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Lake Erie releases roster.

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Old
10-11-2012, 10:41 PM
  #51
CalderKing21
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Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
Gotcha, guess I assumed being a fan of the team people wouldn't expect me to not want to see improvement where possible.

I was posting under the assumption that if nothing were to change for whatever reason, I'd rather Pracey stick to what he's good at and gets results from. Just like last season, if he felt a numnber of CHLers were the BPAs, I would rather give them a shot than shoot for a homerun in Nermark every draft. The odds for our scouts are in the favor of where our most talented scouts are at (CHL?).
but that's my point, there shouldn't be just one league or specific area where we have to go back to all the time and hang our hat on.
the scouting department should be adept enough to find talent all over.
a potential preference is one thing, but sometimes the drafting reminds me of how they try to hire GM's with ties to the Avs instead of hiring the best potential guy even if he doesn't fit the exact mold.

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10-11-2012, 11:02 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by CalderKing21 View Post
but that's my point, there shouldn't be just one league or specific area where we have to go back to all the time and hang our hat on.
the scouting department should be adept enough to find talent all over.
a potential preference is one thing, but sometimes the drafting reminds me of how they try to hire GM's with ties to the Avs instead of hiring the best potential guy even if he doesn't fit the exact mold.
It's easy to say a team should draft from all over the world but when the playing ground for teams is not level everywhere, it just becomes harder. Do not forget that drafted international player's rights used to be much longer than the current two years with the recent cba. With so many youngsters playing at the highest levels for their area, but not getting the quality time to see what they can do...it is really hard to determine what they may bring to your organization. You have the possibility of very little exposure to a player prior to and after drafting them when it comes to international players.
CHL players have far more exposure and quality opportunities to show what they can do. And then you have college players who give you around 4 years to see how they develop.
Detroit loves drafting internationally but they have not produced much since the early 2000's with their overseas players. Sure they have some nice prospects right now but that has been said before. Too easy for even the good prospects to give up and play at home...unlike NA prospects.

Draft your forwards from the O, your defense from the W and your goalies from the Q. Or just do what Montreal does and draft all the name players.

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Old
10-11-2012, 11:03 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by CalderKing21 View Post
but that's my point, there shouldn't be just one league or specific area where we have to go back to all the time and hang our hat on.
the scouting department should be adept enough to find talent all over.
a potential preference is one thing, but sometimes the drafting reminds me of how they try to hire GM's with ties to the Avs instead of hiring the best potential guy even if he doesn't fit the exact mold.
But you don't really know what's going on behind closed doors in the scouting department. I would wager so much of every NHL teams scouting records and strategies are really more born out of circumstances than anything else. Where you were picking in a round and who was available has so much of a baring on who teams have picked.

I think you're also on a hiding to nothing sometimes when you have high draft picks. Picking 3rd in 2009 once Hedman and Tavares were off the table, should we really have picked anyone else other than Duchene? If they hadn't big questions would have been asked. Then if Duchene lives up to expectations the scouts don't get much credit because they really had to pick him, no choice. And if he busts then that's the scouts fault. Tough position to be in sometimes.

But beside that, I'm sure they are focusing more in NA than anywhere else but that just makes more fiscal sense. They are a business, the Avs, and every team. It would be so much more expensive to scout in Europe and the player pool is smaller to choose from and the coaching available to kids has far more variance than in Canada for example. You are just more likely to find talent in Canada than in Europe at the moment, it's just the way it is. not saying one is more talented than the other, just saying you can find a draft worthy player in a small town in canada that you can drive too while the team is in Toronto, or you can organise a trip, travel to Omsk to watch a game, and come out of it with nothing. If there was nothing in the game in Toronto no big loss, but getting nothing out of the Omsk trip is a huge waste. It's more risky is my point. Not totally worthless but more risky. Net returns are going to be smaller so you have to be more careful about your scouting there.

Then even after all the time you spend in Europe scouting, it might come to draft day and all the guys you wanted are taken before your pick. Then what?

There's too much assuming going on in this thread, and assuming things is fine but to get upset about points you made based on assumption isn't constructive. Perhaps upset is the wrong word - but we are seeing some fervent defenses being made of points that were based on an assumption. Even if you've based your assumption of logic or some facts it's still an assumption and it's not worth defending so stringently.

