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Tallon won't trade Bjugstad for Luongo

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Old
10-13-2012, 08:32 AM
  #76
racerjoe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beezeral View Post
Appreciated. Was never trying to start anything with Canucks fans. Bjugstad was a name that was constantly brought up in trade rumors and panther fans knew it had no chance of happening due to Fallon's unwillingness to discuss bjugstad in trades that filled much bigger needs. It was simple as that and now sets the bar of how much value the panthers are willing to give up for luongo. Gillis may look elsewhere for a better return, but who knows what is really going on behind the scenes with luongo and gillis and what luongo is saying about places he is willing to play
I think Jugs was brought up the most, but I don't think he was really put in a lot of the proposals, I think it was a lot of what would it take? if I remember. I liked the talks with lots of FLA fans, most seemed like good hockey people, altough there was a ffew (what fanbase doesn't have a few) that would just over value and be completely unreasonable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bourne Endeavor View Post
Evidently, you missed the memo where the league itself and TSN speculated on us being the most hated team short of possibly Pittsburgh. Boston has lost their scorn since the Savard incident. And frankly, outside of Montreal, they generally have a balance on popularity.

What have we done? You tell us, because it certainly is a fascination at times just how volatile the dislike toward this team gets, especially here on HF. Regarding the Leafs, they are an inside joke nowadays. Mock team for missing the playoffs but no one actually hates them. Hell, even the Hab/Leaf rivalry has been somewhat mundane in the past few years.

What proof do you have to claim Schneider starts ahead of Luongo, or what ramifications, if any, it will have on his value? Despite this being said for the umpteenth, we only played Schneider ahead of Lu due to desperation. We needed a change, any change. Lapierre was playing on the second line at times. Ever hear the term, "change for the sake of it"? That is what we did.

That aside, Schneider had phenomenal numbers last season. I highly doubt any GM looking to acquire Lu would disregard him sitting based on that justification.
Didn't know who I should quote for this debate, but I never really noticed the hate, until we got tot the final. Then we just suddenly were. It really surprised me how many neutral people wanted boston, and seemed to just hate us. I would say the majority of people actually wanted Boston.

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10-13-2012, 08:46 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by racerjoe View Post
Didn't know who I should quote for this debate, but I never really noticed the hate, until we got tot the final. Then we just suddenly were. It really surprised me how many neutral people wanted boston, and seemed to just hate us. I would say the majority of people actually wanted Boston.
Yep, especially eastern Canadians. I went to a finals game in Boston and I'd say there were more people from Eastern Canadian there in Bruins jerseys than there were people from Boston.

I actually think the Canucks feud with HNIC and the subsequent way the team was covered has a huge part to play in it. While most of HF acknowledged that Auger was a terrible ref, that isn't the way it was played out to the majority of Canada.

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10-13-2012, 08:56 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by racerjoe View Post
I think Jugs was brought up the most, but I don't think he was really put in a lot of the proposals, I think it was a lot of what would it take? if I remember. I liked the talks with lots of FLA fans, most seemed like good hockey people, altough there was a ffew (what fanbase doesn't have a few) that would just over value and be completely unreasonable.
It was more of just being frustrated that many Canuck fans refused to acknowledge that guys like bjugstad/gudbranson/Versteeg were off the board. Coming up with an agreeable trade between 2 fan bases is pretty much impossible. But we should at least have enough respect for each other to listen to what each side knows about a potential deal on our own ends. That way both sides are more informed about what is going on, and we avoid the unnecessary flame wars

While it may take away the fun of speculating how your team will look with awesome prospect/player X, it leads to hundreds of wasted pages talking about a trade that one side already knows has absolutely no chance of happening.

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10-13-2012, 10:47 AM
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beezeral View Post
It was more of just being frustrated that many Canuck fans refused to acknowledge that guys like bjugstad/gudbranson/Versteeg were off the board. Coming up with an agreeable trade between 2 fan bases is pretty much impossible. But we should at least have enough respect for each other to listen to what each side knows about a potential deal on our own ends. That way both sides are more informed about what is going on, and we avoid the unnecessary flame wars

While it may take away the fun of speculating how your team will look with awesome prospect/player X, it leads to hundreds of wasted pages talking about a trade that one side already knows has absolutely no chance of happening.
I agree, there is a lot of crap to sift through to find the good stuff.

I totally understand what it was like on your side. Cause on our side, some of the things we got was just sad. I never had a dilusion of getting some people, (Versteeg/Gubranson/jugs/Huberdeau) but some people claiming your top ten prospects (after those guys too) were off limits.

Personally I really think a 3 way deal with us you guys and a third team to take Jose + makes sense.

