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2012-2013 Connecticut Whale/Greenville Road Warriors Thread (AHL, ECHL)

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10-14-2012, 05:01 PM
  #176
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I read THN a while back and they had a quote by a GM who said something like he doesn't care if they lose, because some of those teams aren't built to win. They just want their players to develop.
Players develop better in winning environments.

That being said, the Whale is really lacking in high end talent. Their defense and goaltending are going to quite suck all season. Just gotta hope Kreider can continue to develop as a gamebreaker.

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10-14-2012, 05:15 PM
  #177
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Good job losing 3-2 vs. the St. John Ice Caps, already 0-2 this year.

Don't know what the puck Vernace, Pyett and Collins are doing on the Whale roster, same for Segal and Grant.

Parlett, Niemi, Tessier need to be in the ECHL, the AHL is one level too much for them.

Yogan and Thomas shouldn't be in pro hockey (yet), outmatched and it looks like the competition is too much for them.

Is Kolarik even playing?

Gilroy was awuful in the first game, much better in the second.

Cam Talbot please come back quickly!

Newbury, Haley, J.T. Miller and Kreider are making things happening, either physically and/or offensively.

Kyle Jean looks like a steal! Quick, strong, nifty, good nose and anticipation! Nice!
Not good to hear that about Yogan and Thomas, but it's great that Kreider, Miller, and Jean are doing well. Is there any word on when Hrivik will be healthy?

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10-15-2012, 05:32 AM
  #178
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I caught the 3rd period of HFDs game.

The 1st line with Kreider-Newbury-Segal looked decent, but HFD looked thin after that line...

The D ain't great, but the team infront of it was more than a little sloppy and that's of course a nightmare for any blueline. From the little I saw, I think Parlett and Niemi was OK. Neither might be ready to carry a sloppy team, but for a avg team they are avg D's so to speak. Gilroy played a ton and will keep doing so. Just as has been the case in NY for a long time under Torts, HFD also have a big problem with "sloppy plays". Looking at strategy etc in the big picture, arguments can be made both ways. And we had a ton of success in NY last season for sure. But certain plays are not good, not in the NHL/AHL, nor among 15 y/o's. And we just see too many of those plays not just in HFD, but also in NY. If you get a PP and win a FO back to your D, and every other player backs out from the net to get open so that you can set things up, the D should not throw the puck on the net. If a 10-15 y/o does that, his coach will complain. We see stuff like that in NY and HFD. If both teams change lines, and your D got the puck in his own end and 3 of his teammates go deep to attack as a group -- that D shouldn't send a long hard pass to the lone forward who is high up ice. If a 10-15 y/o does that, his coach will complain. We see stuff like that in NY and HFD constantly. And as a D on these teams, you will constantly face situations where you are going up ice and all of a sudden a play is broken up by the other team in a perfect situation and they can hit you with speed in a situation you are really vunerable. Its just SLOPPY!

The positive is for sure that both Kreider and Miller got a point each in the first two games. Kreider was ok, good in some situations and square in others. He and KN seems to be able to bring offense on a night by night basis. Thats good, Kreider will be a part of a decent 1st line in the AHL. Things could have been worse.

I liked the most what I saw from JT Miller though, due to the circumstances. It's important to remember that he can only play in the AHL because he came from the US Nat program. He is today as young as MDZ were his rookie year, and del Zorro needed 2 years after that to find his game. So I was a bit worried for JT Miller on a 2nd line in the AHL on a so-so team. The 2 pts is huge. Because zero in two so easily becomes zero in 4/6/8 and so forth. You know talk will start etc. Should he go back? On top of the two pts, Miller also made a couple of real confidence building plays. On one for example he picked up a loose puck behind his own net, had alot of open ice infront of him and basically took it the length of the ice, beat a D somewhat on the outside, and tried to stuff it in from a bad angle. That type of play is important for him for sure. Overall, he is probably a low end 2nd line C in the AHL, hence it's essential that he can show that he got plays in him that established AHLers don't...

Of the others, Jean were good the others were not. Basically. I've seen to little of someone like Yogan, but I am just not impressed with him at all. I guess I can't rule out that he could hold a spot on a 4th line or something. But I've simply just not seen anything that even would warrant him being given a look at the big league. What does he have that you can't get more of by picking up a vet for 800k? I don't see anything. But Jean can, and forgive me for saying this, be compared to like Aaron Voroos offensively when his game is working... A player in the Frolov mold... Its always kind of hard to read how a player like that would work in the NHL. They tend to be very streaky. Jean is big and strong and nifty with the puck. Hard to get a hold of. IE, this kid actually got a little potential.

