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Voracek/Simmonds

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Old
10-12-2012, 01:20 PM
  #76
feedingschennzy
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Originally Posted by schism View Post
Trading Edler opens up a huge hole, there's no point to that trade. We'd be left with Bieksa as our only offensive d-man. I don't think we have the assets to do it since we shouldn't trade Edler and the Flyers are stuck with Bryz/can't trade for Luongo.

At best we could do a futures package, but there isn't really an incentive for Philly to do that.
Didn't you just sign Garrison? He could take a bigger role on... Your defense is very solid even without Edler. I think a guy like simmonds is huge for vancouver who needs
Some physicality

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10-12-2012, 01:21 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by capitalsrock View Post
Phi: Gustafsson
Voracek
3rd/4th

Van: Edler
Not enough to merit moving Edler. I understand the Flyers may value him less due to his contract situation, but losing him would make a bigger impact than gaining Voracek. We'd probably need to base a deal around Edler+ for 2 roster players to make it worthwhile to us.

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10-12-2012, 01:23 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Fan Of Every Anton View Post
Bryzgalov has a higher cap hit than Luongo though, I just don't see how that benefits the Canucks.

Assuming Schneider is the #1 with either of those guys, it's swapping one expensive backup for an even more expensive one.
Our problem isn't keeping an expensive backup, that's not why we're trading him. It's that it would be better asset management if we could convert Luongo into forward help.

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10-12-2012, 01:23 PM
  #79
feedingschennzy
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Originally Posted by capitalsrock View Post
Phi: Gustafsson
Voracek
3rd/4th

Van: Edler
That seems fair if he is going to resign with us. Maybe we get a trash prospect or late pick to fill out our roster but as a flyers fan id do that. Defensive studs don't come too cheap

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Old
10-12-2012, 01:36 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by cdugan View Post
Didn't you just sign Garrison? He could take a bigger role on... Your defense is very solid even without Edler. I think a guy like simmonds is huge for vancouver who needs
Some physicality
Garrison was signed to replace Salo. Without Edler our D-Core would be:

Hamhuis-Bieksa
Ballard-Garrison
Alberts-Tanev
Rookie

If we're trading Edler then we need another defenseman back. Specifically one with some offensive ability. However like I previously mentioned, that defenseman could theoretically be acquired in a Lu deal, in which case I would absolutely entertain moving Edler for Simmonds/Voracek+.

Out of curiosity which of those two right wingers is held in higher esteem by Flyers fans?

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Old
10-12-2012, 02:36 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by cdugan View Post
Didn't you just sign Garrison? He could take a bigger role on... Your defense is very solid even without Edler. I think a guy like simmonds is huge for vancouver who needs
Some physicality
Our defense without Edler severely lacks offensive talent. I see Garrison as a shutdown guy with a cannon, but not someone who can create offense. We missed Ehrhoff a lot last year but were able to mitigate the loss by using Edler in almost all offensive scenarios. If we lose Edler too, it's a huge gap.

I guess if we were able to do something like a Lu for Kulikov trade then trading Edler isn't complete lunacy. But even then Edler would command a Richards/Carter return, it wouldn't be Voracek or Simmonds straight up.

Personally I'm hoping Kassian takes a strong step in development this year. We need a big, tough, playmaking winger alongside Kesler and Booth... that describes Kassian when he's on his game. I'd rather wait and see on that than trade Edler.

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Old
10-12-2012, 02:46 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by schism View Post
But even then Edler would command a Richards/Carter return, it wouldn't be Voracek or Simmonds straight up.
One year off from UFA he certainly wouldn't. If the Canucks were to acquire a capable offensive defenseman in a Luongo trade and are unable to come to terms on an exntension with Edler, than a deal based around either Voracek or Simmonds could make some sense for the Canucks. Personally I think Voracek would be a great linemate for Kesler.

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Old
10-12-2012, 03:09 PM
  #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Our problem isn't keeping an expensive backup, that's not why we're trading him. It's that it would be better asset management if we could convert Luongo into forward help.
Valid point, Vancouver does need an upgrade for their forwards, but I think it'd be risky cap management to take on more salary when Edler is due a big raise. It does make Vancouver better in the short term, but another question is whether Philadelphia is willing to pay that to upgrade Bryz for Luongo. I don't think Bryz is that bad personally but Luongo would be a clear step up.

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10-12-2012, 03:26 PM
  #84
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There is no reasonable trade that can be made for either player. The only thing that the flyers need is a bonafide 1# defenseman. Something that Van are not willing to give up, nor should they.

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Old
10-12-2012, 04:24 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
There is no reasonable trade that can be made for either player. The only thing that the flyers need is a bonafide 1# defenseman. Something that Van are not willing to give up, nor should they.
You're almost certainly right.

That being said, IF the Canucks could move Luongo in a deal that returned a defenseman with the potential to be an impact player in the offensive zone (who was fairly close to realizing that potential) and IF the Edler camp were asking for a contract way out of whack with the Canucks structure then it seems like there could be a deal to be made.

Two very large IFs.

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Old
10-12-2012, 05:35 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
There is no reasonable trade that can be made for either player. The only thing that the flyers need is a bonafide 1# defenseman. Something that Van are not willing to give up, nor should they.
When did the flyers get a bonafide #1 goalie???