An example that will not happen,

FLA
Luongo

Van
Shore (prospect) 1st (LA's for argument sake) Goc (roster player)

CBJ
Jose Theodore (as mentioned) Raymond (top 6/9 player)

Something like that anyway.

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10-13-2012, 10:58 AM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by racerjoe View Post
I agree, there is a lot of crap to sift through to find the good stuff.

I totally understand what it was like on your side. Cause on our side, some of the things we got was just sad. I never had a dilusion of getting some people, (Versteeg/Gubranson/jugs/Huberdeau) but some people claiming your top ten prospects (after those guys too) were off limits.

Personally I really think a 3 way deal with us you guys and a third team to take Jose + makes sense.

An example that will not happen,

FLA
Luongo

Van
Shore (prospect) 1st (LA's for argument sake) Goc (roster player)

CBJ
Jose Theodore (as mentioned) Raymond (top 6/9 player)

Something like that anyway.
I think Clemmerson might make more sense, as Theodore has a NTC.

Something like:

To Vancouver: Petrovic, LA 1st, Goc

To Florida: Luongo

To Columbus: Clemmerson + Raymond + Fla 3rd

Maybe? Although hopefully once the season starts we can get a better idea of who might be interested, as Florida isn't really a good fit for us rosterwise.

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10-13-2012, 11:02 AM
  #81
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In the end I think Luongo will be waived and Columbus will pick him up.

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10-13-2012, 11:09 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Scurr View Post
We've already had both on the roster for two seasons with pretty good success. I think Gillis along with some Canuck fans are comfortable waiting because we've seen this movie and it's nothing but positive for the team. Anyone that thinks it will become a distraction hasn't paid much attention to this team recently and/or doesn't know the personalities involved.
Well unfortunately you neglected to mention the person that won't be comfortable with this and thats Lou.

It's a joke to think that a player that has reached the heights he has and the level of competitive drive it takes to be what he is, will be all that comfortable being quite literally benched for how many games?

40/50 games possibly?

How would star skaters handle riding the pines for that many full games?

Being the back up tender in a game is no different then a skater being benched for the entire game. Now compound that frustration and the other emotions that are born from just 1 or 2 full game benchings and multiply that to a 40/50/60? game total?

Heck 4th liners and 7th D struggle with it when it's a common occurrence, now put yourself in the shoes of a star player who won his country the gold medal and went to game 7 over the last few years?

You really think he will give 2 ships the the GM that just turned him into a back up, is not getting what he perceives as full value?

HAHAHA of thats just rich.

Now with that said, there is a ray of hope for this season and that situation.

This lockout could be the perfect situation that could allow all 3 really affected by this, to survive it. (Gill,Lou,Schni)

If this turns into a compressed 40/50 game season, well.

Lots of back to back games and 2 in 3s.

It would make having two true starters a real boon and one could imagine ways that Gills could sell it to Lou as a good thing, for 1 more season .


Last edited by Faltorvo: 10-13-2012 at 11:20 AM.
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10-13-2012, 11:19 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by racerjoe View Post
I agree, there is a lot of crap to sift through to find the good stuff.

I totally understand what it was like on your side. Cause on our side, some of the things we got was just sad. I never had a dilusion of getting some people, (Versteeg/Gubranson/jugs/Huberdeau) but some people claiming your top ten prospects (after those guys too) were off limits.

Personally I really think a 3 way deal with us you guys and a third team to take Jose + makes sense.

An example that will not happen,

FLA
Luongo

Van
Shore (prospect) 1st (LA's for argument sake) Goc (roster player)

CBJ
Jose Theodore (as mentioned) Raymond (top 6/9 player)

Something like that anyway.
I think you have the value nailed, unfortunately those pieces don't work from the panthers perspective

Theo is set on retiring in FLA. he won't waive to go anywhere. It doesn't seem to have anything to do with hockey reasons. He just seems to want to finish his career in the state of Florida.

The goalie that would be heading out would have to be clemmer who was just re-signed as a UFA so that creates some issues on its own.

Now goc. With mueller's concussion issues, it seems unlikely Tallon would be willing to give up his #3 center. Losing goc creates more potential problems than luongo fixes. I feel like Tallon would try to move one of his many wingers as the roster player going out in a trade.

This is a really complicated trade. Luongo's value is impossible to determine because of his age/contract/NTC/apparent preference for Florida. I think the final deal to whatever team gets him will be something nobody expected.