Kolarik and Tessier did not impress. Only the 1st line looked decent, the other were caught in no-mans land. Just didn't look that impressive. Did Thomas and Bourque even play in the 3rd? Didn't see any from Hrivik either...

I loved the St. John's tv-guys. Gave a tremendous feeling to the game. Was the play-by-play guy Brittish? He was old, had smoked too much, and talked like it was 1956.

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10-15-2012, 07:16 AM
  #179
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Originally Posted by kaneone View Post
Do you guys really care if the Whale loses? I literally couldn't care less. The only think I would like is our players to play well, but if they still play well and lose, I don't give two *****.

I read THN a while back and they had a quote by a GM who said something like he doesn't care if they lose, because some of those teams aren't built to win. They just want their players to develop.
Well, you can find GM's that think Scott Gomez has value. The guys are usually pretty smart, but not always. I'd wager you find far more GM's that value a winning atmosphere in their top farm club than not. If you just throw your kids out there to develop without providing veteran stability and some sort of winning attitude, you become the Islanders. I think it's important for the kids to have veteran leaders whom they can model themselves after, and learn what it's like to play intense, competitive professional games. I want a winning culture throughout the organization.

If teams felt that winning at the AHL level wasn't important, you'd never see moves for AHL depth. We bring in guys like Kolarik, Newbury, Segal and Vernace to help Hartford compete. We could trot out a roster comprised exclusively of prospects, but then we'd get shelled every single night and the kids might get disheartened. It's hard to play your best and put on a good performance when the rest of your teammates can't keep up.

I think you establish an organizational identity of hard work and competitiveness. Players need to know that when they join the organization, we do what we have to to win, regardless of the level. It's important, IMO, to instill that in the kids when we first get them into our system.

Finally, there are actual Hartford fans in this thread. A lot of the regulars actually attend these games and consider themselves Whale fans.

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10-15-2012, 07:21 AM
  #180
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Originally Posted by MetalGodAOD View Post
Players develop better in winning environments.

That being said, the Whale is really lacking in high end talent. Their defense and goaltending are going to quite suck all season. Just gotta hope Kreider can continue to develop as a gamebreaker.
I think the defense will turn it around to some degree. They're never going to be more than an average unit, but guys like Vernace and Pyett are pretty good AHL players and should step it up. If we still have Redden after the new CBA takes effect, he should provide a bit of stability. They could definitely use another AHL veteran defenseman though. I think that will happen if Niemi, Parlett and Klassen continue to struggle.

When Talbot comes back, he should really help the goaltending situation. He's no star, but he finished last season strong and should at least provide adequate play.

First two games were tough, but I'd expect things to get a little better as the season progresses.

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10-15-2012, 07:33 AM
  #181
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Originally Posted by Ola View Post
I caught the 3rd period of HFDs game.

The 1st line with Kreider-Newbury-Segal looked decent, but HFD looked thin after that line...

The D ain't great, but the team infront of it was more than a little sloppy and that's of course a nightmare for any blueline. From the little I saw, I think Parlett and Niemi was OK. Neither might be ready to carry a sloppy team, but for a avg team they are avg D's so to speak. Gilroy played a ton and will keep doing so. Just as has been the case in NY for a long time under Torts, HFD also have a big problem with "sloppy plays". Looking at strategy etc in the big picture, arguments can be made both ways. And we had a ton of success in NY last season for sure. But certain plays are not good, not in the NHL/AHL, nor among 15 y/o's. And we just see too many of those plays not just in HFD, but also in NY. If you get a PP and win a FO back to your D, and every other player backs out from the net to get open so that you can set things up, the D should not throw the puck on the net. If a 10-15 y/o does that, his coach will complain. We see stuff like that in NY and HFD. If both teams change lines, and your D got the puck in his own end and 3 of his teammates go deep to attack as a group -- that D shouldn't send a long hard pass to the lone forward who is high up ice. If a 10-15 y/o does that, his coach will complain. We see stuff like that in NY and HFD constantly. And as a D on these teams, you will constantly face situations where you are going up ice and all of a sudden a play is broken up by the other team in a perfect situation and they can hit you with speed in a situation you are really vunerable. Its just SLOPPY!

