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Old
10-14-2012, 01:27 AM
  #26
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He's the highest paid nhl gm in all of world history.
He has been able to spend up to 15 million dollars more on his players than a substantial amount of his competition.
He has the highest paid front office and scouting department in the nhl.

Results?

His team's have finished bottom 10 four years in a row. Bottom 5 twice. We're devoid of elite talent, other than Kessel (but he costs a 2nd overall and 9th overall... ANY gm ever in the history of the world could get AT LEAST as good of a star at that price).

We have two unproven goalies... only have one center that even deserves to be in the nhl (who was arguably overpaid recently).
Our defense looks solid. Not spectacular. But solid.
Burke has done such a bad job at every other position, that the fact that our defense looks "solid" is seen as a great accomplishment.

If Burke's reign of terror thus far is seen as worthy of extension... then what on earth can be seen as failure?
If you finish bottom 10 four years in a row, of course your prospects will be marginally better. That's the same for ANY gm... let alone the highest paid in all of world history...

So what would be a "failure"?
Because I would call "failure" finishing bottom 10 four times in a row.. twice not even having first round ****ing picks... unproven goaltending... lack of number 1 center... little toughness... bottom 5 goals against in the league... and on and on and on we go.
Are these not "failures"? If those examples aren't failures, then what on earth IS FAILURE?
There's no way Burke should be extended.
In fact, he should have been fired ages ago...

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10-14-2012, 02:37 AM
  #27
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He's got two years left, I don't see why he needs to be extended now. If he doesn't make the playoffs in the remaining two years I see absolutely no reason to extend him.

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Old
10-14-2012, 02:44 AM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Disgruntled Observer View Post
He's the highest paid nhl gm in all of world history.
He has been able to spend up to 15 million dollars more on his players than a substantial amount of his competition.
He has the highest paid front office and scouting department in the nhl.

Results?

His team's have finished bottom 10 four years in a row. Bottom 5 twice. We're devoid of elite talent, other than Kessel (but he costs a 2nd overall and 9th overall... ANY gm ever in the history of the world could get AT LEAST as good of a star at that price).

We have two unproven goalies... only have one center that even deserves to be in the nhl (who was arguably overpaid recently).
Our defense looks solid. Not spectacular. But solid.
Burke has done such a bad job at every other position, that the fact that our defense looks "solid" is seen as a great accomplishment.

If Burke's reign of terror thus far is seen as worthy of extension... then what on earth can be seen as failure?
If you finish bottom 10 four years in a row, of course your prospects will be marginally better. That's the same for ANY gm... let alone the highest paid in all of world history...

So what would be a "failure"?
Because I would call "failure" finishing bottom 10 four times in a row.. twice not even having first round ****ing picks... unproven goaltending... lack of number 1 center... little toughness... bottom 5 goals against in the league... and on and on and on we go.
Are these not "failures"? If those examples aren't failures, then what on earth IS FAILURE?
There's no way Burke should be extended.
In fact, he should have been fired ages ago...
your way of thinking is wrong. you look at the past four years and say what has he done, forgetting what he started with. it isnt easy being a gm in this league you must pick your spots. Edmonton should have fired everyone seeing as they were bottom 2 the past 3 years. He started with crap and moved us into mediocrity, i give him credit for that. Would any other gm be able to pick his spot to acquire Phaneuf,Lupul Gardiner, all while riding rediculous contracts like blake,Toskala and the one Stajan wanted.

Yes we have failed as anything outside of post season is a fail, but you can`t expect him to build a cup contender in 3 years with what he started with. this takes time, cool you jets,give him 1 year, if we are still bottom 5-10 then he is in jeopardy,

Burkes team is starting to come into play with Kadri being close, all his picks are starting to come into shape and trades are paying off.

What did you expect he comes in and we draft a whole bunch of Jeff Skinners and John Tavares, he cant make a trade with himself

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Old
10-14-2012, 04:37 AM
  #29
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Extension?

