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Tallon won't trade Bjugstad for Luongo

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Old
10-12-2012, 09:25 PM
  #51
Socratic Method Man
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Originally Posted by coldsteelonice84 View Post
Draft picks, a decent but not great roster player, what I don't understand is why Vancouver didn't just make the deal for such a return immediately after the season. They've painted themselves into a corner. Bjugstad...where's our Bjugstad for trading Campbell? He's in Florida where he belongs.
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Originally Posted by Oates2Neely View Post
Great point.. sometimes you just have to bite the bullet. Gillis needs to just make a deal already, otherwise there will be contraversy with Schneider & Luongo on the roster.
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To give a relevant reply: I'm not surprised. Gillis has really backed himself into a corner with the whole Luongo situation. On any given day, I believe that he would be worth Bjugstad, but given the current situation - other GM's will want to lowball him.
Should have just bit the bullet and traded Luongo months ago.
You know what I find both amusing and entertaining? The hatred that vancouver generally recieves (I know all fanbases recieve hatred but at least according to some people, Vancouver is the most hated team).

This hate extends to the GM of Vancouver. So what would make these "haters" happier than anything is to see Gillis make a bad trade. They want Gillis to trade an allstar for nothing.

The problem is Gillis hasn't done this. He's proven to be a competant Gm - some would say an amazing GM. So when Gillis waits and waits and waits until he gets a fair deal, the hatred turns into bitterness and contempt. And that in turn turns into poorly used cliches such as "should've bit the bullet" and "painted themselves into a corner".

All with the delusional implication that by not selling for nothing, Gillis is doing a very poor job. Quite entertaining.

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Old
10-12-2012, 10:21 PM
  #52
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Hey Beez, we knew you don't want to trade Bjugstad for Luongo. Really. We got the hint the first few hundred times you told us that on our board. We are now officially gathering redundant data here.

And seriously, is this "news"? This is actually new? And why the hell are people in this thread talking like Gillis is able to do a deal now?

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10-12-2012, 10:23 PM
  #53
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Isn't this tampering?
It's a rumor.

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10-12-2012, 10:44 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Socratic Method Man View Post
You know what I find both amusing and entertaining? The hatred that vancouver generally recieves (I know all fanbases recieve hatred but at least according to some people, Vancouver is the most hated team).

This hate extends to the GM of Vancouver. So what would make these "haters" happier than anything is to see Gillis make a bad trade. They want Gillis to trade an allstar for nothing.

The problem is Gillis hasn't done this. He's proven to be a competant Gm - some would say an amazing GM. So when Gillis waits and waits and waits until he gets a fair deal, the hatred turns into bitterness and contempt. And that in turn turns into poorly used cliches such as "should've bit the bullet" and "painted themselves into a corner".

All with the delusional implication that by not selling for nothing, Gillis is doing a very poor job. Quite entertaining.
holy **** get over yourself.

what's amusing and entertaining is that people in Vancouver believe their team generates hate from anywhere outside of Alberta and that Luongo will retain or gain whatever value he has if he's riding the pine or splitting time with Schneider.

Most hated team?

Of the current crop of successful teams, Boston is easily the most hated.

I don't just hate the Bruins... I hate Boston in it's entirety. That city has been far too successful over the past decade in all four major North American sports. **** them.

If we're just talking about teams in general, it's the Leafs. Largest fan base and the greatest amount of haters (similar to the Yankees in baseball... except they win now and then).

The Canucks? Are you kidding me?

What have the Canucks done to be hated? They're a quality squad with some floppers.

As for Gillis being an "amazing GM" - Please remind us what players he has brought in to supplement the incredible roster he inherited.

It's hilarious to hear certain fans claim that having Luongo and Schneider together in camp won't cause any friction. If that's the case, answer me this - Who starts game one and who starts game two (when the season finally gets underway)?


Simply starting Schneider ahead of Luongo at the beginning of the year will lessen the value of Luongo.

Why?

Because if Luongo gave Vancouver the best chance to win, he'd be starting every game instead of the guy who hasn't played a full season in the NHL. Benching Luongo or splitting the games 50/50 is a strong indication that Vancouver isn't as confident in Luongo's abilities as it's fanbase is and other teams will use that for leverage.

