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N. Kadri discussion thread v12

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Old
10-12-2012, 02:10 PM
  #51
Rinzler
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Kadri's development has been average. He's where he should be, he's not behind and not ahead either. Would have liked him to be ahead but it didn't happen for a variety of reasons. He had his chance though.

I think they knew he would be long term project. He's one of those high end skill players who didn't have the work ethic and athleticism needed to be a top pick.

Lucky for us he's shown incremental improvement since his draft year and will probably not hit his stride until 24-25 years of age in my opinion.

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10-12-2012, 02:13 PM
  #52
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I like Kadri, but I'd definitely say yes.

He really hasn't improved much since he was drafted, and last year he took steps backwards IMO. I'd love to see him succeed as a sort of Voracek-type playmaking winger. Kid needs to up his work ethic though and become a much better 200-ft player.

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10-12-2012, 02:48 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Dangles McGavin View Post
I like Kadri, but I'd definitely say yes.

He really hasn't improved much since he was drafted, and last year he took steps backwards IMO. I'd love to see him succeed as a sort of Voracek-type playmaking winger. Kid needs to up his work ethic though and become a much better 200-ft player.
Not intending to call you out, but I'm wondering why you feel Kadri took a step backwards last year?

Every piece of information available to me suggests otherwise. I'm curious as to how you feel he's regressed? From my vantage point Kadri has improved incrementally every year and is on pace with others in his draft year with the exception of the elite top 4.

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10-12-2012, 03:00 PM
  #54
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Absolutely ridiculous to mention him with Giroux, who is a top 5 player in the game.

I don't think he is behind.

He is more or less on the same curve as someone like Pacioretty was or Hodgson is.
Very well said and here is something else to remember. Giroux was selected 22nd overall in 2006 and there might have been less preasure on him not being a top 10 pick. Kadri was selected 7th overall in 2009 and since he went to the Leafs obviously there would be more preasure to make the NHL right away.

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10-12-2012, 03:09 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Dangles McGavin View Post
I like Kadri, but I'd definitely say yes.

He really hasn't improved much since he was drafted, and last year he took steps backwards IMO. I'd love to see him succeed as a sort of Voracek-type playmaking winger. Kid needs to up his work ethic though and become a much better 200-ft player.
If you watched him even once, you'd realize that isn't true. Additionally, I'm not sure which "work ethic" you're referring to, but Kadri plays really aggressive when he's on the ice.. He goes all out each shift if you ask me. He has also taken significant steps towards becoming a more well-rounded player and I'm hoping with some of the strength training he did this offseason he'll improve upon his balance and strength on his skates -- which I consider to be the weakest part of his game.

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10-12-2012, 03:37 PM
  #56
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Kessel does not take contact. I guess he's selfish and is a bust.
I'm glad you mentioned Kessel. His skill-set is far superior to Kadri, which allows him to play a different roll at the NHL level. He is not a bust, but if he would play tougher, he would be one of the top 'complete' players in the NHL. As for now, he is one of the top goal scorers. Kadri, unfortunately, is not Kessel, when it comes to talent.

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10-12-2012, 04:07 PM
  #57
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Kadri took a step backwards last year, no doubt about that.

After a good rookie pro year with legit 1st line AHL production and legit 3rd line NHL production, last year he should have been absolutely dominant in the AHL and at least decently impactful in the NHL, but saw his production at both levels go down.

Whether that was all his own fault or whether he was poorly managed (both off-ice and on-ice) we'll have to see.

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10-12-2012, 04:24 PM
  #58
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Kadri took a step backwards last year, no doubt about that.

After a good rookie pro year with legit 1st line AHL production and legit 3rd line NHL production, last year he should have been absolutely dominant in the AHL and at least decently impactful in the NHL, but saw his production at both levels go down.

Whether that was all his own fault or whether he was poorly managed (both off-ice and on-ice) we'll have to see.
Maybe if you're simply watching the stats sheet.. Kadri looked a lot more comfortable and intelligent at both levels last season.. And I expect to see even further progress this season.

I agree with you on one point though.. This season, especially if there's a full season lockout, Kadri should be among the scoring leaders in the AHL and ready to make a permanent jump to the big team whenever the lockout concludes(or 13/14).

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10-12-2012, 08:48 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by Rinzler View Post
Not intending to call you out, but I'm wondering why you feel Kadri took a step backwards last year?

Every piece of information available to me suggests otherwise. I'm curious as to how you feel he's regressed? From my vantage point Kadri has improved incrementally every year and is on pace with others in his draft year with the exception of the elite top 4.
Sure, no problem. I think zeke touched on what I wanted to say below. When I say he took a step back I don't necessarily mean that he got a lot worse- moreso that he didn't advance in his development at all.

