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Tallon won't trade Bjugstad for Luongo

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Old
10-13-2012, 02:11 PM
  #101
stryfe604
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Originally Posted by Imagine17 View Post
Oh great this thread..... again

So a player's name is brought up in trade rumors and the Gm tells the player they aren't trading him.... I'll take that with a grain of salt.


Also I think I've figured out why Panther fans are consistently claiming everyone of their prospects to be untouchable:




When your head of player development is saying that kind of stuff no wonder there is so much overrating going on
I don't agree with much you say, but wow DAT ASSESSMENT! The kid is good but damn Florida you scary. Imagine is spot on, if that is what your talent scouts are saying something is seriously wrong.

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10-13-2012, 02:17 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by OrrCam View Post
I agree. Gillis is holding out for 'pie in the sky' deal and it won't happen. Every asset has a value and Bobby Lou has been valued by other GMs', apparently for an amount considerably less that what Gillis has been asking. Otherwise he would have been dealt by now. He's due $6.7MM/yr for the next 6 years and he's signed until Haley's Comet returns (2022). Schneider will get an average of $4MM for the next 3 years. Gillis would like other GMs to think that Bobby Lou is good enough that they are willing to pay him nearly $7MM per as a #2. Really?

IMHO, Luongo is a good goalie, but he's not a great goalie. Clearly GMs in the league have placed a value on him at considerably less than the millstone of a contract he has now. The question is how much less? Whatever the amount is, deduct it from any expected trade return for him, and that's what Gillis will get. If he gets an offer of a 3rd round pick he should take it and run.
I am not a huge Lou fan, but seriously that is just wrong. Lou's skill isn't the reason his value went down. The situation has brought his value down. Most GM's know that Vancouver is in a tough (not bad) predicament. Either play Lou and have Schneider back up again. Or bench Lou and have him as the most expensive back up (insurance policy) in the league. His contract doesn't help. To anyone who thinks Lou is anything less than at worst 10th best goalie in the league is just believing the hype.

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Old
10-13-2012, 02:25 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by stryfe604 View Post
I am not a huge Lou fan, but seriously that is just wrong. Lou's skill isn't the reason his value went down. The situation has brought his value down. Most GM's know that Vancouver is in a tough (not bad) predicament. Either play Lou and have Schneider back up again. Or bench Lou and have him as the most expensive back up (insurance policy) in the league. His contract doesn't help. To anyone who thinks Lou is anything less than at worst 10th best goalie in the league is just believing the hype.


Quick
Smith
Rinne
Fleury
Howard
Thomas
Miller
Price
Schneider
Pavelec
Ward
Hiller
Brodeur
Anderson
Kiprusoff

But he's "just believing the hype".

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Old
10-13-2012, 02:26 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Intense Rage View Post
Vancouver fans don't like hearing this but the only significant acquisition that Gillis has made on the current team is Hamhuis and that one was a nobrainer especially considering Hamhuis's desire to come home. His drafting record hasn't been anything spectacular, the one pick of his that made the Canucks was traded away for Zack Kassian who has a long way to go before he becomes significant producer.

Another much heralded accomplishment of Mike Gillis was bringing in Mats Sundin for 41 games. This supposedly propelled Ryan Kesler into a Selke winning center and the Sedins into Hart/Art Ross winners. It can easily be argued that they could have reached the same level under his predecessor especially since Gillis has kept the same coaching staff that was there when he arrived.

Then there was the Ehrhoff trade which I will admit was quite good, its just too bad that Ehrhoff is currently with the Sabres. Can't blame Gillis for that one, wouldn't have made sense for the Canucks to give Ehrhoff that kind of contract.

What comes next? Malhotra was great for one season, now he doesn't seem to be quite worth the salary he makes. Booth has only played an average of 57 games in the last three years and even his production doesn't justify the salary he is being paid. Ballard was just a disaster of a deal and on top of that he is getting paid 4.25m to play on the bottom pairing.

