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The Armchair GM Thread - Part XXX - Naughty Edition

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10-15-2012, 01:08 AM
  #351
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Originally Posted by VinnyC View Post
Are there any Wolves fans at the arena? wtf
It is the Vancouver Canuck farm team playing the Blackhawk farm team in Chicago, with the lockout and whatnot the arena was probably packed with Blackhawk Fans.

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10-15-2012, 01:08 AM
  #352
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To clarify, Kassian went after Pirri b.c Pirri elbowed(with intent) his buddy Connauton.
this shows that he wants to protect his teammates.or something in that nature

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10-15-2012, 01:35 AM
  #353
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That's why I changed my name from hodgson

I think we should be cautiously optimistic with Kassian, like any power forward he'll take some time to develop. As for Hodgson, I can't see him ever becoming a true first line centre, Buffalo essentially got their Derek Roy...

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10-15-2012, 01:41 AM
  #354
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I was going to make a thread about this at the end of last season but never got around to it. This is as good a place as any to say it.


Gillis traded Hodgson for Kassian. Hodgson was Gillis' first-ever draft pick for Vancouver, the hghly valued center of the future. To give up a piece like Cody, Gillis must have seen something he was looking for - maybe something other people didn't see. Right?

Let's go back to the summer of 2008. Gillis drafted Cody that summer. But there was another move he made - an incredibly insightful move. Gillis extended an offersheet to rugged forward David Backes (which he signed). At the time, people weren't sure what he was doing, perhaps just trying to add an asset to the team. Because that summer, Backes was coming off a 31-point season.

Gillis saw something that other people didn't.

Fastforward to last season. What started me thinking about all this was watching Kassian play. The guy he really reminded me of, watching his massively oversized body skate around the ice (quite well) and hitting anyone in his way, (for stretches of time) was Backes. Then watching the Blues in the playoffs, it just reinforced this idea for me.

Then at the end-of-season presser:

"There were 6 young players on other teams I would've traded him for if any were ever made available. One of them was made available. One of them was made available at the trade deadline. It was Zack. Zack is a commodity that is impossible to get if we develop and make him into the player we think he can be. There's 5 players in the league I think are the equivalent. And you cannot get them in free agency, you cannot get them at the trade deadline."


The bolded is really interesting to me, knowing that's how they feel about Zack. And I would love to know what 5 guys he's talking about.

Thinking about the rare skillset Kassian has - a huge body, a mean streak, nice shot, good vision - I wonder if he thinks they can develop Kassian into a Backes?



2 questions:
Could Gillis see something that other people don't?
And what does this list of 5 look like? My thinking was classic powerforward types who can play first-line - maybe Backes, Lucic, Iginla, Benn, Kane. Any other guesses?

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Old
10-15-2012, 01:46 AM
  #355
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Originally Posted by Socratic Method Man View Post
"There were 6 young players on other teams I would've traded him for if any were ever made available. One of them was made available. One of them was made available at the trade deadline. It was Zack. Zack is a commodity that is impossible to get if we develop and make him into the player we think he can be. There's 5 players in the league I think are the equivalent. And you cannot get them in free agency, you cannot get them at the trade deadline."[/I]

The bolded is really interesting to me, knowing that's how they feel about Zack. And I would love to know what 5 guys he's talking about.

Thinking about the rare skillset Kassian has - a huge body, a mean streak, nice shot, good vision - I wonder if he thinks they can develop Kassian into a Backes?


2 questions:
Could Gillis see something that other people don't?
And what does this list of 5 look like? My thinking was classic powerforward types who can play first-line - maybe Backes, Lucic, Iginla, Benn, Kane. Any other guesses?
I think Gillis meant prospects, because there is no way Kassian belongs in that group.

Off the top of my head I'm thinking Marcus Foligno, and Charlie Coyle when he was a Sharks prospect, too bad Minnesota grabbed him.

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10-15-2012, 02:37 AM
  #356
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Thats another part of the equation with Kassian, hopefully he learned young with some of the mistakes he made, to use controlled agression and not just take runs at guys willy nilly every shift, that will get him in trouble with the refs and lord knows they hate us enough already. If he uses it that way, to target guys who run at ours he will be a huge addition, offense aside.

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10-15-2012, 02:46 AM
  #357
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crazy Kassian View Post
I think Gillis meant prospects, because there is no way Kassian belongs in that group.

