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2012-13 Lockout Discussion Part III (First 2 weeks of season cancelled)

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Old
10-12-2012, 08:00 PM
  #901
Legend23
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Gotta go with the Hansen brothers

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10-12-2012, 08:47 PM
  #902
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Originally Posted by Legend23 View Post
Gotta go with the Hansen brothers
What a top-6:

Hanson-Hanson-Hanson
Laflamme-Bombay-Falco

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10-12-2012, 09:07 PM
  #903
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I don't understand tweets like this...

Quote:
Originally Posted by adater
When the history of this NHL lockout is written, the major blunder will always be...
The nhl's ridiculous opening offer. It insulted the intelligence of everyone involved and poisoned a negotiation that should have been a walk in the park.
It is a reflection of Gary Bettman's tone- deaf ear to the world of common sense.
https://twitter.com/adater/status/256920831362486272

Do people forget how Fehr didn't want to go to the negotiating table until this summer? Do people forget that at least the NHL has moved off their offer and come to much more reasonable terms while the PA has stayed at their ludicrous offer?

Do you not understand negotiations, you're SUPPOSED to start there. Had the PA agreed to start negotiating during the season, we'd be two months ahead of where we are now.

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Old
10-12-2012, 09:34 PM
  #904
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The owners were the ones who locked out the players.

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10-12-2012, 09:39 PM
  #905
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Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
The owners were the ones who locked out the players.
Come on. This labor situation is a two way street. The Owners weren't going to let Fehr hold the SC Playoffs hostage after the players collected their entire year's pay.

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10-12-2012, 09:49 PM
  #906
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For halloween Im gonna dress as Gary Bettman and see how many people go to the other side of the street to trick or treat because that side doesn't steal all the candy/lets people trick or treat on that side.

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10-12-2012, 09:50 PM
  #907
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For halloween Im gonna dress as Gary Bettman and see how many people go to the other side of the street to trick or treat because that side doesn't steal all the candy/lets people trick or treat on that side.
No one will open their doors.

You'll be... LOCKED OUT.

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10-12-2012, 09:52 PM
  #908
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Originally Posted by silverfish View Post
I don't understand tweets like this...



https://twitter.com/adater/status/256920831362486272

Do people forget how Fehr didn't want to go to the negotiating table until this summer? Do people forget that at least the NHL has moved off their offer and come to much more reasonable terms while the PA has stayed at their ludicrous offer?

Do you not understand negotiations, you're SUPPOSED to start there. Had the PA agreed to start negotiating during the season, we'd be two months ahead of where we are now.
You're forgetting the NHL blew up a season to get that "terrible" CBA. Forgetting that owners were signing contracts under that horrible system until the last possible second. The players didn't forget how Bettman is a weasel at the table. He opened with that jerk off offer and told everyone "I lockout first, negotiate second". If the NHL is so hellbent on bargaining, they can make an offer since they pulled the last one. Whoa, they made one whole offer more. They're saints. Let's credit them for making a reasonable offer after a slap in the face. If it's universally understood that initial offer was counter productive, why are we blaming the pa for their reaction?

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10-12-2012, 09:58 PM
  #909
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DutchShamrock View Post
You're forgetting the NHL blew up a season to get that "terrible" CBA. Forgetting that owners were signing contracts under that horrible system until the last possible second. The players didn't forget how Bettman is a weasel at the table. He opened with that jerk off offer and told everyone "I lockout first, negotiate second". If the NHL is so hellbent on bargaining, they can make an offer since they pulled the last one. Whoa, they made one whole offer more. They're saints. Let's credit them for making a reasonable offer after a slap in the face. If it's universally understood that initial offer was counter productive, why are we blaming the pa for their reaction?
Listen, I'm not here to defend the owners. I'm not taking sides in this one, I'm trying to play fair. But for guys like Adater (and many others) to put the entire blame on the owners is just wrong IMHO.

Negotiations are a two-way street. I understand the owners first proposal was terrible, it was, but that's what you do in negotiations. The owners put their first offer on the table because they knew that Fehr was as ready for war as they were. Judging by the first offer from the PA, I'd say the owners were accurate in their assessment.

People tend to forget we were late to the negotiating table BECAUSE OF FEHR AND THE PA. And of course Bettman and the owners were going to lockout the players, that's a no-brainer from their standpoint.

Yes, the faults of the now-expired CBA were on the owners. Yes, this lockout could have been avoided had a few things from BOTH sides happened. I just can't stand when people try to blame one side or the other when clearly both sides are in the wrong. And no, I don't believe that one side is "more wrong" than the other. Until I see Daly/Bettman, or one of the Fehr brothers get on a podium and say "we are ready to negotiate now, we have a fair offer and we'd like to present it to the other party and get a deal done this week" I'll pick a side. Until then, they're both wrong; and they're both doing nothing but killing the sport and ****ing the fans over.

