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2012 Winnipeg Blue Bombers/CFL Thread Pt. 2 - Fire Mack Edition

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Old
10-10-2012, 11:10 PM
  #651
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Originally Posted by Hank Chinaski View Post
Give me a break. I get that you're not sold on Elliott, but lay off on the hyperbole. He had two rough outings, nothing more and nothing less. Never mind the fact that the entire team sucked in those two games.
True the whole team was bad. But i've never heard of QB in the CFL put up 89 yards passing and 0 points in 2 seperate games. I've watched the CFL a long time and been a Bomber fan a long time and i've never seen a QB that bad.

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10-11-2012, 12:21 AM
  #652
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AHHHH!! Dear GOD NO! NOOOOOOOO! Maciocia is a freaking idiot, one of the worst ppl in the CFL (only say one of since Reinbold is somehow back in CFL). It's like the one way of the ways to go backwards from Mack.

@ Bob E, this will actually be WPG's FIFTH top 4 pick in just 3 years. Muamba, Etienne, Pensor, this year's 1st Ovr and Kito Poblah. Had Poblah not tried NFL and got his paperwork work in on time, he would have been 1st overall in 2011, had he not gotten his paperwork in at all, he would have been 1st overall in 2012 (Bombers picked him up in the 2011 Supplemental Draft by giving up their 2012 first rounder, which worked fantastic since it would have been 7th). So far though, we have only injuies (Poblah, Penser) and inconsistency (Poblah, Muamba) and closing in on bust (Etienne) to so for it. Not great so far, but hopefully this will set the stage for some good NI talent down the road.

By the looks of things, we might have to potential to start 4 IMP O-Linemen next year. Change the receiving corps to WR Matthews, SB Edwards/Denmark, NIP SB Watson, NIP SB Poblah, NIP WR Kohlert/Etienne/Aprile next year. Start NIP MLB Muamba, NIP S Logan and maybe a first round pick on the DL (Charles, Gaydosh, Kashama, Joseph) or Bilikidi on the DL if we can get him back from OAK. Hell maybe then we can have a half-decent offensive line.

The big question is still QB. We will need to bring in a real competitor for the starting spot. Elliott, Goltz, Quinn/Reilly, and a young new QB would produce some real competition and hopefully some success. That's about the only options we have right now. Hell I'd take Kevin Glenn back next year, anything.
I agree 100%, with most of this.

I'm only waffling on the O-Line. Call me a CFL tradionalist, but starting 4 import O-Linemen just seems anti-CFL to me. Great CFL teams seem to always have outstanding Canadian hogs, imo, so you can play highly skilled americans in other areas.

Boy, five top 4 picks and we may only have Muamba and the 2013 1st overall to show for it. Not giving up on Poblah just yet, but he's got a ways to go. Etienne is a bust and Pencer is soon to follow. He was damaged goods when he was drafted. And to think we could have drafted Coehoorn or Iannuzzi instead of Etienne (who i'm sure would have been available in the 2nd or 3rd round).

I like Charles or Gaydosh. Either would be a nice addition to the D-Line.

But you are absolutely right, the most important piece to this puzzle will be at QB. Elliot has shown some ability. Is he inconsistent? Absolutely. Has he delivered? On occassion. That's enough, in my books, to let him have a few more starts to build on what he's learned.

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10-11-2012, 12:36 AM
  #653
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Originally Posted by PostmaFan1 View Post
True the whole team was bad. But i've never heard of QB in the CFL put up 89 yards passing and 0 points in 2 seperate games. I've watched the CFL a long time and been a Bomber fan a long time and i've never seen a QB that bad.
Well TJ Rubley would give Elliot a run for his money, in the awful games category.

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10-11-2012, 01:37 AM
  #654
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I agree 100%, with most of this.

I'm only waffling on the O-Line. Call me a CFL tradionalist, but starting 4 import O-Linemen just seems anti-CFL to me. Great CFL teams seem to always have outstanding Canadian hogs, imo, so you can play highly skilled americans in other areas.

Boy, five top 4 picks and we may only have Muamba and the 2013 1st overall to show for it. Not giving up on Poblah just yet, but he's got a ways to go. Etienne is a bust and Pencer is soon to follow. He was damaged goods when he was drafted. And to think we could have drafted Coehoorn or Iannuzzi instead of Etienne (who i'm sure would have been available in the 2nd or 3rd round).

