HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Pacific Division > Anaheim Ducks
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

AHL Affiliate Discussion: Norfolk Admirals

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
10-14-2012, 01:34 AM
  #701
Exit Dose
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Cerritos, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 18,845
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by heksagon View Post
That seems odd. In Sm-liiga Sami fired the puck all the time. Maybe he is not fully confident yet.
New league. New team. A little hesitation is to be expected. Considering that he's been one of our strongest players, I wouldn't worry about it.

Exit Dose is online now  
Old
10-14-2012, 01:35 AM
  #702
DuckJet
Road Rash
 
DuckJet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Funkytown
Country: Kazakhstan
Posts: 38,463
vCash: 577
Quote:
Originally Posted by Exit Dose View Post
New league. New team. A little hesitation is to be expected. Considering that he's been one of our strongest players, I wouldn't worry about it.
Yep. This

DuckJet is online now  
Old
10-14-2012, 01:39 AM
  #703
Gibson Les Palms
Registered User
 
Gibson Les Palms's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Calgary
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,661
vCash: 814
There's so much talent on this team, but a lot of the guys haven't played together very much, with the exception of Holland and Palmieri. And they are a pretty young team. I think it will take a few games before they are clicking on all cylinders, but they'll turn into a very exciting team.

Gibson Les Palms is online now  
Old
10-14-2012, 01:44 AM
  #704
KEEROLE Vatanen
Failures Of Fenwick
 
KEEROLE Vatanen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 18,775
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckJet View Post
Incredibly jittery. The talent is there. His head isn't yet.
that's weird ahl.com says he had 42 saves

KEEROLE Vatanen is offline  
Old
10-14-2012, 02:00 AM
  #705
Paul4587
Moderator
 
Paul4587's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 14,613
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by OccupySheen View Post
that's weird ahl.com says he had 42 saves
He did and made some very good saves but he had some shaky moments and often wasn't sure where the puck was, he kept looking behind him thinking shots had beaten him. The potential is there though.

Paul4587 is offline  
Old
10-14-2012, 02:02 AM
  #706
DuckJet
Road Rash
 
DuckJet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Funkytown
Country: Kazakhstan
Posts: 38,463
vCash: 577
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul4587 View Post
He did and made some very good saves but he had some shaky moments and often wasn't sure where the puck was, he kept looking behind him thinking shots had beaten him. The potential is there though.
That's exactly what I'm saying.

DuckJet is online now  
Old
10-14-2012, 03:14 AM
  #707
KEEROLE Vatanen
Failures Of Fenwick
 
KEEROLE Vatanen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 18,775
vCash: 500
kind of sounds like a former russian goalie of ours, bryz didn't take off til he refined his technique, where's francois allaire

KEEROLE Vatanen is offline  
Old
10-14-2012, 03:16 AM
  #708
Exit Dose
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Cerritos, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 18,845
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by OccupySheen View Post
where's francois allaire
The unemployment line.

Exit Dose is online now  
Old
10-14-2012, 03:26 AM
  #709
Sojourn
Global Moderator
Where's the kaboom?
 
Sojourn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Country: United States
Posts: 25,424
vCash: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by heksagon View Post
That seems odd. In Sm-liiga Sami fired the puck all the time. Maybe he is not fully confident yet.
I'm sure that's part of it. Adding to that is the fact there is just less space out there, and there will be even less in the NHL. On top of that, you also have the more responsible NA game. All this leads to less quality shooting lanes for a point man to take advantage of. There's going to be an adjustment period. He's just on the conservative side of things right now. The key to finding shooting lanes in the NHL is lateral movement. The best shooters walk the puck laterally, and then blast it before the defense can adjust accordingly. If Vatanen can't learn to do this effectively, he'll spend a lot of time hitting shins.

Sojourn is offline  
Old
10-14-2012, 04:49 AM
  #710
Hagged
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Country:
Posts: 1,682
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sojourn View Post
On top of that, you also have the more responsible NA game. All this leads to less quality shooting lanes for a point man to take advantage of.

There's going to be an adjustment period. He's just on the conservative side of things right now. The key to finding shooting lanes in the NHL is lateral movement. The best shooters walk the puck laterally, and then blast it before the defense can adjust accordingly. If Vatanen can't learn to do this effectively, he'll spend a lot of time hitting shins.

