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Old
10-10-2012, 06:08 PM
  #876
Haute Couturier
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Originally Posted by FLYguy3911 View Post
Gave up on him? What exactly have they given up on that another team has been a beneficiary of? They can still sign him if he's that good, but have chosen not to. They gave up on the likes of Seidenberg and Sharp- guys that have actually produced in the NHL. Not Eriksson. Even if the experiment doesn't work out with Hovinen, I applaud the effort to try and hit a home run. A 6'7 goalie from the country best at producing NHL goaltenders. Call me crazy but I'll take that chance everyday of the week.
If you're two options are 1) a goalie who had one bad year after consistently putting up great numbers or 2) a goalie who had one great year after plenty of mediocre years I'd take a chance with the first one.

The Flyers have no success with goaltending. It's not unreasonable to question their decision making with these two young goalies.

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10-10-2012, 06:38 PM
  #877
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Originally Posted by FLYguy3911 View Post
Gave up on him? What exactly have they given up on that another team has been a beneficiary of? They can still sign him if he's that good, but have chosen not to. They gave up on the likes of Seidenberg and Sharp- guys that have actually produced in the NHL. Not Eriksson. Even if the experiment doesn't work out with Hovinen, I applaud the effort to try and hit a home run. A 6'7 goalie from the country best at producing NHL goaltenders. Call me crazy but I'll take that chance everyday of the week.
ok then why couldnt the Flyers keep both?
this organation has always been impatient wth young defenseman and goaltenders. from Snider down to the fanbase.

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10-10-2012, 08:10 PM
  #878
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Originally Posted by Haute Couturier View Post
If you're two options are 1) a goalie who had one bad year after consistently putting up great numbers or 2) a goalie who had one great year after plenty of mediocre years I'd take a chance with the first one.

The Flyers have no success with goaltending. It's not unreasonable to question their decision making with these two young goalies.
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Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren View Post
ok then why couldnt the Flyers keep both?
this organation has always been impatient wth young defenseman and goaltenders. from Snider down to the fanbase.
Regardless, why else has no one signed him if he's good enough? You mean to tell me all 30 teams passed on a potential NHL goaltender? I'm not buying it. There's more to it than the numbers.

As far as the Flyers' goalie philosophy, it has obviously changed. They are starting to go after bigger goaltenders. Heeter- 6'4, Stolarz- 6'5, Hovinen- 6'7. It's pretty noticeable they are trying something new. We've seen the success Nashville has had with this approach. Not saying it will work out, but again I applaud them for trying a different approach. Time will tell, but I'm willing to bet at least one of them works out.

It's not really a good sign that Hovinen is starting in the ECHL, but I'm not ready to bury the guy just yet. He just had hip surgery. I'd imagine that is pretty significant for a goalie (Nitty). If he can get back to full health and adjust to the NA game (pretty big IF's), I like what he potentially brings to the table. For comparison sake, Rinne came to NA at the same age and didn't have nearly the track record that Hovinen has had up to this point. He also spent 3 whole years in the minors. Again, I'll take a chance on his potential over Eriksson's any day on the week. Not saying I'll be right, but I'd rather take that chance.


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10-10-2012, 08:16 PM
  #879
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Originally Posted by FLYguy3911 View Post
Regardless, why else has no one signed him if he's good enough? You mean to tell me all 30 teams passed on a potential NHL goaltender? I'm not buying it. There's more to it than the numbers.

As far as the Flyers' goalie philosophy, it has obviously changed. They are starting to go after bigger goaltenders. Heeter- 6'4, Stolarz- 6'5, Hovinen- 6'7. It's pretty obvious they are trying something new. We've seen the success Nashville has had with this approach. Not saying it will work out, but again I applaud them for trying a different approach.

It's not really a good sign that Hovinen is starting in the ECHL, but I'm not ready to bury the guy just yet. He just had hip surgery. I'd imagine that is pretty significant for a goalie (Nitty). If he can get back to full health and adjust to the NA game (pretty big IF's), I like what he potentially brings to the table.
Not just the flyers and Nashville approach. Every team is doing it.. If you are bigger, you and your pads take up more room making it harder to score

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Old
10-10-2012, 08:28 PM
  #880
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FLYguy3911 View Post
Regardless, why else has no one signed him if he's good enough? You mean to tell me all 30 teams passed on a potential NHL goaltender? I'm not buying it. There's more to it than the numbers.