I like Charles or Gaydosh. Either would be a nice addition to the D-Line.

But you are absolutely right, the most important piece to this puzzle will be at QB. Elliot has shown some ability. Is he inconsistent? Absolutely. Has he delivered? On occassion. That's enough, in my books, to let him have a few more starts to build on what he's learned.
Well point was we would have enough talented CDN's starting elsewhere to use imports on the OL, since clearly we cannot find/develop our own. Was just throwing it out there since we seem to have enough CDN talent to spread around, but it's highly unlikely any team would ever do this. The CDN O-Line tradition is just a function of not having enough talented CDN's elsewhere. Regardless, we have for sure the 4 elsewhere starters we need (Watson, Poblah, Logan, Muamba), so that's good enough.

Poblah has some special raw talent, but has a)not been able to stay healthy, b)been completely miss used on the outside. He is a natural speed SB, but is being relegated to the outside. They should move him into SB next year, run Matthews and Kohlert/Etienne on the outside, that'll work out much better, maximizing his skills and the skills of receiving corps.

Too early to give up completely on Etienne or Pencer (especially Pencer). Both were drafted as very young projects. Etienne though is getting close to bust territory. Next year's TC will be his make it or break it. The ONLY nice thing right now is that Etienne projects as a big WR threat, compared to Coehorn or Iannuzzi who are SB's and would be stuck behind Edwards, Denmark, Watson, Poblah. It's a small comfort, but hopefully he can find a role next year, since if he doesn't he might as well go. Still not sure why we ditched Hargreaves though for a guy like Etienne Pencer has been injured all year. Not sure how he can be a bust? He is still projecting to play tackle, which would be awesome, but hell I'd take him if he can play LG. Let's see what he can do before declaring him a bust, although it was still a terrible move to trade up, not get their guy, then take a guy they could have had at #8 Way to waste that extra second Mack.

I'm gonna hold off on the draft talk for now, don't know enough about them, but yeah Charles, Gaydosh look fine. There seems to plenty of talent at DL in this draft with Kalonji Kashama (brother of current Bomber Fernand Kashama), Jesse Joseph (medical redshirted this year), Ben D'Aguilar and Elie Ngoyi along with the two aforementioned DL's in the CFL draft bureau top 15. Not sure if any of them are a Jabari Westerman type ready to step in to start. Of course nobody thought Westerman was a top 2 pick either until draft day.

Elliott's inconsistency is why I would bring in a Quinn/Reilly/Willy to compete with Elliott for the starting spot, have a no holds bar competition camp for the starting spot. Let the best QB win. You then have the other guy to fall back on and continue to push the starter to stay consistent.

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10-11-2012, 05:49 PM
  #655
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Buck out Elliott to start per dave randorph

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10-11-2012, 07:35 PM
  #656
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Originally Posted by Holden Caulfield View Post
Well point was we would have enough talented CDN's starting elsewhere to use imports on the OL, since clearly we cannot find/develop our own. Was just throwing it out there since we seem to have enough CDN talent to spread around, but it's highly unlikely any team would ever do this. The CDN O-Line tradition is just a function of not having enough talented CDN's elsewhere. Regardless, we have for sure the 4 elsewhere starters we need (Watson, Poblah, Logan, Muamba), so that's good enough.

Poblah has some special raw talent, but has a)not been able to stay healthy, b)been completely miss used on the outside. He is a natural speed SB, but is being relegated to the outside. They should move him into SB next year, run Matthews and Kohlert/Etienne on the outside, that'll work out much better, maximizing his skills and the skills of receiving corps.

Too early to give up completely on Etienne or Pencer (especially Pencer). Both were drafted as very young projects. Etienne though is getting close to bust territory. Next year's TC will be his make it or break it. The ONLY nice thing right now is that Etienne projects as a big WR threat, compared to Coehorn or Iannuzzi who are SB's and would be stuck behind Edwards, Denmark, Watson, Poblah. It's a small comfort, but hopefully he can find a role next year, since if he doesn't he might as well go. Still not sure why we ditched Hargreaves though for a guy like Etienne Pencer has been injured all year. Not sure how he can be a bust? He is still projecting to play tackle, which would be awesome, but hell I'd take him if he can play LG. Let's see what he can do before declaring him a bust, although it was still a terrible move to trade up, not get their guy, then take a guy they could have had at #8 Way to waste that extra second Mack.

