville:
Grabovski
Blacker
2nd
Is this a joke?

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Old
10-11-2012, 09:56 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by LilySmoov View Post
Is this a joke?
I'm afraid not...

He should take out the draft picks, definitely giving us too much.

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Old
10-12-2012, 07:34 AM
  #57
Tim Vezina Thomas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystifo View Post
That is more of a starting point when talking about Wilson.


My only problem is with trading Grabo for Wilson seems a bit lateral IMHO and seems odd after signing him long term. (Then again we did see it with Schenn.) But I digress I would much rather trade potential for potential.



Kadri
+



Wilson


Both have shown great strides in the AHL both have been pushed down by the current clubs. Let us think on the Schenn for JVR type of deal. Not on the Mike Richards for Brayden Schenn type of deal.
A Grabo/Wilson type deal would only happen if A. The Leafs decided to rebuild and B. The Leafs saw Wilson as a high potential player than what Grabo is. If nothing else was involved, the Leafs wouldnt downgrade for next season voluntarily for the hope of Wilson being better than Grabo down the line. Grabo is a good 2nd line center and the Leafs want to compete.

The Kadri/Wilson thing was more of a joke because that is the main evidence Leaf players cite when defending the "Kadris a bust" posts. Hes "been a PPG in the AHL" and hes "only 22." Wilson/Kadri both have had success in the AHL and theyre both 22. I for one think theyll both be top six players eventually and probably on the sooner side, but I think Wilson will be better (granted ive seen Wilson play far more).

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Old
10-12-2012, 07:37 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Michael Gary Scott View Post
Grabovski for Colin Wilson. Add on either side, dont care. Just want Wilson on the Leafs.
I would do it just to dump the Grabovski contract. Decent 2C but they must know something we don't.

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Old
10-12-2012, 08:47 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by topdog View Post
Now your trying to compare an average 2nd liner to one of the better goalies in the league today.
Top 30 in scoring among centers for 2 years in a row = average 2nd liner


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Old
10-13-2012, 08:02 AM
  #60
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He's still bitter about the return Montreal got for Grabo...get over it dog, he's just an "average 2nd liner"

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Old
10-13-2012, 08:47 AM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Vezina Thomas View Post
A Grabo/Wilson type deal would only happen if A. The Leafs decided to rebuild and B. The Leafs saw Wilson as a high potential player than what Grabo is. If nothing else was involved, the Leafs wouldnt downgrade for next season voluntarily for the hope of Wilson being better than Grabo down the line. Grabo is a good 2nd line center and the Leafs want to compete.

The Kadri/Wilson thing was more of a joke because that is the main evidence Leaf players cite when defending the "Kadris a bust" posts. Hes "been a PPG in the AHL" and hes "only 22." Wilson/Kadri both have had success in the AHL and theyre both 22. I for one think theyll both be top six players eventually and probably on the sooner side, but I think Wilson will be better (granted ive seen Wilson play far more).
I have seen more of Kadri and I still value Wilson more mainly because he has the ability to play center effectively. I just thought Kadri and Wilson would be a good starting point for both teams.

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Old
10-13-2012, 08:53 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Mystifo View Post
I have seen more of Kadri and I still value Wilson more mainly because he has the ability to play center effectively. I just thought Kadri and Wilson would be a good starting point for both teams.
Both in general have extremely high end skill. One is capable of playing center effectively though in the NHL, the other so far hasn't been able to.

Wilson I personally think needs a change of scenario but man I love this guy and hope for the predator fans he turns out the way he is projected.

While Kadri still is learning the ropes of being a full time center again in the AHL, but I see him getting in the NHL as a winger first before he becomes a full time center in the NHL.

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Old
10-13-2012, 01:06 PM
  #63
Ricky Bobby
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Originally Posted by MastuhNinks View Post
Top 30 in scoring among centers for 2 years in a row = average 2nd liner

As a Leafs fan I can honestly say he is only an average 2nd liner.

Grabo has also barely missed any games the last two seasons which has helped his place in the scoring standings unlike superior centers like Zajac, J. Staal, Backstrom, M. Koivu.

Yes, he gets a decent amount of points but even on a bad team somebody has to score. Grabo has been put into an offensive role with minimal defensive responsibilities unlike some other centers who are much more difficult to play and score less because of the role they have been put into. Guys like Bolland, Berglund, Richards.

Grabo belongs in the same class of player as guys like Jokinen and Wheeler who are average 2nd liner. Guys who can be in that 50-65 point range but who also aren't overly difficult players to play against.

The whole Grabo has heart think also is overhyped. Yes, it's great that he wears his heart on his sleeve which makes him a fan favourite but as for the actual impact that has on winning it's minimal.

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Old
10-13-2012, 01:09 PM
  #64
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you really think burke's plan is to get worse in the offseason?

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Old
10-14-2012, 01:59 AM
  #65
Michael Gary Scott
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Muuuuuch rather grabo.

Wilson filla no need for us. We just give up the much better player leaving us with another huge hole at C
um. a 6'1 215lb centerman isnt what the leafs need? Okay then...

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Old
10-14-2012, 10:22 AM
  #66
Flair Hay
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricky Bobby View Post
As a Leafs fan I can honestly say he is only an average 2nd liner.