If Luongo isn't the starter whenver the season actually gets rolling, Luongo's value is hurt... there's no other way to look at it unless you work for Fox News.

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10-12-2012, 10:56 PM
  #55
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Lol, oh ok.
Well there's Shore too, but I was never really high on him. And Grimaldi is an extremely high-risk prospect, but I guess you could count him.

But at the end of the day Bjugstad has more value to Florida than he would to Vancouver. I didn't mean to insult Florida's almighty prospect pool. Just agreeing that regardless of the calibre of the prospect, a defenseman makes more sense than a centre from both teams' POVs.

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10-12-2012, 11:42 PM
  #56
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I still don't see what Florida wants with Luongo.
Markstrom has to be ready soon and would seem to be the goalie of the future.

Luongo would be short term gain for long term pain. The way goaltending is more so equalized by team ability. The position gets overrated as is.

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10-12-2012, 11:49 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Well there's Shore too, but I was never really high on him. And Grimaldi is an extremely high-risk prospect, but I guess you could count him.

But at the end of the day Bjugstad has more value to Florida than he would to Vancouver. I didn't mean to insult Florida's almighty prospect pool. Just agreeing that regardless of the calibre of the prospect, a defenseman makes more sense than a centre from both teams' POVs.
That's just a kind way of saying that you think that Luongo is worth more than Bjugstad without seeming like you're demanding him. Bjugstad would be just as valuable to Vancouver as he is to Florida. Vancouver has no blue-chip propsects, and there best ones are not at the center position (Jensen and Lack), and they don't have a plan for when Henrik declines. Bjugstad would plug a huge hole.

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10-13-2012, 12:05 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by TheJuxtaposer View Post
That's just a kind way of saying that you think that Luongo is worth more than Bjugstad without seeming like you're demanding him. Bjugstad would be just as valuable to Vancouver as he is to Florida. Vancouver has no blue-chip propsects, and there best ones are not at the center position (Jensen and Lack), and they don't have a plan for when Henrik declines. Bjugstad would plug a huge hole.
Sure, twist what I said into something else. That huge hole would occur in about 5 years or more. Both Schroeder and Gaunce have top-6 upside. There's no doubt in my mind that a team with Weiss-Goc-Shore-Grimaldi as their centre depth would value Bjugstad more than a team with Henrik-Kesler-Schroeder-Gaunce. Sure, I'd love Bjugstad, but Florida need him more than we do. Similarly, a tough, RHD is something we are missing depth on both our roster and prospect pool. Florida is very deep on young defensemen, so if a deal were to go down, I think that a prospect like Petrovic would make more sense to both teams than Bjugstad.

But to be clear, I absolutely think Luongo has more value than Bjugstad, Florida just wouldn't give him up for Luongo, and they are perfectly justified to say so. When fans say they wouldn't trade, ex. Kreider for Nash, or Couturier for Weber, it doesn't mean they think that player has more value, simply that it does not make sense for the team going forward to do so.

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10-13-2012, 01:10 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by veedubn1 View Post
holy **** get over yourself.

what's amusing and entertaining is that people in Vancouver believe their team generates hate from anywhere outside of Alberta and that Luongo will retain or gain whatever value he has if he's riding the pine or splitting time with Schneider.

Most hated team?

Of the current crop of successful teams, Boston is easily the most hated.

I don't just hate the Bruins... I hate Boston in it's entirety. That city has been far too successful over the past decade in all four major North American sports. **** them.

If we're just talking about teams in general, it's the Leafs. Largest fan base and the greatest amount of haters (similar to the Yankees in baseball... except they win now and then).

The Canucks? Are you kidding me?

What have the Canucks done to be hated? They're a quality squad with some floppers.
I'd say we at least tie with the Leafs, look at any number of Luongo threads as evidence.