As far as the Flyers' goalie philosophy, it has obviously changed. They are starting to go after bigger goaltenders. Heeter- 6'4, Stolarz- 6'5, Hovinen- 6'7. It's pretty noticeable they are trying something new. We've seen the success Nashville has had with this approach. Not saying it will work out, but again I applaud them for trying a different approach. Time will tell, but I'm willing to bet at least one of them works out.

It's not really a good sign that Hovinen is starting in the ECHL, but I'm not ready to bury the guy just yet. He just had hip surgery. I'd imagine that is pretty significant for a goalie (Nitty). If he can get back to full health and adjust to the NA game (pretty big IF's), I like what he potentially brings to the table. For comparison sake, Rinne came to NA at the same age and didn't have nearly the track record that Hovinen has had up to this point. He also spent 3 whole years in the minors. Again, I'll take a chance on his potential over Eriksson's any day on the week. Not saying I'll be right, but I'd rather take that chance.
I already gave you a potential explanation. Maybe teams want to let him do most of his development in Sweden before throwing him a contract. It's too early to say no one is interested therefore he must not be that good. He is still young. Bobrovsky was 22 when he got his chance.

Color me unimpressed with the Flyers philosophy. "Rinne is a mammoth sized goalie so let's search for Rinne clones." Lundqvist, Quick, Luongo, Thomas, etc are all great goalies that aren't massive in size. They don't need to look for the largest goalies they can find. They are just limiting their options by doing that.

I'm not giving up on Hovinen either because he only has started 2 pre-season games in North America. I just feel the Flyers screw up every step of the way when it comes to goaltending and it's perfectly within reason to question that decision.

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10-10-2012, 08:46 PM
  #881
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Originally Posted by Haute Couturier View Post
I already gave you a potential explanation. Maybe teams want to let him do most of his development in Sweden before throwing him a contract. It's too early to say no one is interested therefore he must not be that good. He is still young. Bobrovsky was 22 when he got his chance.

Color me unimpressed with the Flyers philosophy. "Rinne is a mammoth sized goalie so let's search for Rinne clones." Lundqvist, Quick, Luongo, Thomas, etc are all great goalies that aren't massive in size. They don't need to look for the largest goalies they can find. They are just limiting their options by doing that.

I'm not giving up on Hovinen either because he only has started 2 pre-season games in North America. I just feel the Flyers screw up every step of the way when it comes to goaltending and it's perfectly within reason to question that decision.
It's reasonable to question that decision, but at some you have to let it go. I get your frustration with the goaltending problems; I'm right there with you. But at some point you have to just let their decisions be their decisions.

I think the Flyers have definitely moved into the mind frame of bigger goalie = more success. I actually applaud them for having a distinct plan when it comes to goaltender development finally. It represents the first time that the franchise has actually had a plan on what they want their goalie of the future to look like. Hey, it's better than their recent plans of completely dismissing goaltending as a major piece on any team.

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10-10-2012, 08:49 PM
  #882
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Kinda disapointed Noebels is Trenton bound. More disapointed that the Phantoms will be next to impossible to find online

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10-10-2012, 08:54 PM
  #883
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Nick Cousins is off to a good start in the OHL this year. 12 points through 7 games. 5 Goals 7 Assists. 2nd in the league in scoring.

Watching Seth Jones right now play for Portland of the WHL, he was impressive in the first. Score is 0-0 but you know every time he is on the ice. He has a great on ice presence and was pretty physical out there. Also saw that the kid can skate, for being so big he can really get it going. Also has the uncanny ability to avoid fore checkers. Fancy hands for a big fella.

Seth Jones scored his first WHL goal on a beauty. Him and Bjorkstrand have been the two best players on the ice for the Winterhawks. Lukas Sutter has been the best for the Blades.


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10-10-2012, 09:45 PM
  #884
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haute Couturier View Post
I already gave you a potential explanation. Maybe teams want to let him do most of his development in Sweden before throwing him a contract. It's too early to say no one is interested therefore he must not be that good. He is still young. Bobrovsky was 22 when he got his chance.