The AHL game isn't more responsible than in the FEL, last night it even seemed to be quite irresponsible. I'm surprized there wasn't more goals allowed. NHL might have a more responsible game but I think NHL is still more attack first than FEL or SEL, the players just are quite much better.

One thing that made Vatanen the best defender in FEL was his self confidence in lateral movement. Sometimes it even not only opened him shooting lanes but areas to get close to the goal. Last night he didn't even take the first few strides. He was just moving the puck quickly to next available player, it seems like he doesn't want to try to shoot.

Hagged is offline  
Old
10-14-2012, 06:17 AM
  #711
Finnpin
Registered User
 
Finnpin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Helsinki
Country: Finland
Posts: 9,515
vCash: 500
Vatanen with -3 ouch...just bad luck or how did he looked in the 2nd game?

Good to see the team taking a win again!

Finnpin is offline  
Old
10-14-2012, 06:21 AM
  #712
Exit Dose
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Cerritos, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 18,845
vCash: 500
The -3 wasn't on his head. He was very good. Not as good as the night before, but still good.

Edit: After watching the first goal on us again, that one is partly on Sami.


Last edited by Exit Dose: 10-14-2012 at 06:42 AM.
Exit Dose is online now  
Old
10-14-2012, 08:17 AM
  #713
snarktacular
Moderator
Ducks tank is on!
 
snarktacular's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 16,636
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul4587 View Post
If Vatanen keeps playing as well as he's playing right now, what do the Ducks do with him if the season starts back? Do they leave him in the AHL or do they sit one of the 6 established guys under contract?
Allen and Souray are always injured anyways. It probably wouldn't be a problem for long. Although Vatanen isn't really the kind of defenseman to directly sub for them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hampeus View Post
I don't want to be bossy or anything, but shouldn't we start making Game Day Threads for Ads games? Since a decent amount of us are watching the games, we might as well do it.
I think we should have GDTs too. Just because there are so many posts, and there aren't NHL GDTs so we might as well have something like that.

snarktacular is offline  
Old
10-14-2012, 08:21 AM
  #714
Kalvinators
hurrr-durrr
 
Kalvinators's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Latvia
Country: Latvia
Posts: 8,783
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by My Cat View Post
Smith-Pelley is built like a refrigerator. Did he put on like 20lbs?
haha that asks for some photoshop
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sojourn View Post
It bothers me a bit that the coach is sheltering Vatanen defensively a bit. I understand why, but I'd kind of like to see how Vatanen does when there's more pressure against him defensively.
His -3 show that coaches aren`t sheltering Vatanen, or that if they do shelter him, then for a reason. He still needs more adjustment.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Exit Dose View Post
The unemployment line.
Who is our goalie coach now?

Kalvinators is offline  
Old
10-14-2012, 09:31 AM
  #715
44
Registered User
 
44's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Country: Finland
Posts: 337
vCash: 500
How's Ryan Lasch been playing?

44 is offline  
Old
10-14-2012, 02:43 PM
  #716
bumperkisser
Registered User
 
bumperkisser's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,490
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalvinators View Post
haha that asks for some photoshop

His -3 show that coaches aren`t sheltering Vatanen, or that if they do shelter him, then for a reason. He still needs more adjustment.

Who is our goalie coach now?
pete peeters

bumperkisser is online now  
Old
10-14-2012, 02:45 PM
  #717
Ducks DVM
Moderator
There is no grunion
 
Ducks DVM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Long Beach, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 16,338
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by snarktacular View Post
Allen and Souray are always injured anyways. It probably wouldn't be a problem for long. Although Vatanen isn't really the kind of defenseman to directly sub for them.

I think we should have GDTs too. Just because there are so many posts, and there aren't NHL GDTs so we might as well have something like that.
Allen has played 72+ games the last 7 seasons running.


Ducks DVM is online now  
Old
10-14-2012, 04:19 PM
  #718
Paul4587
Moderator
 
Paul4587's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 14,613
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ducks DVM View Post
Allen has played 72+ games the last 7 seasons running.

Well he missed almost the whole 08-09 season with a knee injury but yeah the injury prone label does seem to come from earlier on his career as opposed to more recent years.