The positive is for sure that both Kreider and Miller got a point each in the first two games. Kreider was ok, good in some situations and square in others. He and KN seems to be able to bring offense on a night by night basis. Thats good, Kreider will be a part of a decent 1st line in the AHL. Things could have been worse.

I liked the most what I saw from JT Miller though, due to the circumstances. It's important to remember that he can only play in the AHL because he came from the US Nat program. He is today as young as MDZ were his rookie year, and del Zorro needed 2 years after that to find his game. So I was a bit worried for JT Miller on a 2nd line in the AHL on a so-so team. The 2 pts is huge. Because zero in two so easily becomes zero in 4/6/8 and so forth. You know talk will start etc. Should he go back? On top of the two pts, Miller also made a couple of real confidence building plays. On one for example he picked up a loose puck behind his own net, had alot of open ice infront of him and basically took it the length of the ice, beat a D somewhat on the outside, and tried to stuff it in from a bad angle. That type of play is important for him for sure. Overall, he is probably a low end 2nd line C in the AHL, hence it's essential that he can show that he got plays in him that established AHLers don't...

Of the others, Jean were good the others were not. Basically. I've seen to little of someone like Yogan, but I am just not impressed with him at all. I guess I can't rule out that he could hold a spot on a 4th line or something. But I've simply just not seen anything that even would warrant him being given a look at the big league. What does he have that you can't get more of by picking up a vet for 800k? I don't see anything. But Jean can, and forgive me for saying this, be compared to like Aaron Voroos offensively when his game is working... A player in the Frolov mold... Its always kind of hard to read how a player like that would work in the NHL. They tend to be very streaky. Jean is big and strong and nifty with the puck. Hard to get a hold of. IE, this kid actually got a little potential.

Kolarik and Tessier did not impress. Only the 1st line looked decent, the other were caught in no-mans land. Just didn't look that impressive. Did Thomas and Bourque even play in the 3rd? Didn't see any from Hrivik either...

I loved the St. John's tv-guys. Gave a tremendous feeling to the game. Was the play-by-play guy Brittish? He was old, had smoked too much, and talked like it was 1956.
Streaky is a great way to describe Kyle Jean. That was the way I saw him while watching him in juniors. I didn't get the sense that he had a high hockey IQ. He also didn't use his body very effectively in juniors. That may have changed while he played for LSSU though.

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10-15-2012, 07:54 AM
  #182
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Hopefully we found our forward version of Girardi in Jean. Undrafted player that becomes an important piece to the team.

Dissapointed that Yogan is struggling. With his size and tool set he should be an effective player. Unsure of what the issue is so far. Hopefully he doesn't bust.

Kreider and Miller...love the two of them.

Thomas, not surprised hes struggling. This isn't a teenage league against teenage goaltenders. Grown men will push around a kid of his size. He has to learn how to find open space. For every Gerbe there are a hundred other small skill guys that don't make it. He has to have superior strength and conditioning. Players his size need to work harder than everyone else, on and off the ice.

Not expecting much from anyone else. Hopefully Hrivik returns and develops.

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10-15-2012, 08:02 AM
  #183
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This is a very big year for Yogan. He has the size to play in the AHL but in Peterborough he was THE guy. He developed well last year but he was getting a lot of ice time. Moving forward he will need to be more efficient and consistent in his play as he won't be getting top PP time with 1st line minutes.

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10-15-2012, 08:19 AM
  #184
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I think Yogan will be fine. He's missed a lot of hockey the past few years, so he still has some catching up to do. He's 20, but developmentally is about a year younger. He's big and strong but still a little raw. I'll give him a couple months to adjust to the professional game before I worry about evaluating his development. He'll learn to use his body against professionals soon enough.

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10-15-2012, 08:45 AM
  #185
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Yogan's first 3 games with the Petes last year were pretty "meh" as well. My gut says that once Kreider is back with the big club, Yogan will get more opportunities.

It's the same thing every year. A couple of guys look good and make the rest of the crop look really bad. People pull out the "I told you so" button and start hammering away at it, and people start to panic. I remember some Buffalo fans flipping out because Tyler Ennis was blanked through his first 4 AHL games. Then he finally got it together and killed it.

Point being, you can't judge anything on a handful of games.

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10-15-2012, 08:46 AM
  #186
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^^^Very good point about the lost year of development. He was raw to begin with when he was drafted, then losing a year with the injury only made matters worse. Just needs time.