/endrant

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Old
10-12-2012, 10:18 PM
  #910
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I venture to guess that Fehr asked the players whether or not they want him to table the proposal he has.

Quote:
Pierre LeBrun ‏@Real_ESPNLeBrun
NHLPA had conference call with executive board and negotiating committee today.

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10-13-2012, 08:06 AM
  #911
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silverfish View Post

Negotiations are a two-way street. I understand the owners first proposal was terrible, it was, but that's what you do in negotiations. The owners put their first offer on the table because they knew that Fehr was as ready for war as they were. Judging by the first offer from the PA, I'd say the owners were accurate in their assessment.
See, I think they did the opposite. They treated this like the last lockout, that the union is a disorganized and divided mess. There are tweets to support that. They regret the first offer, want a do over now that they've seen the union. I can't look at this lockout in a bubble. The league disrespected the players and essentially bargained for a lockout. Just like last time. And last time, Bettman took every concession and incorporated into his offer and cancelled the season when he didn't like the direction of an active negotiation. If The NHL isn't going to be realistic, why should the first PA offer be fair? Why does Gary get a pass on the first offer but the union gets vilified? They were just responding to the league.

Hey, I wish the players came back with another offer already. But I get it. The PA tried their damnedest to save the '04 season and the union suffered for their efforts. It didn't get us hockey any sooner. I'm hoping that maybe Fehr can break the lockout first mentality playing some hardball.

And for those who wish they bargained during the season... take a guess what would have happened in April if Bettman tabled that offer. Strike. They have to focus on hockey. It's not fair to expect them to go against businessmen in a business setting while they are doing their own thing.

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10-13-2012, 08:09 AM
  #912
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From: @reporterchris
Sent: Oct 12, 2012 11:06p

Bryan Little, to Wpg Sun, on CBA: "Itís frustrating when you see them meeting for an hour, and then taking a couple days to take a break."

sent via TweetDeck
On Twitter: http://twitter.com/reporterchris/sta...54083091574784

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10-13-2012, 08:25 AM
  #913
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What was the problem with the PA proposal? The NHL doesn't like it because its tied to growth of HRR. The NHL must have zero confidence in their product. They were surprised at the growth the league since the last lockout. They never thought the cap would increase to $70.2M. Now they don't think the league will continue to grow. The NHL constantly makes mistakes. Judging by their actions,Bettman didn't negotiate a good CBA in 05 since they want things added which were missed and want more givebacks in areas gained by the PA in 05. The same guys are negotiating for the NHL.

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10-13-2012, 12:31 PM
  #914
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Bettman has no faith in the canadian dollar, Winnipeg, or the winter classic as he cited each as the reason for growth and why it won't continue. He's brain dead or he thinks we are.

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Old
10-13-2012, 01:11 PM
  #915
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what is the minimum amount of games for a season?

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10-13-2012, 01:31 PM
  #916
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They played 48 games in 94-95, so I would think somewhere around that number.

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10-13-2012, 01:55 PM
  #917
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Its the weekend, and CBA negotiations aren't important. No hockey, no problem. Bettman and co have to have their saturdays and sundays.

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10-13-2012, 03:59 PM
  #918
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Quote:
Still not totally finalized, but plan right now is for NHL/NHLPA to resume talks Tuesday. Location TBD
https://twitter.com/Real_ESPNLeBrun/...08193871142912

Quote:
While the tone between League and PA is not good...there is an expectation that the two will converse over the weekend.
https://twitter.com/JSportsnet/statu...07002718142464

#thesetwosidesneedeachother

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10-13-2012, 04:04 PM
  #919
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League and PA have scheduled a bargaining session for Tuesday. Location, agenda and who participates to be decided Monday
https://twitter.com/JSportsnet/statu...09948897955840

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Old
10-13-2012, 04:32 PM
  #920
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honestly, them talking and **** is loads better then 2004-2005

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10-13-2012, 04:54 PM
  #921
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Let me guess, it won't be to discuss the core issues.

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10-13-2012, 05:29 PM
  #922
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Let me guess, it won't be to discuss the core issues.
it will be to discuss where they should hold the discussions to discuss where they should meet.

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Old
10-13-2012, 06:27 PM
  #923
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honestly, them talking and **** is loads better then 2004-2005
Yes and no. Yes in a sense that talking is better than not talking. But no because they are not discussing anything relevent to getting a season started soon.

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10-13-2012, 09:32 PM
  #924
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what is the minimum amount of games for a season?
Whatever the league decides it to be.

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10-13-2012, 11:28 PM
  #925
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Bargaining? wtf? Is this wal-mart?

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