Souray on the other hand is probably a sure bet to miss at least 20 games. I hope we insured his contract.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalvinators View Post
His -3 show that coaches aren`t sheltering Vatanen, or that if they do shelter him, then for a reason. He still needs more adjustment.
+/- is irrelevant, I wouldn't evaluate anybody on that stat without further context. They were sheltering him a bit but I think it was more due to having Clark/Smaby/Guenin who are known for being shutdown guys and who can take the tougher defensive minutes. Vatanen was definitely better in the season opener than he was in the second game though.

Paul4587 is offline  
Old
10-14-2012, 05:06 PM
  #719
Kalvinators
hurrr-durrr
 
Kalvinators's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Latvia
Country: Latvia
Posts: 8,783
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul4587 View Post
+/- is irrelevant, I wouldn't evaluate anybody on that stat without further context. They were sheltering him a bit but I think it was more due to having Clark/Smaby/Guenin who are known for being shutdown guys and who can take the tougher defensive minutes. Vatanen was definitely better in the season opener than he was in the second game though.
My point was: if he was on the ice on all 3 goals we let in last night, there can`t be any discussion why coaches shelter him. That doesn`t mean that he is disaster defensively, but he does have room to grow first. He must reach some level (of confidence and smarts, to adjust to NA rinks), before we can complain of him being sheltered.
Sojourn mentioned that he would like to see him getting tougher defensive minutes. If he can`t handle the ones he is given at this point, there is no need to give him more/tougher ones.

However, adjustment is only normal in his case. Coaches must shelter him at the start imo.

Kalvinators is offline  
Old
10-14-2012, 06:25 PM
  #720
Jason Lewis
Hockey's Future Staff
 
Jason Lewis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Country: United States
Posts: 5,084
vCash: 500
I wouldn't read into those +/- numbers on Vatanen too much at this point. It's only his second game playing in North America. Different style, system, players, and mentality.

A good well-rounded player with Vatanen's skill set will adjust in due time.

Meanwhile, Smith-Pelly is looking pretty good. I expect him to have a big year with the big club if the season ever gets underway.

Jason Lewis is offline  
Old
10-14-2012, 09:04 PM
  #721
Sojourn
Global Moderator
Where's the kaboom?
 
Sojourn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Country: United States
Posts: 25,424
vCash: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalvinators View Post
His -3 show that coaches aren`t sheltering Vatanen, or that if they do shelter him, then for a reason. He still needs more adjustment.
You're trying to create an argument based on a stat with no context. Vatanen is being sheltered a bit(it's apparent just by watching), and to be honest, he's doing okay with the minutes he's getting in the D zone. Better than I expected. He's no defensive stud back there, but he's not a liability either. His greatest strength in the D zone, at this point, appears to be his ability to get the puck out quickly when the opportunity exists, but unfortunately there are going to be times that a defenseman gets trapped in his own end, and that's when you see the real defensive capabilities in a player.

My request to see him get some tougher minutes was just to see how he handled them. Sbisa, for example, looked quite good this season in Anaheim, but QoC stats show that he was sheltered quite a bit by Boudreau, and that's a bit misleading to the bigger picture(that picture being how good is Sbisa, and how good can he be?). Wouldn't you like to see how Sbisa does when that isn't the case? I would. The same argument applies to Vatanen. I'm not saying the coach is wrong to do what he's doing. I'm saying that my personal preference is that I want to see how Vatanen does under a little more pressure in the D zone. Does he struggle, or does he show even more?

Sojourn is offline  
Old
10-14-2012, 09:07 PM
  #722
Sojourn
Global Moderator
Where's the kaboom?
 
Sojourn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Country: United States
Posts: 25,424
vCash: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by snarktacular View Post
I think we should have GDTs too. Just because there are so many posts, and there aren't NHL GDTs so we might as well have something like that.
Agreed. People can feel free to start a GDT for the AHL games.

Sojourn is offline  
Old
10-15-2012, 05:20 AM
  #723
QnebO
Registered User
 
QnebO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Country: Finland
Posts: 5,250
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Lewis View Post
I wouldn't read into those +/- numbers on Vatanen too much at this point. It's only his second game playing in North America. Different style, system, players, and mentality.

