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Old
10-12-2012, 01:27 AM
  #151
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
I think Weber is a good player who did not respond well to the uncertainty and rapid changes that coaches demanded of him in Montreal.
DA usually agree with you, and you state a fact, but to me, good players adjust to change, that's why they stay in the NHL.

I would give Weber one more year, but he will have to clearly beat out someone ahead of him. I think he will have to be very good, not just average.

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10-12-2012, 01:37 AM
  #152
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Originally Posted by bsl View Post
DA usually agree with you, and you state a fact, but to me, good players adjust to change, that's why they stay in the NHL.

I would give Weber one more year, but he will have to clearly beat out someone ahead of him. I think he will have to be very good, not just average.
It's certainly true that lack of versatility and poor adaptability to change could be argued to be a knock against him. To be honest I don't know enough about the game to say if it's legitimate to criticize a dman for not performing well on a 4th line role.

I agree on one more year for Weber. Not out of any morality ideal, but simply because one more year (without a lockout) represents the facts on the ground. At the start of 2013-2014; at least one out of {Beaulieu, Tinordi, Ellis, Pateryn} will be ready to compete for the 7th and possibly 6th dman role.

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10-12-2012, 02:22 AM
  #153
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Originally Posted by bsl View Post
DA usually agree with you, and you state a fact, but to me, good players adjust to change, that's why they stay in the NHL.

I would give Weber one more year, but he will have to clearly beat out someone ahead of him. I think he will have to be very good, not just average.
good players yes, but no one is asking him to be a #4 D... 5th or 6th with PP time (kid has a great shot). and 5th/6th D usually dont respond as well to changes, wether it's system, side, partners, whatever (otherwise they'd be top 4 )...

and in his case, it's more than changes... the kid went from 4th line, to scratch, to 4th D, to 4th line, scratched again, to 6th D, 6th D again with different partner, PP on the left, different coach, different system, PP on the right - all in the same year... think the only thing he didnt do is goalie...

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10-12-2012, 02:25 AM
  #154
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
It's certainly true that lack of versatility and poor adaptability to change could be argued to be a knock against him. To be honest I don't know enough about the game to say if it's legitimate to criticize a dman for not performing well on a 4th line role.

I agree on one more year for Weber. Not out of any morality ideal, but simply because one more year (without a lockout) represents the facts on the ground. At the start of 2013-2014; at least one out of {Beaulieu, Tinordi, Ellis, Pateryn} will be ready to compete for the 7th and possibly 6th dman role.
dont want a 21 years old D to be a healthy scrath more often than not... they need to develop and round up their game

and they do that by playing, a lot. Best place for that, AHL.

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10-12-2012, 06:42 AM
  #155
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
no need to, every team needs D in case of injury. Besides, him playing him in the AHL pretty much guarantees he wont play for the Habs ever, guy is on his last year, at half the price (re-call) pretty sure he gets claimed... at worst, he'll find work on a sucky team next year or go back to Europe. End of the line, we'll lose him for nothing... he'll go at the bottom of a very long list.
So basically, you're calling for the Habs to keep a non-NHL'er on the roster, so he won't get claimed on the waivers, in order not to lose him for nothing. In which process we'd end up losing a real NHL'er on the waivers, in order to keep a non-NHL'er on the roster...

That's... funny, at the very best.

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10-12-2012, 08:01 AM
  #156
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Originally Posted by DAChampion View Post
I think Weber is a good player who did not respond well to the uncertainty and rapid changes that coaches demanded of him in Montreal.
If this is true, the lock-out could be good for him. He could play a whole
year of Top 4 D in Europe. Maybe he would finally put his game together with
some consistency.
But I personally though he was becoming a decent 4th liner. And If he
were to settle into a 7th D role in the NHL, being able to play 4th line is a
good ability to have. It may be enough to stay in the league ahead of
someone like St Denis.
But I a fan of using 7th D as forwards. That makes me usual on these
Boards.

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10-12-2012, 08:58 AM
  #157
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All this for a player who cannot make the roster on a thin blue line.

I too remember a few good slap shots from Weber, back in the day before any opposing player knew they should check him. Since then? Bad in his end, never seems to like his set up pass, does not get the puck to the net as a true shooter should.

He had his shot, showed some potential, plateau'd, others came (Subban, Diaz, Emelin) and outshone him, he did not adjust, others are coming (Patteryn, Beaulieu, Tinordi, Nash), will Weber be able to wrestle back a spot?

It is up to him.

I would not put money on it.

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10-12-2012, 10:08 AM
  #158
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His team seems to be kickin it good atm. He is probably getting some good and steady ice, and I'm guessing lots of PP action with Bezina. So hopefully this is like that extra development year he seemed to need. He was pretty good at the start of last season, and even if things went off the rails thereafter, I still see him as a decent NHL player. In the #5-6 guy with PP-fill-in capacity, anyway.