Color me unimpressed with the Flyers philosophy. "Rinne is a mammoth sized goalie so let's search for Rinne clones." Lundqvist, Quick, Luongo, Thomas, etc are all great goalies that aren't massive in size. They don't need to look for the largest goalies they can find. They are just limiting their options by doing that.

I'm not giving up on Hovinen either because he only has started 2 pre-season games in North America. I just feel the Flyers screw up every step of the way when it comes to goaltending and it's perfectly within reason to question that decision.
I'm pretty sure Lundqvist and Luongo are both considered large goalies.

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10-11-2012, 12:41 AM
  #885
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haute Couturier View Post
I already gave you a potential explanation. Maybe teams want to let him do most of his development in Sweden before throwing him a contract. It's too early to say no one is interested therefore he must not be that good. He is still young. Bobrovsky was 22 when he got his chance.
Color me unimpressed by your explanation. If a team really thought he was good enough, they could have signed him to an ELC and loaned him back to his club team. Again, why would a team take a chance on waiting and possibly losing out on his rights? Doesn't make sense. And Bob was an unknown. Undrafted and played for a bad team. The moment Eriksson was drafted, every other team in the league takes notice of that. He's not flying under the radar.

If he keeps putting up numbers someone will take a chance on him. The SEL seems to be a pipeline for goalies. I haven't seen him play and I doubt you have either so I'm not even basing this off of his talent. I'm just basing this off past history with unsigned players.

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10-11-2012, 08:40 AM
  #886
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I'm pretty sure Lundqvist and Luongo are both considered large goalies.
They aren't the 6'5" and larger behemoths the Flyers seem to be targeting. I would say Lundqvist is about average size at 6'1". I just don't see targeting "huge" as a particularly useful strategy.



Quote:
Originally Posted by FLYguy3911 View Post
Color me unimpressed by your explanation. If a team really thought he was good enough, they could have signed him to an ELC and loaned him back to his club team. Again, why would a team take a chance on waiting and possibly losing out on his rights? Doesn't make sense. And Bob was an unknown. Undrafted and played for a bad team. The moment Eriksson was drafted, every other team in the league takes notice of that. He's not flying under the radar.

If he keeps putting up numbers someone will take a chance on him. The SEL seems to be a pipeline for goalies. I haven't seen him play and I doubt you have either so I'm not even basing this off of his talent. I'm just basing this off past history with unsigned players.
Why waste a year off of the ELC to loan him back to Sweden? If Bob isn't a good enough comparison then what about Hovinen? He was drafted and wasn't signed until he was around 23-24. It's fair to wonder why he hasn't been signed, but it's not proof that he lacks the talent when he still is young enough for someone to give him a chance.

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10-11-2012, 08:58 AM
  #887
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If you can get huge goalies who are quick enough, they can be very good. Lehtonen, Rinne, etc

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10-11-2012, 09:06 AM
  #888
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If you can get huge goalies who are quick enough, they can be very good. Lehtonen, Rinne, etc
Similarly, you can get a medium sized goalie with huge pads and they can be very good. Lundqvist.

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10-11-2012, 09:36 AM
  #889
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It's a bit ridiculous to question why no one has signed sunshine while defending Hovinen as having more upside and by extension a better signing. Hovinen was drafted and sat unsigned until age 23 (2 years older than sunshine) while at the same time having a less impressive track record.

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10-11-2012, 09:41 AM
  #890
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He was drafted by Minnesota who has had a ton of G depth. He'd just end up going there and either being a back up or would be in the AHL

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10-11-2012, 09:45 AM
  #891
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He was drafted by Minnesota who has had a ton of G depth. He'd just end up going there and either being a back up or would be in the AHL
Ok, so what?

Hovinen is older, has accomplished less, and also went unsigned for sometime.

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10-11-2012, 12:18 PM
  #892
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He was drafted by Minnesota who has had a ton of G depth. He'd just end up going there and either being a back up or would be in the AHL
Except that was not why they didnt sign him... Hovinen looked terrible until he was 23 ish.