All that said, don't forget you're all good blokes and I got nothing against you personally. Drizzt don't go comparing yourself to members of aussie parliament too often though, mate! Not a lot there I'd want to be associated with! Haha. Just jokes of course.

This lockout sucks though, don't it? Just getting back to the Monsters - is a place that will stream those games? Gotta watch something.

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Old
10-11-2012, 11:10 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
Gotcha, guess I assumed being a fan of the team people wouldn't expect me to not want to see improvement where possible.

I was posting under the assumption that if nothing were to change for whatever reason, I'd rather Pracey stick to what he's good at and gets results from. Just like last season, if he felt a numnber of CHLers were the BPAs, I would rather give them a shot than shoot for a homerun in Nermark every draft. The odds for our scouts are in the favor of where our most talented scouts are at (CHL?).
What results? Ryan O'Reilly? What else? Also, acquiring a player isn't a result imo. A result is acquiring a collective group that enables play-off contention, and having a shot at a cup, which we clearly don't at present

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Old
10-11-2012, 11:27 PM
  #55
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I think that's a pretty negative assessment. You're judging Duchene off one bad injury affected season, ignoring Barrie, Elliot, Gaunce who are still progressing, ignoring Landeskog and Seimens has highly tauted potential and one is already the captain. Hishon's first year in juniors after we drafted him was stellar and we can't crucify scouting for a concussion. I just don't know why you are expecting a bunch of kids all under 22 years old should be expected to be in charge of taking this team to the playoffs RIGHT NOW. It's not happening for a few years. If we make it in at all it's because everyone is playing well but to expect our scouting of the last 4 years to be saving us is just sillyness, isn't it? One of those years was last year and only one of those guys is in our squad. Another year our draft pick has been injured and we can't assess yet. The other year we nailed it. But that's enough to judge it as a failure. Don't get where you're coming from at all.

And if you want to blame Pracey for trades can't you give him credit as well, for McGinn, Downie, Johnson. They are all still very young and not been in a position to do anything worthwhile for us yet, but if you want to judge them it would have to be solely on their performances so far, and they've been great so far in my op. If they do do everything by committee would he not then also deserve credit for the Varlamov signing?

But outside of all that, the current squad hasn't even played together yet!? Youngest in the league and not many years removed from when the core was drafted. When we've played well we have finished middle of the back, or just below it. The two seasons we tanked we know why that happened and it wasn't because the players we had were bad and drafted by Pracey. Duchene's best year so far was the year we tanked and got Landeskog. Our other shocking year had nothing to do with Pracey. The other two years we made the playoffs and missed the playoffs after some bad play / injuries at the end of the year.

I'm just confused by the metrics you're using to judge draftees. The only one who's played three years of NHL level hockey is O'Reilly who you don't have a problem with. Maybe give the other guys three full years. Drafts are all done with an eye on the future. When an 18 year old is drafted he has a potential 20 years ahead of him so you need to have that long of an idea in your head about the future for your team. I think it's dumb to try and draft your way to an immediate stanley cup win. It even took Crosby three or more years to win his cup after being drafted. It takes time!!

Anyway, that's me for this thread. You're all alright. Keep up the good chats during the offseason, my works really boring at the moment.

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Old
10-12-2012, 07:28 AM
  #56
Pierce Hawthorne
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drizzt1 View Post
What results? Ryan O'Reilly? What else? Also, acquiring a player isn't a result imo. A result is acquiring a collective group that enables play-off contention, and having a shot at a cup, which we clearly don't at present
So what exactly was last year then?


Seriously theres negativity, and then theres you. Why continuously bother posting and rooting for the Avs if all your going to do is bash on them and claim that we havent done anything...

Just change teams already.