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Originally Posted by veedubn1 View Post
As for Gillis being an "amazing GM" - Please remind us what players he has brought in to supplement the incredible roster he inherited.
Hamhuis, Malhotra, Lapierre, Booth, Higgins, Ehrhoff, Sundin, Demitra, Samuelsson, keeping players like Bieksa, the Sedins, Kesler and Burrows (and Luongo and Schneider) to sweet heart contracts to allow such additions, and bringing in younger players like Kassian (Hodgson was his 1st pick), Tanev, Sauve, Lack and others vs. a maligned history of trading picks for rentals, signing AHL players for pivotal positions, and letting players walk when contract offers don't just happen the way they want.

No, you're right, the barely able to stay afloat roster centred on the same core players under Nonis was fine.

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Originally Posted by veedubn1 View Post
It's hilarious to hear certain fans claim that having Luongo and Schneider together in camp won't cause any friction. If that's the case, answer me this - Who starts game one and who starts game two (when the season finally gets underway)?


Simply starting Schneider ahead of Luongo at the beginning of the year will lessen the value of Luongo.

Why?

Because if Luongo gave Vancouver the best chance to win, he'd be starting every game instead of the guy who hasn't played a full season in the NHL. Benching Luongo or splitting the games 50/50 is a strong indication that Vancouver isn't as confident in Luongo's abilities as it's fanbase is and other teams will use that for leverage.

If Luongo isn't the starter whenver the season actually gets rolling, Luongo's value is hurt... there's no other way to look at it unless you work for Fox News.
Two guys that generally like each other creates competition, sure, but if this friction will suddenly...appear...why haven't one of them tried to kill the other yet?

And you're speaking as though Schneider has the starter role handed to him. He's earned it, but Luongo won't just pout, both are competitive, and both are consummate professionals. If anything, we will see better play from both if there is a goaltending controversy...which would up the value.

Oh goodness, Detroit has two top line centers in Zetterberg and Datsyuk! They must hate each other! Los Angeles added Richards and Carter to a mix that includes Kopitar! They must not be happy with his skill! Edmonton has 3 first overall picks! Stop the presses, someones gotta be moved!

...And Pittsburgh has two incredible goaltenders, why don't we hear about the big controversy there with Fleury and Vokoun? I mean with all the crap on this board about how Fleury chokes under pressure, the addition of Vokoun must signal the end of his time with the team that drafted and developed him too, right?

I think these threads are devolving so fast because it's all pre-concieved notions with no room for errors in logic, which posters think means throwing the baby out with the bath water.

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Old
10-13-2012, 01:20 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by ProstheticConscience View Post
Hey Beez, we knew you don't want to trade Bjugstad for Luongo. Really. We got the hint the first few hundred times you told us that on our board. We are now officially gathering redundant data here.

And seriously, is this "news"? This is actually new? And why the hell are people in this thread talking like Gillis is able to do a deal now?


I wouldn't be too hard on Beezeral, he did acquiesce to some pretty good alternative packages for Lu on our board. They didn't include Bjugstad, but still very good pieces nonetheless.


The news is just confirming the rumour. Bjugstad was taken off the table by Tallon. It remains to be seen if anything else can be worked out... perhaps by way of a 3way trade?


CBA will stop all action though so it's kinda moot.

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10-13-2012, 01:51 AM
  #61
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Lu is not going to get the return that VAN wants and that is plain and simple.
Maybe, hard to say when we as fans really dont know the market, we're only speculating. I do think that Gillis is comfortable with keeping both Lu and Schneider for another year though. No starter, they both compete for starts. At this point, we have the cap space.

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10-13-2012, 02:24 AM
  #62
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Much as I'd like Bjugstad, for once a Vancouver - Florida trade doesn't seem like it works.

Toronto or Edmonton are a much better bet. Don't discount Edmonton, especially considering the Steve Tambellini connection and the wealth of prospects they currently have.

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10-13-2012, 03:06 AM
  #63
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Much as I'd like Bjugstad, for once a Vancouver - Florida trade doesn't seem like it works.

Toronto or Edmonton are a much better bet. Don't discount Edmonton, especially considering the Steve Tambellini connection and the wealth of prospects they currently have.
Edmonton may actually be a good place for him to end up. But I doubt they give prospects for him.