With that said, though, I do think he was 'worse' this past season. From the handful of Marlies games I saw, he was a non-factor for the majority of his shifts. Sure, he occasionally chimes in with an offensive spark, but it isn't all that frequent. In his first season in the AHL he had that 'swagger' and was much more dangerous offensively. He made those high-level passes. There was one game I was at in his pro rookie season, and he got three beautiful assists in the game- he absolutely dominated the offensive zone. Last year, from what I saw of him, he was less involved. He seemed to float around a lot, and his 'nifty mittens' were less effective.

Again, I like Kadri, and I hope he'll become an NHLer. But I expected his stats to explode (or at least increase) last year, but they didn't. He didn't seem overly superior to the average AHL player, and that's why he wasn't called up full-time.

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10-12-2012, 08:56 PM
  #60
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Without games, who can possibly know one way or the other?

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Old
10-12-2012, 10:42 PM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Dangles McGavin View Post
Sure, no problem. I think zeke touched on what I wanted to say below. When I say he took a step back I don't necessarily mean that he got a lot worse- moreso that he didn't advance in his development at all.

With that said, though, I do think he was 'worse' this past season. From the handful of Marlies games I saw, he was a non-factor for the majority of his shifts. Sure, he occasionally chimes in with an offensive spark, but it isn't all that frequent. In his first season in the AHL he had that 'swagger' and was much more dangerous offensively. He made those high-level passes. There was one game I was at in his pro rookie season, and he got three beautiful assists in the game- he absolutely dominated the offensive zone. Last year, from what I saw of him, he was less involved. He seemed to float around a lot, and his 'nifty mittens' were less effective.

Again, I like Kadri, and I hope he'll become an NHLer. But I expected his stats to explode (or at least increase) last year, but they didn't. He didn't seem overly superior to the average AHL player, and that's why he wasn't called up full-time.
I have always found that he doesnt seem to have a high gear. I see him play his pace, he is good but he doesnt have that burst like Crosby, Stamkos, Staal or even Grabo or Kessel. Those are players that can and will empty the tank if they see they have a decent chance entering the zone.

He is more nifty than authoratative if that makes sense?

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10-12-2012, 11:31 PM
  #62
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kadri was drafted as a center. a lot of fans feel his ceiling is 2nd line center with the ability to reach 60 points in a season.

is he following that path? no.

i did a recent survey on HF if it made sense to move Grabo for Kadri. the answer was an overwhelming "no". no one on this board believes that Kadri is good enough to replace Grabo or play as 2nd line center in the next 5 years.

how is kadri doing in the AHL? he used to play as a center for the Marlies. now he's a winger beside Aucoin.

so he's not good enough to play center in the NHL, not good enough to play center in the AHL, and now it's up in the air as to whether he can be a winger in the NHL.

fans are fooling themselves if they think that this is progression in his development.

this article is hogwash. it says almost nothing of any substance about Kadri. it does ask the question: is kadri behind in his development? i would say he's either behind in his development, or just on time to prove that he cannot cut it in the NHL.

in conclusion: yes. absolutely he's behind.

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10-13-2012, 12:00 AM
  #63
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Originally Posted by theremedial View Post
I have always found that he doesnt seem to have a high gear. I see him play his pace, he is good but he doesnt have that burst like Crosby, Stamkos, Staal or even Grabo or Kessel. Those are players that can and will empty the tank if they see they have a decent chance entering the zone.

He is more nifty than authoratative if that makes sense?
Great post. I absolutely agree with this. He's got sick hands, for sure, and he's got good vision. But his skill-set is not the type to dominate a game.

It's not that he lacks intensity, it's just that (like you said) he doesn't seem to have that extra gear.

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10-13-2012, 12:07 AM
  #64
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Originally Posted by ForSpareParts View Post
kadri was drafted as a center. a lot of fans feel his ceiling is 2nd line center with the ability to reach 60 points in a season.

is he following that path? no.

i did a recent survey on HF if it made sense to move Grabo for Kadri. the answer was an overwhelming "no". no one on this board believes that Kadri is good enough to replace Grabo or play as 2nd line center in the next 5 years.

how is kadri doing in the AHL? he used to play as a center for the Marlies. now he's a winger beside Aucoin.

so he's not good enough to play center in the NHL, not good enough to play center in the AHL, and now it's up in the air as to whether he can be a winger in the NHL.

fans are fooling themselves if they think that this is progression in his development.

this article is hogwash. it says almost nothing of any substance about Kadri. it does ask the question: is kadri behind in his development? i would say he's either behind in his development, or just on time to prove that he cannot cut it in the NHL.

in conclusion: yes. absolutely he's behind.
If your referring to your thread that just got closed that is clearly not what you asked. You asked if it's realistic to trade Grabo to make room for our prospects. (as in now not at the deadline let alone 2 or 3 or 4 or even 5 years from now).