As long as you aren't overpaying for that player, and as long as that player type fits in with the rest of the makeup of your D, then that's a player well worth having. In our case, it's just not quite as clear that it would fit our team composition, obviously now with Markov and Kaberle around in addition to PK and Diaz, but even as Markov and/or Kaberle move on, presumably Beaulieu is coming too. So it'll probably continue to be a tough haul for Weber to make his mark with us. But those guys tend to bounce around a lot anyway, it won't be unusual if Weber moves around to some other teams too. I wouldn't undersell him just on that basis. But it's probably inevitable at some point.

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10-12-2012, 11:09 AM
  #159
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Originally Posted by MXD View Post
So basically, you're calling for the Habs to keep a non-NHL'er on the roster, so he won't get claimed on the waivers, in order not to lose him for nothing. In which process we'd end up losing a real NHL'er on the waivers, in order to keep a non-NHL'er on the roster...

That's... funny, at the very best.
funniest part would be you telling us with REAL nhl'er we would lose

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10-12-2012, 11:12 AM
  #160
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Originally Posted by Joe Cole View Post
All this for a player who cannot make the roster on a thin blue line.

I too remember a few good slap shots from Weber, back in the day before any opposing player knew they should check him. Since then? Bad in his end, never seems to like his set up pass, does not get the puck to the net as a true shooter should.

He had his shot, showed some potential, plateau'd, others came (Subban, Diaz, Emelin) and outshone him, he did not adjust, others are coming (Patteryn, Beaulieu, Tinordi, Nash), will Weber be able to wrestle back a spot?

It is up to him.

I would not put money on it.
that's probably why he's among the best D in the league for PP goals...

and that's also probably why the only D who scored as much as him on the PP last season was Subban (needed more games and more PP time to do so, guess he's bad too?)...

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10-12-2012, 11:21 AM
  #161
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Originally Posted by Blind Gardien View Post
His team seems to be kickin it good atm. He is probably getting some good and steady ice, and I'm guessing lots of PP action with Bezina. So hopefully this is like that extra development year he seemed to need. He was pretty good at the start of last season, and even if things went off the rails thereafter, I still see him as a decent NHL player. In the #5-6 guy with PP-fill-in capacity, anyway.

As long as you aren't overpaying for that player, and as long as that player type fits in with the rest of the makeup of your D, then that's a player well worth having. In our case, it's just not quite as clear that it would fit our team composition, obviously now with Markov and Kaberle around in addition to PK and Diaz, but even as Markov and/or Kaberle move on, presumably Beaulieu is coming too. So it'll probably continue to be a tough haul for Weber to make his mark with us. But those guys tend to bounce around a lot anyway, it won't be unusual if Weber moves around to some other teams too. I wouldn't undersell him just on that basis. But it's probably inevitable at some point.
this.

considering we managed to get by the Crosby, OV and co in the PO with MaB as a regular D, I dont see why a guy like him couldnt make it as a 5th/6th with PP time. If anything, maybe we should stop blaming him and other bottom pairing D... not their fault our top 4 sucked, they werent on it! Besides, He has a good enough slapper to get regular PP time (1st wave), if he can get -slightly- better defensively, he'll become a regular D, if not with us, with some other team... so, on a team with a solid top 4, I can easily see him used 6 to 9 a game 5 on 5 + 1st wave PP.

Guys like St Denis ? meh, he'll be gone in two years, once we find an equivalent player on waivers or something...

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10-12-2012, 11:24 AM
  #162
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
that's probably why he's among the best D in the league for PP goals...
Who are you talking about, and which league? Surely you're not referring to Weber still, 'cause that's just a laughable statement if so.

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10-12-2012, 12:22 PM
  #163
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
Guys like St Denis ? meh, he'll be gone in two years, once we find an equivalent player on waivers or something...
I wouldn't want to classify St Denis either way yet... I can say I was more impressed with him in 17 games than I've ever been with Weber in the NHL. But it's just 17 games. And he's older. Still, if that cameo from St Denis was indicative of what he may give us over a longer haul, then he could be a challenger to Weber in a utility role as well.

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10-12-2012, 04:22 PM
  #164
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
funniest part would be you telling us with REAL nhl'er we would lose
All that you need to know is that this player will be superior to Yannick Weber.

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10-12-2012, 05:24 PM
  #165
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Who are you talking about, and which league? Surely you're not referring to Weber still, 'cause that's just a laughable statement if so.
http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.h...scoringLeaders

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10-12-2012, 05:28 PM
  #166
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All that you need to know is that this player will be superior to Yannick Weber.
come on now, wanna know... who's going to be that REAL nhl'er we'll be losing ?