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10-11-2012, 05:26 PM
  #893
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It's a bit ridiculous to question why no one has signed sunshine while defending Hovinen as having more upside and by extension a better signing. Hovinen was drafted and sat unsigned until age 23 (2 years older than sunshine) while at the same time having a less impressive track record.
First off, I'm not defending Hovinen. I simply said I'd rather take a chance on him than Sunshine given his enormous size. Simple as that. I'm not saying he will be better. Hell, aside from the prospect camp, I haven't seen either goalie play.

Second, Hovinen is a huge goalie. Historically, they take longer to develop (See Rinne, Pekka).

Third, don't judge performance by the stats. They played in different leagues (SEL is a little more defensive). Erikksson played on the best team in the SEL over the last two seasons. Hovinen played on the worst team in the league in 2011 (when he signed). Stats don't tell the whole story.

This coming summer will be 5 years from his draft year (the same time frame it took for Hovinen to sign). We'll see what happens.

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10-11-2012, 09:18 PM
  #894
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Noebels to Trenton and Phantoms Online

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Kinda disapointed Noebels is Trenton bound. More disapointed that the Phantoms will be next to impossible to find online
Noebels has time to develop, kinda surprised that he wasn't sent back to Juniors.
The organization probably felt that they could keep closer tabs on him in Trenton as opposed to sending him all the way back to Portland, OR. If they sent him to the Winterhawks, he would be gone for the year. With him in Trenton it makes for an easy call up from the ECHL. It also keeps the boys on their toes in the AHL, knowing that there are quality players waiting for a chance to play up. If the lockout ends, I would imagine that he would get called up with Akeson.

Here are some links that make it more possible to follow the Phantoms online.

http://ahl.neulion.com/ahl/

http://twitter.com/PhantomsHockey

http://www.saratogian.com/sports/phantoms/

http://www.poststar.com/app/sports/phantoms/

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10-12-2012, 12:55 AM
  #895
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Anyone a member at HockeyStreams? It looks like they play a solid amount of CHL and KHL games on there, might be worth a buy with no NHL.

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10-12-2012, 05:15 PM
  #896
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The Devils also sent G Scott Wedgewood to Trenton.

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10-12-2012, 05:26 PM
  #897
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The Devils also sent G Scott Wedgewood to Trenton.
Why are you confused? The ECHL does not work like the AHL where one NHL parent club provides an entire roster of players for them. Not all ECHL teams have NHL/AHL affiliates and even those that do do not receive a full roster of players from their parent club. ECHL teams may receive some players on loan from an affiliation agreement but then signs its own players and can rely on NHL/AHL teams without ECHL affiliates to round out their roster.

This is a good move for the Titans and it will give Hovinen some competition to help his development.

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10-12-2012, 06:45 PM
  #898
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Why are you confused? The ECHL does not work like the AHL where one NHL parent club provides an entire roster of players for them. Not all ECHL teams have NHL/AHL affiliates and even those that do do not receive a full roster of players from their parent club. ECHL teams may receive some players on loan from an affiliation agreement but then signs its own players and can rely on NHL/AHL teams without ECHL affiliates to round out their roster.

This is a good move for the Titans and it will give Hovinen some competition to help his development.
Wedgewood has look good so far this preseason. No doubt Hovinen is number 2 behind him. Gonna be hard to outplay him also.

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10-12-2012, 06:45 PM
  #899
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Originally Posted by pelts35.com View Post
Why are you confused? The ECHL does not work like the AHL where one NHL parent club provides an entire roster of players for them. Not all ECHL teams have NHL/AHL affiliates and even those that do do not receive a full roster of players from their parent club. ECHL teams may receive some players on loan from an affiliation agreement but then signs its own players and can rely on NHL/AHL teams without ECHL affiliates to round out their roster.

This is a good move for the Titans and it will give Hovinen some competition to help his development.
I understand that, but it's not an ideal system when you went a guy to get a decent workload.

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10-12-2012, 06:48 PM
  #900
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Also guys keep an eye out here:

http://www.thefirstrow.eu/sport/ice-hockey.html

Seems to be AHL game postings for tonights games. If we are lucky, maybe the phantoms will have one up.

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