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10-13-2012, 03:11 AM
  #64
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Originally Posted by veedubn1 View Post
As for Gillis being an "amazing GM" - Please remind us what players he has brought in to supplement the incredible roster he inherited.
Vancouver fans don't like hearing this but the only significant acquisition that Gillis has made on the current team is Hamhuis and that one was a nobrainer especially considering Hamhuis's desire to come home. His drafting record hasn't been anything spectacular, the one pick of his that made the Canucks was traded away for Zack Kassian who has a long way to go before he becomes significant producer.

Another much heralded accomplishment of Mike Gillis was bringing in Mats Sundin for 41 games. This supposedly propelled Ryan Kesler into a Selke winning center and the Sedins into Hart/Art Ross winners. It can easily be argued that they could have reached the same level under his predecessor especially since Gillis has kept the same coaching staff that was there when he arrived.

Then there was the Ehrhoff trade which I will admit was quite good, its just too bad that Ehrhoff is currently with the Sabres. Can't blame Gillis for that one, wouldn't have made sense for the Canucks to give Ehrhoff that kind of contract.

What comes next? Malhotra was great for one season, now he doesn't seem to be quite worth the salary he makes. Booth has only played an average of 57 games in the last three years and even his production doesn't justify the salary he is being paid. Ballard was just a disaster of a deal and on top of that he is getting paid 4.25m to play on the bottom pairing.

Gillis has done a good job retaining the team's core though and keeping them signed at reasonable deals (the exception being the Luongo deal). I don't think he has done a necessarily bad job but he hasn't done enough to gain the praise that he gets from Canucks fans. The success he has enjoyed has largely been because of players that were already on the roster before he arrived.

All in all it is too early to judge Gillis too harshly but nothing suggests that he has been anything more than an average GM.

Flame away.

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10-13-2012, 03:17 AM
  #65
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While I do not doubt for a second that Bjugstad is a going to be a stud or w/e and Vancouver still needs to look forward to the future...

They still have a huge glaring hole(s) on the second line that need to be sorted out if they hope to even catch a whiff of a Stanley cup.

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10-13-2012, 03:20 AM
  #66
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Of course not. They don't NEED Luongo.

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10-13-2012, 03:23 AM
  #67
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The only available top-6 forward from interested teams is likely Hemsky. And I think he's not really what we're looking for. I'm kind of hoping that if we don't land a top-6 forward in a Luongo trade, one of Kassian/Jensen can find chemistry on the 2nd line.

Unless the top-6 forward is a clear fit for us, I think I may rather get a pure futures package and allow our prospects a chance to find chemistry on our roster.

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10-13-2012, 03:25 AM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Intense Rage View Post
Vancouver fans don't like hearing this but the only significant acquisition that Gillis has made on the current team is Hamhuis and that one was a nobrainer especially considering Hamhuis's desire to come home. His drafting record hasn't been anything spectacular, the one pick of his that made the Canucks was traded away for Zack Kassian who has a long way to go before he becomes significant producer.

Another much heralded accomplishment of Mike Gillis was bringing in Mats Sundin for 41 games. This supposedly propelled Ryan Kesler into a Selke winning center and the Sedins into Hart/Art Ross winners. It can easily be argued that they could have reached the same level under his predecessor especially since Gillis has kept the same coaching staff that was there when he arrived.

Then there was the Ehrhoff trade which I will admit was quite good, its just too bad that Ehrhoff is currently with the Sabres. Can't blame Gillis for that one, wouldn't have made sense for the Canucks to give Ehrhoff that kind of contract.

What comes next? Malhotra was great for one season, now he doesn't seem to be quite worth the salary he makes. Booth has only played an average of 57 games in the last three years and even his production doesn't justify the salary he is being paid. Ballard was just a disaster of a deal and on top of that he is getting paid 4.25m to play on the bottom pairing.

Gillis has done a good job retaining the team's core though and keeping them signed at reasonable deals (the exception being the Luongo deal). I don't think he has done a necessarily bad job but he hasn't done enough to gain the praise that he gets from Canucks fans. The success he has enjoyed has largely been because of players that were already on the roster before he arrived.

All in all it is too early to judge Gillis too harshly but nothing suggests that he has been anything more than an average GM.