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10-13-2012, 11:24 AM
  #84
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As has been stated numerous times before. Tallon is building a monster in Florida and I do not think Luongo would help them more than those pieces that they would give up. Florida has their future number one goalie in the system and in two years the panthers could be in the same position as the Canucks are with the Scheider Luongo paradigm,

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10-13-2012, 11:24 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Falconator View Post
In the end I think Luongo will be waived and Columbus will pick him up.
Honest question: but when was the last time a player of Lu's caliber waived?

Or even who was the best player ever waived (minus St. Louis/Grabner im talking established players, not players who blew up after being waived)

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10-13-2012, 11:25 AM
  #86
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Originally Posted by racerjoe View Post
I think Jugs was brought up the most, but I don't think he was really put in a lot of the proposals, I think it was a lot of what would it take? if I remember. I liked the talks with lots of FLA fans, most seemed like good hockey people, altough there was a ffew (what fanbase doesn't have a few) that would just over value and be completely unreasonable.



Didn't know who I should quote for this debate, but I never really noticed the hate, until we got tot the final. Then we just suddenly were. It really surprised me how many neutral people wanted boston, and seemed to just hate us. I would say the majority of people actually wanted Boston.
I went into the finals rooting for the nucks.

But i ended up switching to Bost.

Sorry, but some of the stuff i saw from Van players turned me completely off.

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10-13-2012, 11:26 AM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Falconator View Post
In the end I think Luongo will be waived and Columbus will pick him up.
does luongo have a no trade clause or no movement clause?

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10-13-2012, 11:31 AM
  #88
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Originally Posted by kack zassian View Post
Honest question: but when was the last time a player of Lu's caliber waived?

Or even who was the best player ever waived (minus St. Louis/Grabner im talking established players, not players who blew up after being waived)
Ridiculous to even consider the notion of Lou being waived.

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10-13-2012, 11:33 AM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jumptheshark View Post
does luongo have a no trade clause or no movement clause?
ntc.

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10-13-2012, 12:33 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Faltorvo View Post
You really think he will give 2 ships the the GM that just turned him into a back up, is not getting what he perceives as full value?
Maybe not, but what does that matter? He can't trade himself. All he can do is honour his contract and wait or pull a Heatley and turn it into a circus. Based on how he has handled himself as a Canuck, I know which one it will be.

I don't think it will come to that anyway. GM's have more urgency to improve their teams than their fans on HFBoards. GM's can't afford to sit on their hands and hope Lu falls into their lap, they have to improve their team any way they can. Adding a goalie like Lu is going to have a big impact on a franchise, someone is going to see that and make a serious offer, if they haven't already.


Last edited by Scurr: 10-13-2012 at 12:38 PM.
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10-13-2012, 12:36 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by Beezeral View Post
It was more of just being frustrated that many Canuck fans refused to acknowledge that guys like bjugstad/gudbranson/Versteeg were off the board.
You think that's frustrating, try making a fake trade with a fan base that isn't willing to give up anything of value. No prospects, no draft picks, no roster players. Florida has pulled every player in their organization off the board but is somehow still very active in these threads. That's frustrating.

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10-13-2012, 12:41 PM
  #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by racerjoe View Post
I agree, there is a lot of crap to sift through to find the good stuff.

I totally understand what it was like on your side. Cause on our side, some of the things we got was just sad. I never had a dilusion of getting some people, (Versteeg/Gubranson/jugs/Huberdeau) but some people claiming your top ten prospects (after those guys too) were off limits.

Personally I really think a 3 way deal with us you guys and a third team to take Jose + makes sense.

An example that will not happen,

FLA
Luongo

Van
Shore (prospect) 1st (LA's for argument sake) Goc (roster player)

CBJ
Jose Theodore (as mentioned) Raymond (top 6/9 player)

Something like that anyway.
Problem is Theodore has a NTC. Although he may just become a free agent if there's a lockout all year.

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10-13-2012, 01:00 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Beezeral View Post
I think you have the value nailed, unfortunately those pieces don't work from the panthers perspective

Theo is set on retiring in FLA. he won't waive to go anywhere. It doesn't seem to have anything to do with hockey reasons. He just seems to want to finish his career in the state of Florida.

The goalie that would be heading out would have to be clemmer who was just re-signed as a UFA so that creates some issues on its own.

Now goc. With mueller's concussion issues, it seems unlikely Tallon would be willing to give up his #3 center. Losing goc creates more potential problems than luongo fixes. I feel like Tallon would try to move one of his many wingers as the roster player going out in a trade.

This is a really complicated trade. Luongo's value is impossible to determine because of his age/contract/NTC/apparent preference for Florida. I think the final deal to whatever team gets him will be something nobody expected.