Absolutely not. The man should not be allowed to finish out his remaining contract.

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Old
10-14-2012, 04:45 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Predaleafs View Post
your way of thinking is wrong. you look at the past four years and say what has he done, forgetting what he started with. it isnt easy being a gm in this league you must pick your spots. Edmonton should have fired everyone seeing as they were bottom 2 the past 3 years. He started with crap and moved us into mediocrity, i give him credit for that. Would any other gm be able to pick his spot to acquire Phaneuf,Lupul Gardiner, all while riding rediculous contracts like blake,Toskala and the one Stajan wanted.

Yes we have failed as anything outside of post season is a fail, but you can`t expect him to build a cup contender in 3 years with what he started with. this takes time, cool you jets,give him 1 year, if we are still bottom 5-10 then he is in jeopardy,

Burkes team is starting to come into play with Kadri being close, all his picks are starting to come into shape and trades are paying off.

What did you expect he comes in and we draft a whole bunch of Jeff Skinners and John Tavares, he cant make a trade with himself
From the highest paid nhl Gm in all of world history? What did I expect?
I expected one of two things.
After four years, we're either a team that makes the playoffs (not cup contenders... but at least making progress... not regression)... or we're a team with utterly elite young prospects like Edmonton.
We are neither.
We just finished lower in the rankings than when he arrived. With the exception of Reilly, we have similarly rated prospects now as we did then. Back then we dramatically over-rated prospects like Tlusty, Harrison and Pogge... now we dramatically over-rate prospects like Colborne, Biggs, and Kadri. Potato potahto.

The team Burke took over was 10th for goals for. The current team is 10th.
The team Burke took over was 4th last in goals against. The current team is 2nd last.
We still don't have a proven goaltender. We still don't have a number 1 Center.
We still don't have an elite prospect core.
It's been four years of spinning our heels.
All from the highest paid GM in all of world history who can spend up to 15 million extra on his players than a substantial amount of the competition, and who has the highest paid front office and scouting department to help him.

What could leaf fans possibly be happy about?
He has been a disaster of legendary and epic proportions. How can any leaf fans possibly be satisfied?

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Old
10-14-2012, 04:47 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Predaleafs View Post
your way of thinking is wrong. you look at the past four years and say what has he done, forgetting what he started with. it isnt easy being a gm in this league you must pick your spots. Edmonton should have fired everyone seeing as they were bottom 2 the past 3 years. He started with crap and moved us into mediocrity, i give him credit for that. Would any other gm be able to pick his spot to acquire Phaneuf,Lupul Gardiner, all while riding rediculous contracts like blake,Toskala and the one Stajan wanted.

Yes we have failed as anything outside of post season is a fail, but you can`t expect him to build a cup contender in 3 years with what he started with. this takes time, cool you jets,give him 1 year, if we are still bottom 5-10 then he is in jeopardy,

Burkes team is starting to come into play with Kadri being close, all his picks are starting to come into shape and trades are paying off.

What did you expect he comes in and we draft a whole bunch of Jeff Skinners and John Tavares, he cant make a trade with himself
If Edm traded there first round picks and then finished at the bottom the following 2 years they would have been fired .

What ridiculous contracts did he inherit ? Tosk was going to be a UFA , Stajan was making peanuts here on a short term deal and while Blake may have been a little overpaid he was still only making 3 mil a season .

Burke overpaid Komi/TC/Army/JML/Grabo and then aquired a dump in Lambardi to get a 6/7 D .

Every off season it's the same baseless optimism which is followed by another poor season . It's a never ending cycle yet certain fans never seem to see it .