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10-12-2012, 05:40 PM
  #167
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
come on now, wanna know... who's going to be that REAL nhl'er we'll be losing ?
Pk Subban, Josh Gorges, Andrei Markov, Alex Emelin, Raphel Diaz, Tomas Kaberle, Francis Bouillon or Yannick Weber are the players on the current Montreal Canadiens roster that have to pass through waivers.

I think there are other ones, but they aren't D's.

(h

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10-12-2012, 06:27 PM
  #168
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Yeah, well if you wanna look at that list and stop thinking once you notice where Weber is on the list, all the power to you. Everyone else will see guys like Erik Karlsson, Mark Streit, Ryan Suter, Drew Doughty, Mike Green, Sergei Gonchar, Brent Seabrook, Bieksa, Fowler, Wisniewski, etc appear right after Weber and realize that his (Weber's) spot at 25th on that list means absolutely nothing wrt "best" at anything. But keep on keepin' on with those beautifully disingenuous stat links.

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10-13-2012, 03:47 AM
  #169
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Yeah, well if you wanna look at that list and stop thinking once you notice where Weber is on the list, all the power to you. Everyone else will see guys like Erik Karlsson, Mark Streit, Ryan Suter, Drew Doughty, Mike Green, Sergei Gonchar, Brent Seabrook, Bieksa, Fowler, Wisniewski, etc appear right after Weber and realize that his (Weber's) spot at 25th on that list means absolutely nothing wrt "best" at anything. But keep on keepin' on with those beautifully disingenuous stat links.
with less games and PP time than most...

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10-13-2012, 03:48 AM
  #170
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Originally Posted by MXD View Post
Pk Subban, Josh Gorges, Andrei Markov, Alex Emelin, Raphel Diaz, Tomas Kaberle, Francis Bouillon or Yannick Weber are the players on the current Montreal Canadiens roster that have to pass through waivers.

I think there are other ones, but they aren't D's.

(h
and you think it would be smart to lose Weber (for nothing) for not even a full year of Cube ?

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10-13-2012, 07:03 AM
  #171
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and you think it would be smart to lose Weber (for nothing) for not even a full year of Cube ?
I think it would be extremely stupid to send a player to farm and have it count towards the cap, and besides, Bouillon is the better player.

Unless Weber comes back completely transformed from Switzerland, which is actually not impossible at all.

Actually, I wouldn't be surprised to see the Habs "loan" Weber to his current team, and toll his contact for next season.

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10-13-2012, 07:38 AM
  #172
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with less games and PP time than most...
Sorry, he was top 50 among defensemen with 2:49 PP TOI/game and he was almost top 50 in overall PP TOI, as well, with 169:39 total. But yeah, other than that.

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10-13-2012, 01:29 PM
  #173
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Sorry, he was top 50 among defensemen with 2:49 PP TOI/game and he was almost top 50 in overall PP TOI, as well, with 169:39 total. But yeah, other than that.
lemme guess, others you named who are right behind him are also top 50... and they probably played more than the kid...

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10-13-2012, 01:32 PM
  #174
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I think it would be extremely stupid to send a player to farm and have it count towards the cap, and besides, Bouillon is the better player.

Unless Weber comes back completely transformed from Switzerland, which is actually not impossible at all.

Actually, I wouldn't be surprised to see the Habs "loan" Weber to his current team, and toll his contact for next season.
irrelevant : Cube has a ONE year contract the year the NHL is in lockout...

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10-13-2012, 01:49 PM
  #175
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lemme guess, others you named who are right behind him are also top 50... and they probably played more than the kid...
So Yannick Weber is a better PP goal scorer than Shea Weber?

A PP shooter has to get lucky to get some goals from the blue line, they are usually well covered (especially the guys with big accurate shots) and have to shoot trough traffic. Most of the goals that result from PP point shots are deflections or rebounds. Defensemen that actually score a lot of goals usually do so by getting closer to the net and using wrist shots or snapshots rather than blue line slap shots. There are exception (prime Souray, Chara, Shea Weber sometimes...) but YWeber is not one of them.

YWeber has 4 PP assists (we can assume at least a few of them are a result of deflection or rebounds), thats not really impressive. His PP contribution is at the level of what one would expect from a second pairing PP producer. He's like a poor man's MAB. In conclusion Weber is a PP specialist but not a very good one.

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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI
irrelevant : Cube has a ONE year contract the year the NHL is in lockout...
There are cheap UFAs available every year and most of them would be more useful than Weber.

In two years, who is Weber going to play ahead of? We have a ton of defensemen prospect who project to be much better than him.


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