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Old
10-12-2012, 07:42 AM
  #57
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I agree hes semi bi-polar with this, i think the team is gonna do pretty darn good soon to even call duchene out at this point is ridiculous... maybe hes one of them crazy over reacting fans or just not a true fan and should just move on and watch edmonton or the penguins if he wants to see a team in it all now mode

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Old
10-12-2012, 08:07 AM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drizzt1 View Post
What results? Ryan O'Reilly? What else? Also, acquiring a player isn't a result imo. A result is acquiring a collective group that enables play-off contention, and having a shot at a cup, which we clearly don't at present
Unlike the others, I do feel that Pracey has been given increasing power in the pro scouting department, playing a huge role in the acquisition of McGinn + Sgarbossa and in my opinion the EJ trade. But that may be in part due to my belief that Sherman is a GM by committee, rather than doing everything himself.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/draftstats.ht...d=nav-ply-drft

Do you know what success is with prospects? 25%. If 25% of your prospects from any given year see even a handful of games in the NHL they are success stories (yes, TJ Hensick is a success story). What's a homerun? When Pracey drafts four players with excellent NHL upside in 2009, claims a 2nd round pick is top 15 in the draft from day 1 and hasn't been wrong since. Trades up and down in order to acquire Elliott & Barrie, both of whom won WHL defenseman of the year trophies.

So while you may be of the opinion we've done nothing to fix our current problems and this team is sinking faster than the Titanic, I like to believe that our recent drafting success and aggressive management by Sherman coupled with young studs like Duchene, Landeskog, O'Reilly, Varlamov and Johnson will lead us back to the promise lands.

The real difference though? I don't stress out about the team being where it is at, you act as if the world will end if Sherman doesn't find a way to get us into the playoffs tomorrow morning. Whether that's your intentions or not is not my concern.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Landeskog The Viking View Post
I agree hes semi bi-polar with this, i think the team is gonna do pretty darn good soon to even call duchene out at this point is ridiculous... maybe hes one of them crazy over reacting fans or just not a true fan and should just move on and watch edmonton or the penguins if he wants to see a team in it all now mode
He's actually a pretty passionate fan, but tends to take the negative viewpoint more than view the team in a positive light in an attempt to try and keep his bias out of the picture. Which would probably make more sense if he were discussing with an Oilers fan or something.

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Old
10-12-2012, 12:12 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
No offense man, but you're being individualized because you're alone in some of your opinions around here.

Share all you want, but don't expect other people to kindly agree with something you say when they rather bluntly think the idea is drivel.
It doesn't excuse people taking shots at him individually. He has a unique opinion. So what?

This has long been a problem on this forum. Any number of people can post pro-Avalanche pom-pom waving content without any supporting factual information, and typically they receive very little resulting negative feedback in return. But if someone posts even well thought out or factually supported information that happens to be negative about the Avs, that person more often than not gets piled on pretty heavily. Pro-Avs = . Anti-Avs = 'drivel'. Too bad it's like that.

As for the topic at hand, I have no idea who makes what decisions regarding prospects, but I believe that the drafting/development success has been OK in recent years. I honestly don't believe that too many kudos should be given to a team drafting 4th line/7th dman plugs, and then talking about "the Avs have put more players in the NHL than...etc". The fact that Derek Peltier managed 14 NHL games in his career isn't worthy of drafting praise.

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Old
10-12-2012, 12:17 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
Do you know what success is with prospects? 25%. If 25% of your prospects from any given year see even a handful of games in the NHL they are success stories (yes, TJ Hensick is a success story).
I don't think I'm on board with this point of view. Sure, it's nice when temporary 4th line plugs get a sniff of the NHL, but is that really success? I don't think that matters all that much at all.

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Old
10-12-2012, 12:17 PM
  #61
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So... About that Lake Erie team...

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Old
10-12-2012, 01:41 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Zandar View Post
So... About that Lake Erie team...


I'm going to listen to their season opener tonight. I'm even a bit excited because that'll possibly be the closest thing to Avs hockey this year.

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Old
10-12-2012, 01:48 PM
  #63
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Is there any way we can watch the game tonight?

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Old
10-12-2012, 05:42 PM
  #64
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Is there any way we can watch the game tonight?
Hockeystreams.com has it in their list of games tonight. Kind of a grey area in terms of legality though...

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Old
10-12-2012, 06:09 PM
  #65
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How about taking this to the existing Lake Erie thread eh?

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