Gillis has done a good job retaining the team's core though and keeping them signed at reasonable deals (the exception being the Luongo deal). I don't think he has done a necessarily bad job but he hasn't done enough to gain the praise that he gets from Canucks fans. The success he has enjoyed has largely been because of players that were already on the roster before he arrived.

All in all it is too early to judge Gillis too harshly but nothing suggests that he has been anything more than an average GM.

Flame away.

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Old
10-13-2012, 02:29 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by bhuya71 View Post
How about Lu to NJ for a first or a second plus a mid prospect...That kinda makes sense right?
How does that make sense? NJ can't afford his salary.

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10-13-2012, 02:31 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Imagine17 View Post
I'll post in whatever threads I want thank you very much

My question is why bother having this discussion? Hasn't most of this been said 1000 times before? Whats the point in re-hatching the same arguments over & over & over? Especially when no deal can be made with no CBA in place.


A smart man once said:
There are numerous things that can be done over and over again and you can expect different results. Shooting a hockey puck from the exact same position on the ice, for example: The goalie can stop one, you can score one, and you can hit the post.
Does the exact same thing happen every time someone takes a slapshot from the point? No: You can do it over and over again and expect different results every time.

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Old
10-13-2012, 02:31 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Ashley View Post
How does that make sense? NJ can't afford his salary.
Not to mention he isn't worth a first.

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10-13-2012, 02:36 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by DyerMaker66 View Post
There are numerous things that can be done over and over again and you can expect different results. Shooting a hockey puck from the exact same position on the ice, for example: The goalie can stop one, you can score one, and you can hit the post.
Does the exact same thing happen every time someone takes a slapshot from the point? No: You can do it over and over again and expect different results every time.
Good point. Care to change the subject from shooting a puck to the Luongo trade discussion that this thread is actually about while still getting that point across?

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Old
10-13-2012, 02:40 PM
  #109
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Not long before this degenerates into an argument about the list of 'all the goalies that are better than Luongo'.

Seriously, don't bother.

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Old
10-13-2012, 02:43 PM
  #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DyerMaker66 View Post


Quick
Smith
Rinne
Fleury
Howard

Thomas
Miller
Price
Schneider
Pavelec
Ward
Hiller
Brodeur
Anderson

Kiprusoff

But he's "just believing the hype".
I would absolutely rather have luongo in net than any of the guys in red for the 2012-2013 season

And IMO right now luongo is still better than Schneider, but I also agree with vancouvers decision to move on from luongo.

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Old
10-13-2012, 02:43 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by nhlfan9191 View Post
Edmonton may actually be a good place for him to end up. But I doubt they give prospects for him.
A package including Gagner / Paajarvi and Omark could make sense for both sides...

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Old
10-13-2012, 02:44 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Beezeral View Post
I would absolutely rather have luongo in net than any of the guys in red for the 2012-2013 season

And IMO right now luongo is still better than Schneider, but I also agree with vancouvers decision to move on from luongo.
While I agree with you, there are a lot of Luongo haters out there and this argument can't go anywhere good...

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10-13-2012, 02:45 PM
  #113
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Florida holds all the cards here. Luongo would be an excellent fit but they don't need him. Vancouver on the other hand needs to trade him or they'll be a huge media circus around the team when the NHL starts up again.

Gillis should just be happy that there is a team willing to take that contract off his hands.

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Old
10-13-2012, 03:00 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Beezeral View Post
Some of us want to discuss a trade that could actually happen. It's not an attempt to be disrespectful to canuck fans. It isn't Panther fans making Bjugstad and Co. off limits. It is panther fans inferring Tallon's intentions from everything he has done as our GM.
Fair enough. The problem is that we've also let you know the intentions of our GM, based on his history and what he's said, he isn't giving Lu away for nothing. You're annoyed that some Canuck fans didn't listen about Bjugstad being off limits, I'm just as annoyed that Panther fan still thinks they're getting Lu for nothing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DyerMaker66 View Post


Quick
Smith
Rinne
Fleury
Howard
Thomas
Miller
Price
Schneider
Pavelec
Ward
Hiller
Brodeur
Anderson
Kiprusoff

But he's "just believing the hype".
If save percentage is largely considered the standard for goaltending, and Luongo is top 5 all time, with a large sample size behind that, it's mind blowing that someone would argue he isn't top 10 right now.