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10-12-2012, 05:55 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Central Scrutinizer View Post
When did the flyers get a bonafide #1 goalie???
Unfortunately the Flyers have Bryzgalov signed to a ridiculous contract. So unless they can get rid of that contract, they have a bigger need for a #1 d-man than an elite goalie.

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10-12-2012, 05:57 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by RJ8812 View Post
The Flyers wouldnt move Schenn for Weber, so what makes you think they would for Edler?
The Flyers have inept management if they didn't pull the trigger on that.

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10-12-2012, 06:01 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Tortorella View Post
The Flyers have inept management if they didn't pull the trigger on that.
I agree.

I don't know why people keep saying that though (for Schenn or Couturier).

Holmgren refused to trade Couturier AND Schenn ++ for Weber. If he refused to trade one of them (obviously with more added on, just not both of them), then he should be fired.

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10-12-2012, 06:43 PM
  #90
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Really don't understand why Edler is on the chopping block for a lot of Canuck fans. Who's going to run Vancouver's PP? Vancouver would suddenly go from one of the strongest d-cores in the league to very very average. This is definitely not the price we should pay for Simmonds or Voracek, who would improve an already strong forward core.

Doesn't make sense.

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Old
10-12-2012, 06:49 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by CanuckLuck View Post
Really don't understand why Edler is on the chopping block for a lot of Canuck fans. Who's going to run Vancouver's PP? Vancouver would suddenly go from one of the strongest d-cores in the league to very very average. This is definitely not the price we should pay for Simmonds or Voracek, who would improve an already strong forward core.

Doesn't make sense.
While I agree with not trading Edler, the person who would run our PP would still be Hank.

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10-12-2012, 07:02 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by racerjoe View Post
While I agree with not trading Edler, the person who would run our PP would still be Hank.
Our PP would drop to middle of the pack without Edler, even though Hank is our PP quarterback. He's very smart on the point and usually always makes the right decision.

I'm glad we agree he's too valuable. Losing Edler not only weakens our defense significantly, it also weakens our special teams. And for what? 20-30 goals from the 2nd line? Some Nuck' fans have lost sight.

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10-12-2012, 08:21 PM
  #93
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Would love to get a player like Simmonds in EDM?

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10-12-2012, 11:26 PM
  #94
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Would love to get a player like Simmonds in EDM?
Get a top pairing defenseman, then trade him to Philadelphia for a package that includes him.

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Old
10-13-2012, 08:35 AM
  #95
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Originally Posted by CanuckLuck View Post
Our PP would drop to middle of the pack without Edler, even though Hank is our PP quarterback. He's very smart on the point and usually always makes the right decision.

I'm glad we agree he's too valuable. Losing Edler not only weakens our defense significantly, it also weakens our special teams. And for what? 20-30 goals from the 2nd line? Some Nuck' fans have lost sight.
I almost completely agree, we Canucks fans seem to way over value a 2nd line winger. IMO, a lot of the time we are looking for the wrong type of 2nd line winger. IMO I would much rather a pass first type of guy like Whitney, to go with our two shoot first guys Booth and Kes.

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10-13-2012, 05:41 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by racerjoe View Post
I almost completely agree, we Canucks fans seem to way over value a 2nd line winger. IMO, a lot of the time we are looking for the wrong type of 2nd line winger. IMO I would much rather a pass first type of guy like Whitney, to go with our two shoot first guys Booth and Kes.
Voracek is pass first.

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10-14-2012, 03:21 AM
  #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snotbubbles View Post
Voracek is pass first.
I agree with this.

I am super hesitant to trade Voracek though. I think he is not any better at producing points than he is at anything else, and he's still a 50 point guy (+/-a few points). So I value him unusually high for a second line winger. Where as Simmonds almost hit 30 goals this year and I still see his value as being less than Voracek's. I have to wonder how uncommon this view is among Flyer fans? I would be interested to hear everyone's ideas about their value, both in a vacuum and to the team as it is currently constructed.

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10-14-2012, 05:02 AM
  #98
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I agree with this.

I am super hesitant to trade Voracek though. I think he is not any better at producing points than he is at anything else, and he's still a 50 point guy (+/-a few points). So I value him unusually high for a second line winger. Where as Simmonds almost hit 30 goals this year and I still see his value as being less than Voracek's. I have to wonder how uncommon this view is among Flyer fans? I would be interested to hear everyone's ideas about their value, both in a vacuum and to the team as it is currently constructed.
Voracek has stronger puck possesion skills, and explosive speed. He gains entry into the zone so easily and makes good plays off the rush. Simmonds tries to dangle his way thru people and he doesn't have the skill to do it like Voracek does. Simmonds does well in front of the net and that's about it. It got him a ton of goals last year yes, but he doesn't offer much more then that

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Old
10-14-2012, 10:45 PM
  #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PALE PWNR View Post
Voracek has stronger puck possesion skills, and explosive speed. He gains entry into the zone so easily and makes good plays off the rush. Simmonds tries to dangle his way thru people and he doesn't have the skill to do it like Voracek does. Simmonds does well in front of the net and that's about it. It got him a ton of goals last year yes, but he doesn't offer much more then that
I give Simmonds a little more credit than this, and I tend to value results over style, but for the most part we agree about how they differ.

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Old
10-14-2012, 10:57 PM
  #100
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Haven't read through the thread, so I'm assuming this is pretty off topic, but how would Philly fans feels about something around oleksiak for voracek?

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