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Old
10-14-2012, 04:59 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Disgruntled Observer View Post
From the highest paid nhl Gm in all of world history? What did I expect?
I expected one of two things.
After four years, we're either a team that makes the playoffs (not cup contenders... but at least making progress... not regression)... or we're a team with utterly elite young prospects like Edmonton.
We are neither.
We just finished lower in the rankings than when he arrived. With the exception of Reilly, we have similarly rated prospects now as we did then. Back then we dramatically over-rated prospects like Tlusty, Harrison and Pogge... now we dramatically over-rate prospects like Colborne, Biggs, and Kadri. Potato potahto.

The team Burke took over was 10th for goals for. The current team is 10th.
The team Burke took over was 4th last in goals against. The current team is 2nd last.
We still don't have a proven goaltender. We still don't have a number 1 Center.
We still don't have an elite prospect core.
It's been four years of spinning our heels.
All from the highest paid GM in all of world history who can spend up to 15 million extra on his players than a substantial amount of the competition, and who has the highest paid front office and scouting department to help him.

What could leaf fans possibly be happy about?
He has been a disaster of legendary and epic proportions. How can any leaf fans possibly be satisfied?
Great post

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Old
10-14-2012, 06:18 AM
  #33
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The negatives outweigh the positives. Fire him before the deadline.

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Old
10-14-2012, 06:46 AM
  #34
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I really don't have much problem extending Burke. I hope we do actually, I like the direction the team is headed and the organization top to bottom is in far greater shape then when he arrived.

That said what's the rush?

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Old
10-14-2012, 07:13 AM
  #35
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I wouldn't extend him now, because he still has 2 years left on his contract. Wait a year.

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10-14-2012, 07:40 AM
  #36
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Will say I'm closer to "should be fired already" than "let's give him an extension." So no, I wouldn't be giving him an extension any time soon.

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10-14-2012, 07:45 AM
  #37
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Can we extend Komi while we're at it? Might as well go all in.

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10-14-2012, 07:57 AM
  #38
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He has 2 years left on his contract, so I say wait for those two years if we still haven't made the playoffs then bye bye Burkie. Honestly he hasn't made the team any better then it was under JFJ. I'm not saying the prospects haven't improved but that only gets you so far, no results on the ice=no extension.

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Old
10-14-2012, 08:02 AM
  #39
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The next two years are critical. One thing to point out, we CANNOT lose Kessel and/or Phaneuf for nothing. So Burke HAS to set his pride aside, and be willing to consider any and all options to improve this club longterm, even if it means at some point he has to trade one of his prized acquisitions, and essentially admit his first "retool" attempt didnt work.

Obviously signing them should definitely be an option. But theyve both had to deal with a lot of criticism here, and havent even had the chance to play in the playoffs yet, and that doesnt look like its changing in the near future. Still a number of big question marks longterm, so I wouldnt be surprised if one or both of them did want to test free agency.

So Im ok with Burke being extended, but on the condition that he's willing to consider all options. And that if a trade makes sense that involves one of his two golden boys, he definitely should consider it.

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Old
10-14-2012, 08:12 AM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Disgruntled Observer View Post
He's the highest paid nhl gm in all of world history.
He has been able to spend up to 15 million dollars more on his players than a substantial amount of his competition.
He has the highest paid front office and scouting department in the nhl.

Results?

His team's have finished bottom 10 four years in a row. Bottom 5 twice. We're devoid of elite talent, other than Kessel (but he costs a 2nd overall and 9th overall... ANY gm ever in the history of the world could get AT LEAST as good of a star at that price).

We have two unproven goalies... only have one center that even deserves to be in the nhl (who was arguably overpaid recently).
Our defense looks solid. Not spectacular. But solid.
Burke has done such a bad job at every other position, that the fact that our defense looks "solid" is seen as a great accomplishment.

If Burke's reign of terror thus far is seen as worthy of extension... then what on earth can be seen as failure?
If you finish bottom 10 four years in a row, of course your prospects will be marginally better. That's the same for ANY gm... let alone the highest paid in all of world history...