In regards to this thread Kadri might still make it as a top 6er but the longer it takes for him to make that jump the more likely he never becomes an impact player in the NHL.

As this team improves and if Kadri makes it I find it highly unlikely that Burke would have 3 perimeter players in Kessel/Grabo/Kadri in his top 6. Kessel isn't going anywhere so one of either Grabo or Kadri are likely gone.

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10-13-2012, 12:14 AM
  #65
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If your referring to your thread that just got closed that is clearly not what you asked. You asked if it's realistic to trade Grabo to make room for our prospects. (as in now not at the deadline let alone 2 or 3 or 4 or even 5 years from now).

In regards to this thread Kadri might still make it as a top 6er but the longer it takes for him to make that jump the more likely he never becomes an impact player in the NHL.

As this team improves and if Kadri makes it I find it highly unlikely that Burke would have 3 perimeter players in Kessel/Grabo/Kadri in his top 6. Kessel isn't going anywhere so one of either Grabo or Kadri are likely gone.
i didn't mention anything about a deadline.

most HFfans believe that Kadri is not good enough to replace Grabo in the next 5 years. yeah now is now. and replacing Grabo means now and the next 5 years. and everything in between. did i misinterpret that thread? no one feels that anyone in our prospects pool is good enough to replace Grabo at 2C.

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10-13-2012, 12:28 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by ForSpareParts View Post
i didn't mention anything about a deadline.

most HFfans believe that Kadri is not good enough to replace Grabo in the next 5 years. yeah now is now. and replacing Grabo means now and the next 5 years. and everything in between. did i misinterpret that thread? no one feels that anyone in our prospects pool is good enough to replace Grabo at 2C.
Below is exactly what you posted word-for-word that asks about trading Grabo this season to make room for our prospects.


Is it realistic to trade Grabo and make room for our prospects?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




Lets face it. We are not good enough a team to make the *post season this year. We have Connolly who's suited to play 2nd, and Bozak is really best suited for the third line role. I say we open up a roster spot to get our young centers some experience:

Lupul Colborne/McKeggerz Kessel
Mac Kadri/Connolly JVR
Lombo/Frattin Bozak Kuli
Brown/Deschamps McClement Steckel/Komarov/Orr

*yes I know there's a lock out and I know there might not be a season.

It's time to assume that our prospects have matured enough, so let's give them some NHL games.

Grabo is not the future.

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10-13-2012, 04:08 AM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Dangles McGavin View Post
Great post. I absolutely agree with this. He's got sick hands, for sure, and he's got good vision. But his skill-set is not the type to dominate a game.

It's not that he lacks intensity, it's just that (like you said) he doesn't seem to have that extra gear.
Yep, sadly though that gear is the difference between good players and stars. If he cant find it you kinda have Kyle Wellwood 2.0. I am pretty sure he went to Roberts to find it but if its there, not sure, hoping but not sure. On the bright side he could transform in Connolly 2.0 which is a little better Wellwod 2.0...or at worst Bozak 2.01b

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10-13-2012, 05:29 AM
  #68
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Not behind or ahead. The amount of pressure he's faced is ridiculous. I'm not a fan of Don Cherry but he's bang on with Kadri. Kid leads the team in pre-season scoring. What do you do? throw him under the bus. I do like the approach Burke takes with prospects though, no matter where they're drafted, they're going to see some development time. I honestly believe Luke Schenn would have been a much better player today had he spent another year in the dub. Kadri was projected to be a second liner with an outside shot at being a first liner and as of right now, there's no reason to believe that this doesn't remain true. If he was going to be up, he needed top 6 minutes. Ron Wilson was a nightmare for Nazem, you feel bad for the kid.

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10-13-2012, 05:48 AM
  #69
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Not behind or ahead. The amount of pressure he's faced is ridiculous. I'm not a fan of Don Cherry but he's bang on with Kadri. Kid leads the team in pre-season scoring. What do you do? throw him under the bus. I do like the approach Burke takes with prospects though, no matter where they're drafted, they're going to see some development time. I honestly believe Luke Schenn would have been a much better player today had he spent another year in the dub. Kadri was projected to be a second liner with an outside shot at being a first liner and as of right now, there's no reason to believe that this doesn't remain true. If he was going to be up, he needed top 6 minutes. Ron Wilson was a nightmare for Nazem, you feel bad for the kid.
Don was indeed correct about this. Wilson was a nightmare period and not just for Kadri, I cant even begin to relay or express how negatively I felt about his system, press conferences, just everything outside of the style being entertaining at times.