Grabo has also barely missed any games the last two seasons which has helped his place in the scoring standings unlike superior centers like Zajac, J. Staal, Backstrom, M. Koivu.

Yes, he gets a decent amount of points but even on a bad team somebody has to score. Grabo has been put into an offensive role with minimal defensive responsibilities unlike some other centers who are much more difficult to play and score less because of the role they have been put into. Guys like Bolland, Berglund, Richards.

Grabo belongs in the same class of player as guys like Jokinen and Wheeler who are average 2nd liner. Guys who can be in that 50-65 point range but who also aren't overly difficult players to play against.

The whole Grabo has heart think also is overhyped. Yes, it's great that he wears his heart on his sleeve which makes him a fan favourite but as for the actual impact that has on winning it's minimal.
Good post. I don't care about stats, if you are an above average second liner that should mean you'd be a #2 on a cup contender. He's close, but might not look too great against Malkin on Datsyuk over 7 games..

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Old
10-15-2012, 08:46 AM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Michael Gary Scott View Post
um. a 6'1 215lb centerman isnt what the leafs need? Okay then...

Wilson hasnt proven to be worth grabo.

What the leafs need is a number 1 C. Like, a legitimate one. Wilson is not that.

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Old
10-15-2012, 09:48 AM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roman Abramovich View Post
Good proposal, but Toronto needs to add imo. Wilson is a future 1 C/W.

To Toronto:
Wilson
2014 4th Round Pick
2014 6th Round Pick

To Nashville:
Grabovski
Blacker
2nd
Oh god that's bad....there is no way in hell your getting Grabo+Blacker+a 2nd for Colin Wilson.

Only on HF is a prospect 4 years removed from his draft year and has yet to crack a top 6 fwd group worth more than a guy that has put up 50+ pts each of the last three years.

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Old
10-15-2012, 09:52 AM
  #69
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There's no reason for Toronto to do this. Our center depth is laughable and removing our best-producing center isn't the smartest thing we can do right now.

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Old
10-15-2012, 11:07 AM
  #70
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Reimer for Rinne+?

Rinne at Reimer's current age wasn't even in the NHL yet. Rinne didn't make it to the NHL full time until he was 25. Reimer already has 71 games under his belt by the age 24. You add to make up for the age difference.
Not sure if serious?

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Old
10-15-2012, 11:20 AM
  #71
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Not sure if serious?
You don't get what he's going for... not sure if serious.

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Old
10-15-2012, 05:41 PM
  #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricky Bobby View Post
As a Leafs fan I can honestly say he is only an average 2nd liner.

Grabo has also barely missed any games the last two seasons which has helped his place in the scoring standings unlike superior centers like Zajac, J. Staal, Backstrom, M. Koivu.

Yes, he gets a decent amount of points but even on a bad team somebody has to score. Grabo has been put into an offensive role with minimal defensive responsibilities unlike some other centers who are much more difficult to play and score less because of the role they have been put into. Guys like Bolland, Berglund, Richards.

Grabo belongs in the same class of player as guys like Jokinen and Wheeler who are average 2nd liner. Guys who can be in that 50-65 point range but who also aren't overly difficult players to play against.

The whole Grabo has heart think also is overhyped. Yes, it's great that he wears his heart on his sleeve which makes him a fan favourite but as for the actual impact that has on winning it's minimal.
Then why did Wilson repeatedly say that not only was Grabo's line used as a shutdown line against other team's top lines, but that he found that they played best in those type of situations?

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Old
10-15-2012, 06:19 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by Ricky Bobby View Post
As a Leafs fan I can honestly say he is only an average 2nd liner.

Grabo has also barely missed any games the last two seasons which has helped his place in the scoring standings unlike superior centers like Zajac, J. Staal, Backstrom, M. Koivu.

Yes, he gets a decent amount of points but even on a bad team somebody has to score. Grabo has been put into an offensive role with minimal defensive responsibilities unlike some other centers who are much more difficult to play and score less because of the role they have been put into. Guys like Bolland, Berglund, Richards.

Grabo belongs in the same class of player as guys like Jokinen and Wheeler who are average 2nd liner. Guys who can be in that 50-65 point range but who also aren't overly difficult players to play against.

The whole Grabo has heart think also is overhyped. Yes, it's great that he wears his heart on his sleeve which makes him a fan favourite but as for the actual impact that has on winning it's minimal.
This is just wrong.

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Old
10-15-2012, 06:31 PM
  #74
Ricky Bobby
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This is just wrong.
He is such a great shutdown center that he's almost never used on the penalty kill.

Grabo is put into more of an offensive type role on a run n gun team then superior centers that are much tougher to play against like Richards, Berglund, J. Staal, Bolland. He might be called the "shutdown" center on the Leafs but that is by default cause we're so weak at that position.

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Old
10-15-2012, 08:06 PM
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricky Bobby View Post
He is such a great shutdown center that he's almost never used on the penalty kill.

Grabo is put into more of an offensive type role on a run n gun team then superior centers that are much tougher to play against like Richards, Berglund, J. Staal, Bolland. He might be called the "shutdown" center on the Leafs but that is by default cause we're so weak at that position.
So now you're flopping from your statement that he was given minimum defensive responsibilities?

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