Flame away.
Operational moves by gms are underrated. There is a lot going on behind the scenes that we never hear about. Unless you work in the industry people do not really understand. Most fans will judge only player transactions. But if we are to use such blind logic them performance of the overall team is what should be measured. Gillis has made back to back president trophy teams and a Stanley cup appearance. Not saying he is the best GM, but this is solid performance.

Flame away.

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10-13-2012, 03:28 AM
  #69
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Originally Posted by Numbers View Post
Operational moves by gms are underrated. There is a lot going on behind the scenes that we never hear about. Unless you work in the industry people do not really understand. Most fans will judge only player transactions. But if we are to use such blind logic them performance of the overall team is what should be measured. Gillis has made back to back president trophy teams and a Stanley cup appearance. Not saying he is the best GM, but this is solid performance.

Flame away.
So far I think Gillis has been good, but not great. The Luongo trade will be the defining moment of my personal opinion on him.

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10-13-2012, 03:55 AM
  #70
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Operational moves by gms are underrated. There is a lot going on behind the scenes that we never hear about. Unless you work in the industry people do not really understand. Most fans will judge only player transactions. But if we are to use such blind logic them performance of the overall team is what should be measured. Gillis has made back to back president trophy teams and a Stanley cup appearance. Not saying he is the best GM, but this is solid performance.

Flame away.
Why is it blind logic? How else do you measure a GM's performance? The only way I see fit is to look at the moves he has made and judge the worth of those moves.

How much credit can you give Gillis for assembling the team as it is today? Maybe I am giving too much credit to his predecessor but you cannot deny that Gillis was set up in a pretty good position. When he took over the team, he had a bunch of promising players as well as enough cap flexibility to make the moves he was able to.

Also I am not targetting Gillis specifically, I simply believe that there are a few top tier GMs and a whole bunch of average ones. And I don't think Gillis has done enough to warrant him being placed alongside guys like Ken Holland, Lou Lamoriello, David Poile, Dale Tallon etc.

Just for the record I am a Blackhawks fan and I give more credit to our success to Dale Tallon than Stan Bowman. Tallon did a fabulous job in setting up our team as it is today. It will be a while before I can say that the Blackhawks are what they are because of Stan Bowman.

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10-13-2012, 03:57 AM
  #71
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So far I think Gillis has been good, but not great. The Luongo trade will be the defining moment of my personal opinion on him.
which as Numbers explained is silly to do so.

Anyone questioning how good a GM Gillis has been just doesn't have enough information on what he's done to date. As Numbers said player transactions are just one part of building a franchise.

What Gillis has brought to this organization is a culture of winning. This team hasn't missed the playoffs since he became GM. Go through the entire history of this organization from 1970 - when has this organization ever had that "compete every year for the Cup" mentality through several years?

To bring that culture he's made several moves that largely get ignored. Moves that most other GMs aren't doing. Such as being more involved with their travel schedule, to doing sleep studies and changing practice habits, to involving nutritionists and psychologists, or bringing in skill coaches to work with all players individually. These are initiatives which were largely ignored by previous regimes here, and still are in many organizations around the league.

The bottom line is that the results do speak for themselves, and as much as people will dump on this team, they have been very successful over the years on and off the ice - isn't that the GM's ultimate job?

A GM's job isn't just to bring the right players in, and make the right trades, but to do every thing else around that to build a successful franchise. Since Gillis became GM the Canucks have been to the last game of the Cup finals, and won more games in the regular season than any other team in the league, while never missing the playoffs - and that after taking over a non-playoff team. How many GMs have that kind of track record in their first 5 years, in any organization. We certainly haven't seen any in this organization's history.

For me, I evaluate Gillis based on results. Whatever moves he makes we can't possibly evaluate without considering the overall impact it has in the standings and playoffs. As long as the team is winning and competing every year for the Cup, Gillis is doing his job.

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10-13-2012, 04:37 AM
  #72
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holy **** get over yourself.

what's amusing and entertaining is that people in Vancouver believe their team generates hate from anywhere outside of Alberta
Like I said, it was various articles and reports that I'm referring to. Not from Alberta - the one I recall was an article from Toronto claiming Vancouver is the most hated team. So it's really not about me.


Quote:
Most hated team?