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10-13-2012, 03:07 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by Scurr View Post
Fair enough. The problem is that we've also let you know the intentions of our GM, based on his history and what he's said, he isn't giving Lu away for nothing. You're annoyed that some Canuck fans didn't listen about Bjugstad being off limits, I'm just as annoyed that Panther fan still thinks they're getting Lu for nothing.



If save percentage is largely considered the standard for goaltending, and Luongo is top 5 all time, with a large sample size behind that, it's mind blowing that someone would argue he isn't top 10 right now.
It's not. One stat alone can make James Reimer look like Ken Dryden, and vice-versa.

Did you notice that Patrick Roy is 30th in all-time save-percentage? Because there are not 30 goalies in the history of the NHL who are better than Patrick Roy.

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10-13-2012, 03:13 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by DyerMaker66 View Post
Not to mention he isn't worth a first.
Luongo? This is a joke, right? Depending on how late of a 1st we are talking about, Luongo would be worth multiple.

Legit top goalie, for a single boom or bust prospect = not even close.

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10-13-2012, 03:17 PM
  #117
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Just bc the GM had said that it isn't happening to the press doesn't mean things can change...ala Cody Hodgson. gillis had stated numerous times he wasn't going to move Hodgson and then the trigger was pulled.

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10-13-2012, 03:18 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by DyerMaker66 View Post
It's not. One stat alone can make James Reimer look like Ken Dryden, and vice-versa.

Did you notice that Patrick Roy is 30th in all-time save-percentage? Because there are not 30 goalies in the history of the NHL who are better than Patrick Roy.
I'd like to see that stat that makes Reimer look like Dryden.

Roy played in a different era, we're comparing Lu to guys playing right now. Lu has the better numbers across the board over his career and is coming off a season right in line with those numbers. You might take the guy that has done it once, I'll take the guy that has done it for 10 years and is still doing it.

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10-13-2012, 03:19 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by ProspectProphet View Post
Luongo? This is a joke, right? Depending on how late of a 1st we are talking about, Luongo would be worth multiple.

Legit top goalie, for a single boom or bust prospect = not even close.
He's not a legit top goalie. Not even close.

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10-13-2012, 03:24 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by DyerMaker66 View Post
He's not a legit top goalie. Not even close.
Why not? By what measure would you say he isn't a top goalie? I have never heard amyone say that. I've heard "overrated" or "choker", but no one denies he's an excellent goaltender(except you).

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10-13-2012, 03:24 PM
  #121
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I wouldn't trade Bjugstad for Luongo either. I understand why the Canucks are asking but there isn't much that could interest me in trading Bjugstad away period, much less the contract problems and the fact Vancouver is going to eventually be pressured into moving Luongo for a discount. They might not be yet, but it will become an issue eventually.

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10-13-2012, 03:28 PM
  #122
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What about grass in the fall/winter?
green in florida, and the women are still in bikinis

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10-13-2012, 03:33 PM
  #123
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Originally Posted by DyerMaker66 View Post
He's not a legit top goalie. Not even close.
This statement just moots any argument you ever try to make on these boards. Good bye, Dyer.

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Old
10-13-2012, 03:35 PM
  #124
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Originally Posted by Scurr View Post
I'd like to see that stat that makes Reimer look like Dryden.

Roy played in a different era, we're comparing Lu to guys playing right now. Lu has the better numbers across the board over his career and is coming off a season right in line with those numbers. You might take the guy that has done it once, I'll take the guy that has done it for 10 years and is still doing it.
James Reimer SVP over 70 NHL games = 0.911
Ken Dryden SVP over 56 NHL games = 0.906

OH EM GEE U GUISE! REIMER IZ BETTER THAN KEN DRYDEN!

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10-13-2012, 03:36 PM
  #125
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This statement just moots any argument you ever try to make on these boards. Good bye, Dyer.
Luongo is the best goalie evar!

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