I'm gonna hold off on the draft talk for now, don't know enough about them, but yeah Charles, Gaydosh look fine. There seems to plenty of talent at DL in this draft with Kalonji Kashama (brother of current Bomber Fernand Kashama), Jesse Joseph (medical redshirted this year), Ben D'Aguilar and Elie Ngoyi along with the two aforementioned DL's in the CFL draft bureau top 15. Not sure if any of them are a Jabari Westerman type ready to step in to start. Of course nobody thought Westerman was a top 2 pick either until draft day.

Elliott's inconsistency is why I would bring in a Quinn/Reilly/Willy to compete with Elliott for the starting spot, have a no holds bar competition camp for the starting spot. Let the best QB win. You then have the other guy to fall back on and continue to push the starter to stay consistent.
Haven't declared Pencer a bust, yet, just that its heading that way. What worries me is shoulder injuries in O-Line or D-Line players have a tendency to be chronic or never really get fixed well enough for them to play any length of time. He might make it back, and play for years, but an injury like that is a concern. A bit like a running back having reconstructive knee surgery - in many ways.

Sure, he can be a project, but i wonder how injury-free will he be and, ultimately, how effective will he be? I honestly see him kicking around the injured reserve list and practice roster for a couple of years, and then the Bombers move on.

Etienne and Poblah are young players, i could cut them some slack. But i'm thinking only Poblah will be here a year from now.

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10-12-2012, 07:55 AM
  #657
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Sounds like Elliott has been setup to fail.
Buck took most of the first team snaps all week and now hasnt been cleared to play.

Elliott going to bomb tomorrow afternoon.

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10-12-2012, 12:52 PM
  #658
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Originally Posted by King Woodballs View Post
Sounds like Elliott has been setup to fail.
Buck took most of the first team snaps all week and now hasnt been cleared to play.

Elliott going to bomb tomorrow afternoon.
I AM SO PISSED about this. They screw around all week with Buck taking first team snaps and then last minute throw Joey in there. Send him in there unprepared again real smart. This team is such a joke it makes me sad.

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10-12-2012, 01:12 PM
  #659
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I AM SO PISSED about this. They screw around all week with Buck taking first team snaps and then last minute throw Joey in there. Send him in there unprepared again real smart. This team is such a joke it makes me sad.
I am not so pissed as I am really ****ing confused.

Why on earth would a team do this?

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10-12-2012, 02:53 PM
  #660
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I am not so pissed as I am really ****ing confused.

Why on earth would a team do this?
Because they're stoopid.

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10-12-2012, 04:29 PM
  #661
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I am not so pissed as I am really ****ing confused.

Why on earth would a team do this?
I am confused as well but the only possible explanation I can come up with is Burke and Mack think Buck is going to be the guy to save the season and their jobs. I just can fathom any other reason for Buck taking first team snaps this week. Perhaps they had an idea that he wouldn't be ready and wanted to surprise Calgary a bit but the disadvantage that puts Joey at makes no sense. That's why I'm pissed.

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Because they're stoopid.
That they are my friend

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10-12-2012, 06:01 PM
  #662
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Sounds like Elliott has been setup to fail.
Buck took most of the first team snaps all week and now hasnt been cleared to play.

Elliott going to bomb tomorrow afternoon.
I understand your anger and confusion. But the guy has started 7 games this season and played with the first team players on monday. You can't say he going to bomb simply because he didn't get first reps for a couple of days.

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10-12-2012, 07:19 PM
  #663
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Its been more then 2 bad games. Those two games were just the worst by a QB in the history of the league. Check down Joey does it way more then most young QBs but point taken.
Goota love it when some people are ready to write off a QB after a grand total of 7 starts. Maybe we should write-off Scheiffele as well?

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10-12-2012, 07:31 PM
  #664
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I am not so pissed as I am really ****ing confused.

Why on earth would a team do this?
Guess Mack and Burke feel Buck would have given them the best chance to save their jobs..I mean, win some games.

Bombers go 2-2 down the stretch, I would say that will probably be good enough for them to keep their jobs.

Elliott does seem to be in a bit of a pickle this weekend. Minimal practice and two starting receivers out of the lineup at last report. Could be set up for failure? Hope they give Simpson the ball early and often in the game and he can churn out big yards.

