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Botch vs Ferraro arguement (team1040)

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Old
10-10-2012, 08:11 PM
  #76
me2
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Originally Posted by AndyPipkin View Post
This is what I don't get. To do that Stevens would have had to hunker down. He hit guys, for the most part, straight up and down with his shoulder. If you happened to be short enough to take it to the noodle then too bad its hockey.

Even when the rules came out now the higher ups said specificly they didn't want to take out N/S head shots.
skip to 2min mark


Stevens always made sure to get shoulder into head if he could.


Last edited by me2: 10-10-2012 at 08:20 PM.
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10-10-2012, 08:14 PM
  #77
AndyPipkin
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^ Besides being late, I have no problem with that kind of hit.

Edit: What is wrong with that? The only head hit I don't like are the ones like Drury/Neil or Cooke/Savard.



Don't let beauties like this go from the game.


Last edited by AndyPipkin: 10-10-2012 at 08:58 PM.
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Old
10-10-2012, 09:04 PM
  #78
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Agreed. People like that are the ones who ruin it for people who just want to go out and have some fun. I don't like losing it at hockey but those are the types of people I get kicked out of games for.


Last edited by Royal Canuck: 10-10-2012 at 10:52 PM.
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10-10-2012, 09:27 PM
  #79
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Not surprisingly enough, the last time this happened was in the summer when listeners for 1040 were not listening as much. I'm sure they'll be chummy in 3 days.

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Old
10-10-2012, 09:31 PM
  #80
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I'm not a fan of Botchford, but he really didn't do anything wrong here. Ray must have been having a bad day or something.

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10-10-2012, 09:56 PM
  #81
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This whole fight is just bickering over nonsense. It started out as something meaningful but ended as just shots at eachother.

Ferraro is coming off as immature and whiney.

Not a fan of either Botch or Ferraro, but I'd give this one to Botch.
Man did Ray hurt his image here.

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10-10-2012, 09:57 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Reverend Mayhem View Post
Not surprisingly enough, the last time this happened was in the summer when listeners for 1040 were not listening as much. I'm sure they'll be chummy in 3 days.
They are probably high 5ing out the back at all the coverage.

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Old
10-11-2012, 03:47 AM
  #83
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Ferraro is probably right but Botch was more professional.

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10-11-2012, 04:47 AM
  #84
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Ferraro got himself all worked up about basically nothing and came off looking a bit silly, but Botchford is a moron and kinda made an ass of himself in the segment after the commercial break. You get the feeling Ferraro was looking for a reason to go off on him.

Ferraro apparently feels that trying to injure an opponent almost never happens, and I don't totally agree with that. I agree with Rintoul - I think it happens to some extent but it's generally the exception rather than the rule. Botchford seems to think it's the other way around though and I think he's way off.

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Old
10-11-2012, 05:09 AM
  #85
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Scott Stevens, Matt Cooke, and Chris Simon all come to mind.



We can recall these few recent incidents, both featuring Ryan Kesler as the target:

Pronger didn't seem at all to hesitate before stomping on Kesler; it was completely uncalled for. In such a scenario, it's very possible Pronger was prepared to injure another player if they impeded him. Being prepared to injure another player is much like having the intent to injure.


The score at the time of the Boulerice hit below was 7-2 Flyers. The puck was nowhere in sight when Boulerice cross-checked Kesler.


Do some players, at times, step on to the ice with the intent to injure another player? There certainly is evidence to support that argument. While Ferraro may have been morally-conscious as a player, and ethical in the way he conducted himself, there will always be individuals whose morals differ from his. Are there players who would intentionally injure others to gain an advantage or to seek retribution? Probably. The Stevens hits may be controversial, but there are other incidents we can look at to confirm that some players are willing to hurt others for various reasons. Oddly, the Simon, Boulerice, and Pronger incidents all featured well-known pests as the victims.

The incident below may be different in the sense that it was reactionary, but it provides more proof that players won't hesitate to injure other players at any given moment. Mikko Koivu's leg was broken on this play as a result of Mattias Ohlund's unnecessary two-handed chop.



One of the most publicized incidents in NHL history happened in our own backyard:


Another. Here, commentator Bill Clement affirms the belief that Hunter intended to injure Gord Murphy, going as far as to say Terry Murray "unleashed Hunter" to target Murphy.


In the two instances below, top players are being taken out of the game when the puck is nowhere nearby:

0:45 -- Dale Hunter's attack on Pierre Turgeon during the latter's goal celebration. While Turgeon is facing the crowd and lifting his arm, Hunter strikes him with his fist and knocks him to the ice.


Here's Tie Domi elbowing Scott Neidermayer away from the play during the 2001 postseason.


Do some players play with an intent to injure others? Absolutely. There is more than enough evidence to prove some players approach the game prepared to injure others and at times ready to target players.


Last edited by JetsAlternate: 10-11-2012 at 06:00 AM.
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Old
10-11-2012, 06:47 AM
  #86
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I never started a game with intent to injure. As play went on that changed sometimes, but in amateur sports that is left at the level of bruises.

Botchford and Ferraro are talking heads. They have relevance like posters on an internet site do.