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10-15-2012, 08:50 AM
  #187
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Originally Posted by TCNorthstars View Post
Streaky is a great way to describe Kyle Jean. That was the way I saw him while watching him in juniors. I didn't get the sense that he had a high hockey IQ. He also didn't use his body very effectively in juniors. That may have changed while he played for LSSU though.
Yeah, I figure. He is like great in certain situations. But you don't want him skating in no-mans-land. He is hardly Ruslan Fedetenko II away from the puck. He isn't that shrewed on the forecheck (and at 6'4 hardly a waterbug), and so forth.

At the same time, he is involved on a regular basis now. He was very involved from what I saw of him in rookie camp. Maybe he can keep it up? But more often than not, player like him seem to struggle to get just involved. They end up in a sit that suits them and they score like 0.75-1 PPG, then they face some adversity and score 2 pts in 20 games.

But he seems like a great pick-up for sure.

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10-15-2012, 08:59 AM
  #188
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From all accounts it sounds like Jean, if he can develop properly, will be a bit of a John Mitchell-like player.

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10-15-2012, 09:18 AM
  #189
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I would like to see the AHL team win but really for me its more on seeing how the legit prospects do. Kreider and Miller could be Rangers when the season starts. Well Kreider is almost a lock unless he totally blows it which I highly doubt.

After that lets see what Jean, Yogan, , Thomas, Hrvik can do. They all have a % chance of making it up to the Rangers at some point. Guys like Haley, Segal, Newbury, Kolarik are AHL vets. I dont expect them to do much in the NHL excpet for sparing or a few game call ups. Not bad guys to have around.

I actually think the F group in CT is just fine and gives the Rangers some depth.

D is a different story which is why Gilroy is back. Its thin but will be better with McIlrath healthy

In G, well we have Henrik on the big club, lol.........this is why Biron got 2 more yrs too

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10-15-2012, 09:35 AM
  #190
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I would like to see the AHL team win but really for me its more on seeing how the legit prospects do. Kreider and Miller could be Rangers when the season starts. Well Kreider is almost a lock unless he totally blows it which I highly doubt.

After that lets see what Jean, Yogan, , Thomas, Hrvik can do. They all have a % chance of making it up to the Rangers at some point. Guys like Haley, Segal, Newbury, Kolarik are AHL vets. I dont expect them to do much in the NHL excpet for sparing or a few game call ups. Not bad guys to have around.

I actually think the F group in CT is just fine and gives the Rangers some depth.

D is a different story which is why Gilroy is back. Its thin but will be better with McIlrath healthy

In G, well we have Henrik on the big club, lol.........this is why Biron got 2 more yrs too
I've seen both NJD and Det's AHL teams produce very good NHLers on a regular basis on abandoned AHL teams basically. I've thought about that many times. I definitely don't think its a given that a great AHL team will develop prospects better than a worthless AHL team. Especially if you don't have all that many pure prospects on it (like of course its a indication of the value of prospects if you have 15 prospects that you believe is awsome in the AHL and they go 10-72 for the year...).

At the same time, during the current circumstances, if you watch the game of course you want them to win.

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10-15-2012, 09:43 AM
  #191
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I think Yogan will be fine. He's missed a lot of hockey the past few years, so he still has some catching up to do. He's 20, but developmentally is about a year younger. He's big and strong but still a little raw. I'll give him a couple months to adjust to the professional game before I worry about evaluating his development. He'll learn to use his body against professionals soon enough.
It really sucks for US junior players for that age because of the CHL's rules. Yogan could probably use another year in the O but the foreign/overage players limit really impacts those in between players.

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10-15-2012, 09:49 AM
  #192
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I would like to see the AHL team win but really for me its more on seeing how the legit prospects do. Kreider and Miller could be Rangers when the season starts. Well Kreider is almost a lock unless he totally blows it which I highly doubt.

After that lets see what Jean, Yogan, , Thomas, Hrvik can do. They all have a % chance of making it up to the Rangers at some point. Guys like Haley, Segal, Newbury, Kolarik are AHL vets. I dont expect them to do much in the NHL excpet for sparing or a few game call ups. Not bad guys to have around.

I actually think the F group in CT is just fine and gives the Rangers some depth.