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10-12-2012, 07:39 PM
  #665
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I understand your anger and confusion. But the guy has started 7 games this season and played with the first team players on monday. You can't say he going to bomb simply because he didn't get first reps for a couple of days.
So then why did pierce get time?
By that logic buck didnt need the time either.

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10-12-2012, 07:40 PM
  #666
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Goota love it when some people are ready to write off a QB after a grand total of 7 starts. Maybe we should write-off Scheiffele as well?
its been more then 7 starts. Thats just this season.

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10-12-2012, 08:39 PM
  #667
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its been more then 7 starts. Thats just this season.
He had just two other starts back in 2010 and he looked fine in those games back then...he is inconsistent, no doubt, but he is still a very young QB and has shown some upside in this system. I would not be counting Elliott out just yet, but I am not banking on him either.

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10-12-2012, 10:21 PM
  #668
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its been more then 7 starts. Thats just this season.
Nope. 6 starts this season and 7 in his career. First start came in 2010 I believe as he was injured in 2011 in his first relieve appearance.

My point still stands.

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10-12-2012, 11:01 PM
  #669
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How many tix are sold? Im thinkin of headin down to the ol stadium for one last hurrah while the weather is nice.

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10-12-2012, 11:49 PM
  #670
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Nope. 6 starts this season and 7 in his career. First start came in 2010 I believe as he was injured in 2011 in his first relieve appearance.

My point still stands.
He's started 10 games. He started the last two games of the season in 2010 both losses. His career record is 2-8 as a starter. Your point of him starting 7 games no longer stands.

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10-13-2012, 12:05 AM
  #671
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How many tix are sold? Im thinkin of headin down to the ol stadium for one last hurrah while the weather is nice.
There's still like 3,000 left, not a hot seller by any means

EDIT: 4,219, use this for ticket counts http://bomberticketcount.com/

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10-13-2012, 12:12 AM
  #672
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He's started 10 games. He started the last two games of the season in 2010 both losses. His career record is 2-8 as a starter. Your point of him starting 7 games no longer stands.
He has only started 6 games this year. Check it out hear if you don't believe me.

http://www.cfl.ca/schedule/year/2012/time_zone/0

If you click on the game tracker for each game it will show you who started the games. JOey didn't start until week 8 (game 7) as Buck was injured in the second game and Brink started the next five. Joey started 5 games, followed by Buck for 2 and then Elliott for 1 game last week.

Even if Elliott had started 10 games like you claim that is not enough time to fully determine if he has the goods to be a full-time starter in this league. He has had a couple bad games this season, but he has had a few good ones as well.

Tomorrow I think he will be in tough as a couple of wide receivers are reported to be injured for the game. Hopefully, Chad Simpson has a big game, that is, assuming Crowton gives him that opportunity.

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10-13-2012, 12:17 AM
  #673
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He has only started 6 games this year. Check it out hear if you don't believe me.

http://www.cfl.ca/schedule/year/2012/time_zone/0

If you click on the game tracker for each game it will show you who started the games. JOey didn't start until week 8 (game 7) as Buck was injured in the second game and Brink started the next five. Joey started 5 games, followed by Buck for 2 and then Elliott for 1 game last week.

Even if Elliott had started 10 games like you claim that is not enough time to fully determine if he has the goods to be a full-time starter in this league. He has had a couple bad games this season, but he has had a few good ones as well.

Tomorrow I think he will be in tough as a couple of wide receivers are reported to be injured for the game. Hopefully, Chad Simpson has a big game, that is, assuming Crowton gives him that opportunity.
I was talking about how many games he has started in his career not just this season. You told me it was 7 for his career. Lol I just checked again we were both wrong. In todays sun it said he's 2-7 as a starter so 9 games.


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10-13-2012, 12:30 AM
  #674
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So then why did pierce get time?
By that logic buck didnt need the time either.
Lol come on you can't be serious. Somebody has to play QB in practice. Im just saying who cares if he didn't get first team reps you can't simply say he going to play poorly or "bomb" tomorrow because he didn't get first team reps.

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10-13-2012, 01:00 AM
  #675
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Lol come on you can't be serious. Somebody has to play QB in practice. Im just saying who cares if he didn't get first team reps you can't simply say he going to play poorly or "bomb" tomorrow because he didn't get first team reps.
That's right. The play poorly or "bomb" will likely be due to Calgary's defense, particularly their defensive scheme, blitzs and man-to-man coverage.

Joey must show that he can handle the pressure, and get the ball into the hands of playmakers.

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