A good well-rounded player with Vatanen's skill set will adjust in due time.

Meanwhile, Smith-Pelly is looking pretty good. I expect him to have a big year with the big club if the season ever gets underway.
And living in different continent, using different language in different country, having no good old safe friendships ect.. That can affect you mentally, it takes litle time when you start to feel like home when you are moving for a new home, specially it happens to be in other continent and with fairly known, but still new language.

I think when he starts to feel like home in america and get used to people and get some friends and get used to speaking, it will help hes confidence atleast. Maybe when youre at so new and big place as new face, it can make a guy, who was playing in litle town litle weird first.


I dont know if theres any of that, I just bet there could be.


About +-, Erik Karlsson was -30 in hes first NHL season. Hes also Offensive defence man. Maybe it takes some time to adjust for the defence in the NA from Sami too. +- is rough index for new european OD obviousely. I want to remind that sami was leading +- in Finland last season and that Karlsson was +16 on last season, so these player types can adjust.

QnebO is offline  
Old
10-15-2012, 07:16 AM
  #724
Kalvinators
hurrr-durrr
 
Kalvinators's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Latvia
Country: Latvia
Posts: 8,783
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sojourn View Post
You're trying to create an argument based on a stat with no context.
More fact, than stat. He was on the ice in all goals against. -3 in a 4:3 game does show that he needs to adjust a bit and be sheltered. +/- is horrible stat as a judgment point, but this time it just simply shows that he was on ice in ALL goals against.

My argument was against the suggestion that coaches don`t need to shelter him, because we`d see how he does against top opposition. Not now. It could`ve been just bad luck to happen to be on ice in all 3 goals, but that shows that he can do better in circumstances he is put now, however, and only then he should get more important minutes.

PS
If reports are right, he played important minutes before, in SM-Liiga, so i think it`s just a matter of time when he will progress until that level also in AHL. Just, not now.

Kalvinators is offline  
Old
10-15-2012, 08:54 AM
  #725
Sojourn
Global Moderator
Where's the kaboom?
 
Sojourn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Country: United States
Posts: 25,424
vCash: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalvinators View Post
More fact, than stat. He was on the ice in all goals against. -3 in a 4:3 game does show that he needs to adjust a bit and be sheltered. +/- is horrible stat as a judgment point, but this time it just simply shows that he was on ice in ALL goals against.

My argument was against the suggestion that coaches don`t need to shelter him, because we`d see how he does against top opposition. Not now. It could`ve been just bad luck to happen to be on ice in all 3 goals, but that shows that he can do better in circumstances he is put now, however, and only then he should get more important minutes.

PS
If reports are right, he played important minutes before, in SM-Liiga, so i think it`s just a matter of time when he will progress until that level also in AHL. Just, not now.
Irrelevant. Hockey is played with six players per team on the ice trying to do their job, and it only takes one screwing up for a goal to be scored. You're clearly making this statement based on stats alone, because otherwise you'd point to a particular incident such as "He did this wrong here, and that lead to a goal." His +/- really doesn't suggest anything at this point. It doesn't show he can do better, or that the coaches do need to shelter him. The only thing it shows, in this case, is that he was on the ice for all of the goals, which is only meaningful if he was responsible for said goals. A player can do everything he should be doing, and still be on the ice for a goal. He could be on the ice for five or six goals. Vatanen wasn't without his mistakes in this game, but that isn't really the point, and he certainly wasn't responsible for all three.

I have zero problem with the coaches taking their time with him. I've already said that. The coaches are going to do what they feel is right, for the team, and for Vatanen. Personally, I'd love to see how he does with a bit more pressure on him, just because I'd like to see how he does when challenged a bit more(in an area he isn't quite as comfortable with). That's my personal preference, and my own expectations of Vatanen, who I think should turn into a pretty good defenseman at the NHL level. I just really dislike seeing an argument made against Vatanen because of such a terrible statistic, especially from someone who wasn't even able to see the game. Stats have their place, but more over the long-term. Leaping to a conclusion based on a single stat, over an unobserved 60 minute game, really isn't that place, IMO. I just don't see how you can say this game shows that he's not ready for more.

Sojourn is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:12 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.