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10-11-2012, 09:35 AM
  #87
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Originally Posted by me2 View Post
And Stevens could have gone 4 inches lower but chose to go for the head - he knew what he was doing. You say clean - I say not yet illegal.
Look back and think how those hits were viewed by the majority of fans, he was a legend and he's a hall of famer because of the intimidation and hitting prowess he had. In today's game he would be villainized for those hits but in the 90's and early 2000's fans cheered and idolized him for those hits. Back in those days a concussion was looked at as an unfortunate injury that occurs because of the physical nature of the game, while now we know and understand the effects of concussions a lot better and realize how important it is to avoid them.

Stevens did hit high but that was because of the the explosive technique he used. Some of his hits were pure head shots but a lot of them were hits to the chest and the head was contacted subsequently.

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Old
10-11-2012, 12:36 PM
  #88
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Look back and think how those hits were viewed by the majority of fans, he was a legend and he's a hall of famer because of the intimidation and hitting prowess he had. In today's game he would be villainized for those hits but in the 90's and early 2000's fans cheered and idolized him for those hits. Back in those days a concussion was looked at as an unfortunate injury that occurs because of the physical nature of the game, while now we know and understand the effects of concussions a lot better and realize how important it is to avoid them.

Stevens did hit high but that was because of the the explosive technique he used. Some of his hits were pure head shots but a lot of them were hits to the chest and the head was contacted subsequently.
You're confusing whether a hit was "clean" or not with whether there was intent to injure or not. Concussions are an injury, and he was dealing them out with intent imo.


Last edited by Scurr: 10-11-2012 at 01:38 PM.
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10-11-2012, 08:59 PM
  #89
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Ferraro is embarrassing. Sounds like he's drunk. And Botch actually tried to calm it down.

Ferraro comes off as sounding like someone that is insecure knowing that he's talking to a guy who is more educated than him.

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Old
10-12-2012, 09:15 AM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Scurr View Post
You're confusing whether a hit was "clean" or not with whether there was intent to injure or not. Concussions are an injury, and he was dealing them out with intent imo.
And Steven's wasn't trying to injure players he was just trying to hit them hard enough to make them think twice when he was on the ice. Stevens hit to hurt not to injure. Hockey is a physical sport it's ballet on ice.

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10-12-2012, 09:46 AM
  #91
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And your point being.... Stevens wasn't making a play for the soul purpose of injuring a player, he was making a hockey play. How is using your teamate to funnel a player into a hitting area illegal and not a hockey play?
Don't get me wrong I liked Scott Stevens when he played but he hit to hurt and if an a player didn't get up after a hit even better. It was a part of the game and while it was a hockey play it was still hitting with the intent of knocking a guy out of the game/ series. Call it what you will but it is intending to do as much damage to an opposition player's body and mind as was possible.

Every time I tried to hit a player I tried to hurt him and I expected the other team to be doing this as well. I did the same when I played football I hit to hurt and if the guy didn't get up....

If you hit to hurt you are hitting to injure. It is just the damage of the injury that is being quibbled about.

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10-12-2012, 10:23 AM
  #92
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I think most people who played contact sports grew up knowing that you hit to hurt, not to injure. The problem is, it is a fine line that often gets crossed and in the heat of battle, perspective changes without thought.

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10-12-2012, 01:54 PM
  #93
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I like both of the guys well enough, and they're entertaining as radio people in this town go.

However, I think Botchford came off way less ridiculous in this circumstance.

He only became condescending and an ass, after Ferraro had far obliterated that level.

By Ferraro's argument that "no one not there understands what happened", there's no use for sports news/radio/tv of any kind other than live sports. No use in discussing anything, cuz none of us have been there, or were there in the EXACT moment when it happened.

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Old
10-13-2012, 04:22 AM
  #94
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I like both guys on the radio, Ray doesn't seem to like Botch very much.

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10-13-2012, 04:28 AM
  #95
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If Ferraro made the statement that no player has intentionally tried to injure another player, he is full of ****. He knows better, but is obviously being disingenuous. Maybe it was Botchford's turn to have the correct argument?

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10-13-2012, 11:40 AM
  #96
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I don't care if it's true or not, when I saw that clip of Umberger virtually lying there dead and the poster's like "don't let beauties like this out the game!", it totally creeps me out.

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10-13-2012, 12:38 PM
  #97
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I don't care if it's true or not, when I saw that clip of Umberger virtually lying there dead and the poster's like "don't let beauties like this out the game!", it totally creeps me out.
I agree, I don't have the stomach for that stuff that I used to.

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10-13-2012, 01:38 PM
  #98
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I don't care if it's true or not, when I saw that clip of Umberger virtually lying there dead and the poster's like "don't let beauties like this out the game!", it totally creeps me out.
Oh please. We all love seeing a huge hit in football, a knockout or a broken bone in combat sports, a crash in car racing.

Tell me you didn't love it when Volpatti KO'd Winchester or when Rypien ragdolled Clune?

Hyperbole much?

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10-13-2012, 02:05 PM
  #99
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Normally don't have an issue with Botch but he was just a dick during that call. His comments after Ray left were just stupid, dumb that he had to go there after Ray left and I'm glad that Scotty called him out.

I do agree with Botch though, some players decide that they want to play to hurt, no question. Bertuzzi wanted to hurt Moore. Ray was off and his argument was bad.

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10-13-2012, 02:07 PM
  #100
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Ferraro is probably right but Botch was more professional.
Listen after the commercial break. Botch is a ******.

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