So what would be a "failure"?
Because I would call "failure" finishing bottom 10 four times in a row.. twice not even having first round ****ing picks... unproven goaltending... lack of number 1 center... little toughness... bottom 5 goals against in the league... and on and on and on we go.
Are these not "failures"? If those examples aren't failures, then what on earth IS FAILURE?
There's no way Burke should be extended.
In fact, he should have been fired ages ago...
+1. Extension is completely out of the question.
I don't understand our team's direction to be honest. It's neither here nor there. We're not good enough to make the playoffs, and we're not bad enough to get a high pick either.

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Old
10-14-2012, 08:40 AM
  #41
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3 top 3 defensemen? Are you high?! Phaneuf is a top pairing D man, probably a #1. Gunnarsson is a #3 dman (imo)

Prospect wise, we have one of the top defensive prospects in the world in Rielly, good AHL prospects like Kadri, Colborne, and this season Frattin. Solid junior prospects like Biggs, Broll, Leivo. All we need is a bigtime goalie.

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10-14-2012, 08:44 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Mr Ball Hockey View Post
3 top 3 defensemen? Are you high?! Phaneuf is a top pairing D man, probably a #1. Gunnarsson is a #3 dman (imo)

Prospect wise, we have one of the top defensive prospects in the world in Rielly, good AHL prospects like Kadri, Colborne, and this season Frattin. Solid junior prospects like Biggs, Broll, Leivo. All we need is a bigtime goalie.
LOL @ your accusation and then state that we need 2. a difference of 1? are you high?

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10-14-2012, 08:44 AM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Disgruntled Observer View Post
He's the highest paid nhl gm in all of world history.He has been able to spend up to 15 million dollars more on his players than a substantial amount of his competition.
He has the highest paid front office and scouting department in the nhl.

Results?

His team's have finished bottom 10 four years in a row. Bottom 5 twice. We're devoid of elite talent, other than Kessel (but he costs a 2nd overall and 9th overall... ANY gm ever in the history of the world could get AT LEAST as good of a star at that price).

We have two unproven goalies... only have one center that even deserves to be in the nhl (who was arguably overpaid recently).
Our defense looks solid. Not spectacular. But solid.
Burke has done such a bad job at every other position, that the fact that our defense looks "solid" is seen as a great accomplishment.

If Burke's reign of terror thus far is seen as worthy of extension... then what on earth can be seen as failure?
If you finish bottom 10 four years in a row, of course your prospects will be marginally better. That's the same for ANY gm... let alone the highest paid in all of world history...

So what would be a "failure"?
Because I would call "failure" finishing bottom 10 four times in a row.. twice not even having first round ****ing picks... unproven goaltending... lack of number 1 center... little toughness... bottom 5 goals against in the league... and on and on and on we go.
Are these not "failures"? If those examples aren't failures, then what on earth IS FAILURE?
There's no way Burke should be extended.
In fact, he should have been fired ages ago...
You say this in every post. Do you have any proof?

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Old
10-14-2012, 08:45 AM
  #44
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Originally Posted by TheSilencer View Post
+1. Extension is completely out of the question.
I don't understand our team's direction to be honest. It's neither here nor there. We're not good enough to make the playoffs, and we're not bad enough to get a high pick either.
Yes, Burke should mandate that the team tank until they can contend for the cup. It doesn't work that way. Maybe the first year he came, there was no pressure to make the playoffs, but to think he is going to tell his coaches/players to lose on purpose is ridiculous.

Things he has done that I like: Drafting with a clear plan. The fact that many of the prospects are captains and are considered team leaders bodes well. Leafs are stocked with potential power forwards and two way character. Some very good trades, the best are ones that got rid of "impossible" to move contracts and brought back meaningful assets.

Things he has done that I don't like: free agent signings have been pretty bad. Failure to obtain a #1 centre. Sticking with Wilson because he was his buddy.

The #1 centre is tough to acquire. But at the end of he day we still don't have one.