If we're just talking about teams in general, it's the Leafs. Largest fan base and the greatest amount of haters (similar to the Yankees in baseball... except they win now and then).
As it happens, I agree with you. I think the leafs are the most hated, and as you say it is just a pure numbers game.

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The Canucks? Are you kidding me?

What have the Canucks done to be hated?
That's the funny thing, they have done very little. But when we talk about hate we are not talking about actions - we are talking about perceptions. People hate a guy because of their perception of him. And only SOMETIMES is this related to the guy's actions. The media is good at changing perceptions, and the media has been biased against the Canucks. I don't really care if you believe this, but if you carefully study this, you will realize it is true.

And the bias is from both Vancouver media and non-Vancouver media. Ex-players sometimes mention Montreal and vancouver are the hardest places to play in because the media is so negative towards the team. Toronto is too, but not in the same way. For example, even though Toronto has the longest losing record of any team currently, they don't get all negative attention from their own media. Whereas with Vancouver, despite winning 2 consecutive PTs, it's overwhelmingly negative media attention. It's the same thing in Montreal.

And once again, It doesn't matter to me whether or not you believe this, but if you do some objective analysis you will realize this is true.

So that's where I suspect any extra hate comes from in regards to the Canucks.
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They're a quality squad with some floppers.
That's one of the sweetest things I've heard you say

Quote:
As for Gillis being an "amazing GM" - Please remind us what players he has brought in to supplement the incredible roster he inherited.
I didn't say he is amazing, I said some people would say he's amazing. But as it turns out, I'm one of those people. So here's why:

Gillis has enacted a complete culture shift from the time he got to Vancouver. A) This includes renovating the arena and the facilites, and changing the whole culture. B) It includes spending money on every area, including scouting. C) And it includes a shift in the mentality of the organization.

C) So what has the shift in mentality brought? So far, it's brought the first (and second) president's trophy to Vancouver, as well as the third SCF appearance in team history. That's what he's done so far.

B) What about the extra money on scouting? He scouted and found Eddie Lack and Chris Tanev and signed them as free agents. That's who they've found so far.

A) And what has the culture shift resulted in? Kesler went from a good player (who'd never cracked 40 points) to an elite player. Edler went from a 20 point dman to a 50 point dman. That's not too surprising, young players develop, right?

So what about the Sedins - they had developed, and turned into really good players. But after Gillis took over, they became elite players. They were in their late 20s when this happened. Burrows is the same story - he went from 30-point scorer to 30-goal scorer, and this transformation occured in his late 20s. It's rare for that to happen to a player that age, nevermind three of them.

Is this all coincidence? Maybe. And it has a ton to do with the players' drives as well, I'm not underwriting them here, because they are amazing and driven people. But the fact is, Gillis' results are good. We have Kesler, Edler, Henrik and Daniel go from good players to all stars. Or as you put it, "incredible" players.

Not to mention he signed his team to reallly good contracts. That's a big point to make as well. (Burrows at 2 million???) It allows a team to be competitive by leaving room for other signings.

And as for the "supplementing", there is Hamhuis, Garrison, Ehrhoff, Samuelsson, Booth, Higgins, and as I mentioned, Tanev and soon Lack.

Good signings, and good trades. He signed Samuelsson for free, traded a 3rd-rounder for Higgins, and traded Samulesson for that 3rd rounder back, and Booth. He essentially got Booth and Higgins for Samuelsson, who he got for free.

Basically, it's been a complete makeover of the Vancouver Canucks. A full culture shift.

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10-13-2012, 09:11 AM
  #73
Beezeral
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Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
I wouldn't be too hard on Beezeral, he did acquiesce to some pretty good alternative packages for Lu on our board. They didn't include Bjugstad, but still very good pieces nonetheless.


The news is just confirming the rumour. Bjugstad was taken off the table by Tallon. It remains to be seen if anything else can be worked out... perhaps by way of a 3way trade?