Yeah, I couldn't remember FLA needs, or really CBJ's for that matter. But thanks for the compliment on the value.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Faltorvo View Post
I went into the finals rooting for the nucks.

But i ended up switching to Bost.

Sorry, but some of the stuff i saw from Van players turned me completely off.
Just out of curiosity, what were those events? I can only think of one of the top of my head.

Everyone says diving, which we do, but every team has at least a few of those, and for my money I thought Boston was much dirtier, (admittedly biased). There was just a few things I remember, like Sedin being repeatedly punched in the head, or a two hand slash to the knee of Bieksa, that ended up spraining his knee, or a cross check tot he face of hank by Thomas, a move that is actually illegal. It was pushed farther after Lucic ran over Miller, and a few other instances.

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10-13-2012, 01:08 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by Scurr View Post
You think that's frustrating, try making a fake trade with a fan base that isn't willing to give up anything of value. No prospects, no draft picks, no roster players. Florida has pulled every player in their organization off the board but is somehow still very active in these threads. That's frustrating.
I guess we can start talking about Edler and Kesler coming back to florida in a deal then

Some of us want to discuss a trade that could actually happen. It's not an attempt to be disrespectful to canuck fans. It isn't Panther fans making Bjugstad and Co. off limits. It is panther fans inferring Tallon's intentions from everything he has done as our GM.

I am sure we could come together with a 12 player blockbuster that sends Huberdeau, Weiss, Campbell, and Bjugstad to the Canucks for Luongo, the Sedins, and Edler, but whats the point of that?

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10-13-2012, 01:42 PM
  #95
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Oh great this thread..... again

So a player's name is brought up in trade rumors and the Gm tells the player they aren't trading him.... I'll take that with a grain of salt.


Also I think I've figured out why Panther fans are consistently claiming everyone of their prospects to be untouchable:

Quote:
"You hate to put comparisons out there, but there are only so many guys that were that big, as big as Mario [Lemieux], and had that gift of having a pair of soft hands like [Wayne] Gretzky, for gosh sakes. I know those are big names to compare this young man to at this point in time, but to see the tools that he has, it's just phenomenal."

When your head of player development is saying that kind of stuff no wonder there is so much overrating going on

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10-13-2012, 01:53 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by Oates2Neely View Post
No way it will work. It's Schneiders' team now, Bobby Lou is good as gone and everybody knows it. Gillis is holding out for a last minute deal that he isn't likely to get. Luongo is a top notch goaltender, but his age + contract status are a factor in his value.
I agree. Gillis is holding out for 'pie in the sky' deal and it won't happen. Every asset has a value and Bobby Lou has been valued by other GMs', apparently for an amount considerably less that what Gillis has been asking. Otherwise he would have been dealt by now. He's due $6.7MM/yr for the next 6 years and he's signed until Haley's Comet returns (2022). Schneider will get an average of $4MM for the next 3 years. Gillis would like other GMs to think that Bobby Lou is good enough that they are willing to pay him nearly $7MM per as a #2. Really?

IMHO, Luongo is a good goalie, but he's not a great goalie. Clearly GMs in the league have placed a value on him at considerably less than the millstone of a contract he has now. The question is how much less? Whatever the amount is, deduct it from any expected trade return for him, and that's what Gillis will get. If he gets an offer of a 3rd round pick he should take it and run.

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10-13-2012, 01:55 PM
  #97
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http://www.startribune.com/sports/go...173584811.html

Into June, Bjugstad started to lean toward returning to school. Then, in late June, Bjugstad got wind that the Vancouver Canucks were pursuing him in a trade for goalie Roberto Luongo contingent upon signing Cory Schneider long-term. The trade talk came directly from the Canucks' brass, who wanted to know if Bjugstad planned to leave school. Panthers General Manager Dale Tallon heard about it and made clear to Bjugstad that the Panthers were not trading him.
Isn't that tampering?

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10-13-2012, 02:01 PM
  #98
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Isn't that tampering?
It's a rumour ND. Nothing else really.

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10-13-2012, 02:08 PM
  #99
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As has been stated numerous times before. Tallon is building a monster in Florida and I do not think Luongo would help them more than those pieces that they would give up. Florida has their future number one goalie in the system and in two years the panthers could be in the same position as the Canucks are with the Scheider Luongo paradigm,
yup. Luongo makes no sense for Florida.

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10-13-2012, 02:10 PM
  #100
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Originally Posted by Oates2Neely View Post
No way it will work. It's Schneiders' team now, Bobby Lou is good as gone and everybody knows it. Gillis is holding out for a last minute deal that he isn't likely to get. Luongo is a top notch goaltender, but his age + contract status are a factor in his value.
Good one!

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