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10-13-2012, 09:29 AM
  #70
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Originally Posted by Ricky Bobby View Post
Below is exactly what you posted word-for-word that asks about trading Grabo this season to make room for our prospects.


Is it realistic to trade Grabo and make room for our prospects?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




Lets face it. We are not good enough a team to make the *post season this year. We have Connolly who's suited to play 2nd, and Bozak is really best suited for the third line role. I say we open up a roster spot to get our young centers some experience:

Lupul Colborne/McKeggerz Kessel
Mac Kadri/Connolly JVR
Lombo/Frattin Bozak Kuli
Brown/Deschamps McClement Steckel/Komarov/Orr

*yes I know there's a lock out and I know there might not be a season.

It's time to assume that our prospects have matured enough, so let's give them some NHL games.

Grabo is not the future.
Thanks for re-posting. Yes I asked if we should move Grabo to make room for our prospects. The answer was an overwhelming "no". Kadri is considered our top prospect. No one on the board feels that Kadri is good enough to replace Grabo in the next 5 years. Based on this "vote of confidence" Kadri is considered by many to be behind in his development.

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10-13-2012, 09:50 AM
  #71
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He's just fine. I've reiterated this several times, each prospect has their own individual development curve. Look at the datsyuk, the zetterberg, the couture, giroux, perry, getzlaf, ennis, and so on.

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10-13-2012, 10:02 AM
  #72
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Originally Posted by ForSpareParts View Post
Thanks for re-posting. Yes I asked if we should move Grabo to make room for our prospects. The answer was an overwhelming "no". Kadri is considered our top prospect. No one on the board feels that Kadri is good enough to replace Grabo in the next 5 years. Based on this "vote of confidence" Kadri is considered by many to be behind in his development.
Just because he can't replace Grabo doesn't mean he's behind. When Grabo was still a rookie, he wouldn't have beat out a player of "current Grabo" quality.

Grabo's a great no 2C. Why can't people be thankful for that? It's a good think we have a dedicated player like Grabo. People need to stop making it a negative thing by belittling out prospects with it.

We've got good prospects and a good no2 C.

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10-13-2012, 10:03 AM
  #73
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Originally Posted by ForSpareParts View Post
kadri was drafted as a center. a lot of fans feel his ceiling is 2nd line center with the ability to reach 60 points in a season.

is he following that path? no.

i did a recent survey on HF if it made sense to move Grabo for Kadri. the answer was an overwhelming "no". no one on this board believes that Kadri is good enough to replace Grabo or play as 2nd line center in the next 5 years.

how is kadri doing in the AHL? he used to play as a center for the Marlies. now he's a winger beside Aucoin.

so he's not good enough to play center in the NHL, not good enough to play center in the AHL, and now it's up in the air as to whether he can be a winger in the NHL.

fans are fooling themselves if they think that this is progression in his development.

this article is hogwash. it says almost nothing of any substance about Kadri. it does ask the question: is kadri behind in his development? i would say he's either behind in his development, or just on time to prove that he cannot cut it in the NHL.

in conclusion: yes. absolutely he's behind.
I actually agree with this. Kadri's a tweener. He's going to have to prove otherwise, but if he can't cut it at center he's going to have even more troubles on the wing where his small size and not being strong on his skates, among other things, will hold him back.

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10-13-2012, 10:20 AM
  #74
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I'm glad you mentioned Kessel. His skill-set is far superior to Kadri, which allows him to play a different roll at the NHL level. He is not a bust, but if he would play tougher, he would be one of the top 'complete' players in the NHL. As for now, he is one of the top goal scorers. Kadri, unfortunately, is not Kessel, when it comes to talent.

is this also a shot at Fill being phat?


>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

20 years old 49 10 8 18 37
21 years old 74 15 17 32 44
22 years old 78 29 48 77 69

this fellow went on to be one of the all-time great Leafs

so at just turning 21 Kadri had 51 NHL games played w/8 goals 11 assists for 19 points

errie and I aint talking Pennsylvania

Nazem is just fine

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10-13-2012, 10:58 AM
  #75
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Would we as fans have liked to see more from Kadri at this point? Of course, but that is a problem of fan expectations. I think he'll figure it out and be a good player for us but more likely as a 2nd liner then 1st.

As an aside, how many assists a player gets does not indicate whether or not he is a "selfish" player. A couple good examples of this are Grabo and Versteeg, early in their careers both were very selfish players, but they still put up bigger assist totals. They were pass first players when they got in close but what made them selfish, and still does to an extent, is the way they tried to carry the puck through the neutral zone and beat defenders 1 on 1. I think Kadri plays very similarly to these two players and like them he will learn when to pick his spots a little better and adjust his game and become a good NHL player who plays a little bit selfishly just like they have. But it will take some time.

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