CBA will stop all action though so it's kinda moot.
Appreciated. Was never trying to start anything with Canucks fans. Bjugstad was a name that was constantly brought up in trade rumors and panther fans knew it had no chance of happening due to Fallon's unwillingness to discuss bjugstad in trades that filled much bigger needs. It was simple as that and now sets the bar of how much value the panthers are willing to give up for luongo. Gillis may look elsewhere for a better return, but who knows what is really going on behind the scenes with luongo and gillis and what luongo is saying about places he is willing to play

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10-13-2012, 09:14 AM
  #74
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Originally Posted by veedubn1 View Post
holy **** get over yourself.

what's amusing and entertaining is that people in Vancouver believe their team generates hate from anywhere outside of Alberta and that Luongo will retain or gain whatever value he has if he's riding the pine or splitting time with Schneider.

Most hated team?

Of the current crop of successful teams, Boston is easily the most hated.

I don't just hate the Bruins... I hate Boston in it's entirety. That city has been far too successful over the past decade in all four major North American sports. **** them.

If we're just talking about teams in general, it's the Leafs. Largest fan base and the greatest amount of haters (similar to the Yankees in baseball... except they win now and then).

The Canucks? Are you kidding me?

What have the Canucks done to be hated? They're a quality squad with some floppers.

As for Gillis being an "amazing GM" - Please remind us what players he has brought in to supplement the incredible roster he inherited.

It's hilarious to hear certain fans claim that having Luongo and Schneider together in camp won't cause any friction. If that's the case, answer me this - Who starts game one and who starts game two (when the season finally gets underway)?


Simply starting Schneider ahead of Luongo at the beginning of the year will lessen the value of Luongo.

Why?

Because if Luongo gave Vancouver the best chance to win, he'd be starting every game instead of the guy who hasn't played a full season in the NHL. Benching Luongo or splitting the games 50/50 is a strong indication that Vancouver isn't as confident in Luongo's abilities as it's fanbase is and other teams will use that for leverage.

If Luongo isn't the starter whenver the season actually gets rolling, Luongo's value is hurt... there's no other way to look at it unless you work for Fox News.
Evidently, you missed the memo where the league itself and TSN speculated on us being the most hated team short of possibly Pittsburgh. Boston has lost their scorn since the Savard incident. And frankly, outside of Montreal, they generally have a balance on popularity.

What have we done? You tell us, because it certainly is a fascination at times just how volatile the dislike toward this team gets, especially here on HF. Regarding the Leafs, they are an inside joke nowadays. Mock team for missing the playoffs but no one actually hates them. Hell, even the Hab/Leaf rivalry has been somewhat mundane in the past few years.

What proof do you have to claim Schneider starts ahead of Luongo, or what ramifications, if any, it will have on his value? Despite this being said for the umpteenth, we only played Schneider ahead of Lu due to desperation. We needed a change, any change. Lapierre was playing on the second line at times. Ever hear the term, "change for the sake of it"? That is what we did.

That aside, Schneider had phenomenal numbers last season. I highly doubt any GM looking to acquire Lu would disregard him sitting based on that justification.

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10-13-2012, 09:23 AM
  #75
racerjoe
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Originally Posted by Intense Rage View Post
Why is it blind logic? How else do you measure a GM's performance? The only way I see fit is to look at the moves he has made and judge the worth of those moves.

How much credit can you give Gillis for assembling the team as it is today? Maybe I am giving too much credit to his predecessor but you cannot deny that Gillis was set up in a pretty good position. When he took over the team, he had a bunch of promising players as well as enough cap flexibility to make the moves he was able to.

Also I am not targetting Gillis specifically, I simply believe that there are a few top tier GMs and a whole bunch of average ones. And I don't think Gillis has done enough to warrant him being placed alongside guys like Ken Holland, Lou Lamoriello, David Poile, Dale Tallon etc.

Just for the record I am a Blackhawks fan and I give more credit to our success to Dale Tallon than Stan Bowman. Tallon did a fabulous job in setting up our team as it is today. It will be a while before I can say that the Blackhawks are what they are because of Stan Bowman.
I think I will judge how good he is on the two president trophy wins, SCF appearence and the GM of the year award...

I agree, Tallon was a great GM for you guys, and the funny thing is the reason he was fired (or atleast the reason we heard) was actually not his fault. the RFA' signings that didn't happen, were actually the responsability of the AGM. But whatever.

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