D is a different story which is why Gilroy is back. Its thin but will be better with McIlrath healthy

In G, well we have Henrik on the big club, lol.........this is why Biron got 2 more yrs too
I think that you are selling Kolarik and Haley short. Both have some upside. As the season progresses I expect to see Kolarik start to light up the AHL. His hockey sense and offensive skills are very good.

Haley could, and may be part of the NHL team to start the season. He is tough-as-nails and is a North-South player that Torts likes on his bottom lines. IMO he was a very good pick-up in free agency.

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10-15-2012, 10:20 AM
  #193
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Dare I say it, but the Whale could reeeeeeeally use a guy like Redden right about now...

EDIT: not to mention McIlrath.


Last edited by BrooklynRangersFan: 10-15-2012 at 10:47 AM.
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10-15-2012, 10:29 AM
  #194
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I think that you are selling Kolarik and Haley short. Both have some upside. As the season progresses I expect to see Kolarik start to light up the AHL. His hockey sense and offensive skills are very good.

Haley could, and may be part of the NHL team to start the season. He is tough-as-nails and is a North-South player that Torts likes on his bottom lines. IMO he was a very good pick-up in free agency.
I think Kolarik is a good player but he needs to get a full yr under his belt after last yrs injury. Wont be shocked to see him get a call up on the Rangers 4th line.

I actually think Haley starts on the Rangers as a spare based on the current roster

Also Newbury and Segal are NHL call up options. To me these 4 are what they are which are good AHL players that are fringe NHL talents. Does not mean they suck but I just dont expect much more than 4th line NHL duty once ina while if an injury occurs.

Have to think upfront the Rangers are set when healthy with Richards, Stepan, Boyle, Halpern, Gaborik, Callahan, Pyatt, Asham, Nash, Kreider, Hagelin, Rupp

after that I think Miller is going to be the next full time Ranger once he gets some experience

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10-15-2012, 10:32 AM
  #195
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Dare I say it, but the Whale could reeeeeeeally use a guy like Redden right about now...
yea they could but Wade will be a UFA once all this lockout crap is done. they are going to change the Salary Cap structure for sure and likely allow a bunch of buyouts for teams to that need to get their numbers down to get down.

Redden deserves a chance to be a 6th Dman on a NHL team.

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10-15-2012, 12:10 PM
  #196
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I think Kolarik is a good player but he needs to get a full yr under his belt after last yrs injury. Wont be shocked to see him get a call up on the Rangers 4th line.

I actually think Haley starts on the Rangers as a spare based on the current roster

Also Newbury and Segal are NHL call up options. To me these 4 are what they are which are good AHL players that are fringe NHL talents. Does not mean they suck but I just dont expect much more than 4th line NHL duty once ina while if an injury occurs.

Have to think upfront the Rangers are set when healthy with Richards, Stepan, Boyle, Halpern, Gaborik, Callahan, Pyatt, Asham, Nash, Kreider, Hagelin, Rupp

after that I think Miller is going to be the next full time Ranger once he gets some experience
I really think Kolarik was closer to the NHL at the beginning of last season before his injury. Torts liked him and he was good in his call-up. He is slick with the puck which is something the team needs.

Haley, Kolarik and Newbury will be the primary call-ups this season. I would doubt the Rangers rush Miller into NHL action this season unless he really sets the world on fire down in the AHL. Let him develop slowly and mature down there. As the season progresses he will fatigue, harder schedule and more difficult competition.

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10-15-2012, 12:32 PM
  #197
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From all accounts it sounds like Jean, if he can develop properly, will be a bit of a John Mitchell-like player.
I hope he is much better than that. Mitchell was never a solid prospect, hopefully Jean can be more than that.

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10-15-2012, 12:36 PM
  #198
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I hope he is much better than that. Mitchell was never a solid prospect, hopefully Jean can be more than that.
Agreed. Also, I always saw Mitchell as a high-energy forechecking wing who could play center. I see Jean as more of a strong on the puck power center who can carry the play - the question is more will he be able to continue to do so if/when he takes it to the next level.

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10-15-2012, 12:58 PM
  #199
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Punxrocknyc19 View Post
I hope he is much better than that. Mitchell was never a solid prospect, hopefully Jean can be more than that.
I believe he was relatively highly regarded in Toronto for a couple of years.

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10-15-2012, 01:02 PM
  #200
Brian Boyle
portnor, pls
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
I believe he was relatively highly regarded in Toronto for a couple of years.
As is any Leaf prospect, ever.

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