Give him until the end of his contract to show his picks will turn into NHLers. Then extend him if they show they look like a consistent threat to make the playoffs.

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Old
10-14-2012, 08:52 AM
  #45
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Yes, Burke should mandate that the team tank until they can contend for the cup. It doesn't work that way. Maybe the first year he came, there was no pressure to make the playoffs, but to think he is going to tell his coaches/players to lose on purpose is ridiculous.

Things he has done that I like: Drafting with a clear plan. The fact that many of the prospects are captains and are considered team leaders bodes well. Leafs are stocked with potential power forwards and two way character. Some very good trades, the best are ones that got rid of "impossible" to move contracts and brought back meaningful assets.

Things he has done that I don't like: free agent signings have been pretty bad. Failure to obtain a #1 centre. Sticking with Wilson because he was his buddy.

The #1 centre is tough to acquire. But at the end of he day we still don't have one.

Give him until the end of his contract to show his picks will turn into NHLers. Then extend him if they show they look like a consistent threat to make the playoffs.
that's fair. were you disappointed at all with the fact that Burke did not draft a center in the first 2 rounds of the last two years? Biggs, Percy, Reilly, Finn all not centers.

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Old
10-14-2012, 09:25 AM
  #46
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LOL @ your accusation and then state that we need 2. a difference of 1? are you high?
Not defending BB at all here, but the other poster does have a point.

DP is a solid #2(a little over paid, but that was not BBs doing) and i have no issue calling Gunner a solid #3(are there better #3, heck yes), but he is closer to a #3 then saying Boz is a 1c or Riems is a 1g. Just saying.

Now on topic, extend BB, NOW?

HELL NO!

If anything he has one foot out the door and if the new CBA does not address contract issues or BB does not do a complete 180 (which i highly doubt) then it should be both feet out the door.

I don't want a GM that will go into every UFA market with such a self imposed handcuffing.

Brian, i don't give a damn about your ethics and moral code , I DON'T CARE, build a bloody winner, land some top UFAs at a quality cap hit, like other GMs are doing, or get lost.

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Old
10-14-2012, 09:30 AM
  #47
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Originally Posted by crump View Post
Yes, Burke should mandate that the team tank until they can contend for the cup. It doesn't work that way. Maybe the first year he came, there was no pressure to make the playoffs, but to think he is going to tell his coaches/players to lose on purpose is ridiculous.

Things he has done that I like: Drafting with a clear plan. The fact that many of the prospects are captains and are considered team leaders bodes well. Leafs are stocked with potential power forwards and two way character. Some very good trades, the best are ones that got rid of "impossible" to move contracts and brought back meaningful assets.

Things he has done that I don't like: free agent signings have been pretty bad. Failure to obtain a #1 centre. Sticking with Wilson because he was his buddy.

The #1 centre is tough to acquire. But at the end of he day we still don't have one.

Give him until the end of his contract to show his picks will turn into NHLers. Then extend him if they show they look like a consistent threat to make the playoffs.
To think that anyone thinks ANY GM would ever ask their coachs/players to lose on purpose is ludicrous.

You actually think there is anyone here that believes thats even possible?

Give your head a

"impossible to move contracts"? please enlighten me.

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Old
10-14-2012, 09:32 AM
  #48
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that's fair. were you disappointed at all with the fact that Burke did not draft a center in the first 2 rounds of the last two years? Biggs, Percy, Reilly, Finn all not centers.
I'm OK with that, I'm a BPA kind of drafter.

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10-14-2012, 09:32 AM
  #49
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2.5 year extension

Yeah, I say give him a 1 year extension, I like the core we have right now, we're very young and have a very solid prospect group.

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10-14-2012, 09:35 AM
  #50
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2.5 year extension

Yeah, I say give him a 3 year extension, I like the core we have right now, we're very young and have a very solid prospect group.
How could we NOT have a solid prospect group after landing 5 straight draft slots in the top 9.

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