Off the top of my head I'm thinking Marcus Foligno, and Charlie Coyle when he was a Sharks prospect, too bad Minnesota grabbed him.
Im pretty sure he was talking about prospects when he said the thing about "6 guys we'd trade him for" But when he says the "5 players" thing, it's right after he talks about Kassian being a rare type of player, if they can develop him right, so it makes me think he's talking about the kind of player he thinks Kassian can become.


It's at 2:45


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10-15-2012, 03:41 AM
  #358
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I'm pretty sure this fits right in with the armchair GM thread.

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Old
10-15-2012, 05:46 AM
  #359
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Originally Posted by Socratic Method Man View Post
Im pretty sure he was talking about prospects when he said the thing about "6 guys we'd trade him for" But when he says the "5 players" thing, it's right after he talks about Kassian being a rare type of player, if they can develop him right, so it makes me think he's talking about the kind of player he thinks Kassian can become.


It's at 2:45

If I remember correctly, it was a list of relatively young power forwards or defensemen. Off the top of my head, Kyle Clifford, Erik Gudbranson, Wayne Simmonds, Brayden Schenn, Brandon Sutter, John Carlson..I think that's it.

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10-15-2012, 06:56 AM
  #360
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Originally Posted by YouCantYandleThis View Post
If I remember correctly, it was a list of relatively young power forwards or defensemen. Off the top of my head, Kyle Clifford, Erik Gudbranson, Wayne Simmonds, Brayden Schenn, Brandon Sutter, John Carlson..I think that's it.


Minus Simmonds and Schenn, those were 4 other Hodgson trade targets.



As to the speculation of the 5 rare players Gillis covets, here's my guess:

1. Lucic
2. Doan
3. Backes
4. Iginla
5. Ladd

All of these guys play like power forwards IMO. Of course, there's the ANA trio that you can lump into #6 there too.

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Old
10-15-2012, 07:42 AM
  #361
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Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
Minus Simmonds and Schenn, those were 4 other Hodgson trade targets.



As to the speculation of the 5 rare players Gillis covets, here's my guess:

1. Lucic
2. Doan
3. Backes
4. Iginla
5. Ladd

All of these guys play like power forwards IMO. Of course, there's the ANA trio that you can lump into #6 there too.
Evander Kane?

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Old
10-15-2012, 08:16 AM
  #362
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Originally Posted by Vankiller Whale View Post
Evander Kane?

I don't put him in the class of the top 5 because each of them consistently use their size to their advantage. Kane does at times, and then doesn't for long stretches. Similarly, Ryan and Getzlaf have the same issue.

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Old
10-15-2012, 12:04 PM
  #363
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Didnt he get rid of Raffi Torres because of hits like the first video?
At first glance it looked like he may have jumped but after watching the replay, he did a great job avoiding the guys head and keeping the contact down. The guy went down so hard, Kassian was launched overtop. Great hit. Pretty good second hit on the guy that came in to fight him too.

The best thing about the highlight is that it's late in the third period and Kassian still has that left in the tank. It's a lot of work fending guys off in the corner like that and he did it for a long while on that shift. Kids obviously in great shape and had a good game. Hopefully he puts 10 more together in the A and then we get the NHL back.

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Old
10-15-2012, 12:10 PM
  #364
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We need a pitbull like Torres in the lineup who can score 15ish goals while laying heavy hits. That's one element that was noticeably lost from last years team.

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Old
10-15-2012, 12:12 PM
  #365
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Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
I don't put him in the class of the top 5 because each of them consistently use their size to their advantage. Kane does at times, and then doesn't for long stretches. Similarly, Ryan and Getzlaf have the same issue.
There is a real art to playing that role. Part tough guy, part goal scorer, part 3rd line grinder... any one of those is tough to pull off never mind all three at the same time. They have to figure out a way to pick their spots without taking nights off. We know what it looks like when they do, Bertuzzi did it for a season and a half, it's fun to watch.

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Old
10-15-2012, 12:12 PM
  #366
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
We need a pitbull like Torres in the lineup who can score 15ish goals while laying heavy hits. That's one element that was noticeably lost from last years team.
I can see Kassian as that, but with more offensive ability. His passing and board work last game is a promising sign.

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Old
10-15-2012, 12:14 PM
  #367
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
We need a pitbull like Torres in the lineup who can score 15ish goals while laying heavy hits. That's one element that was noticeably lost from last years team.
Did you watch the hit on the previous page? Like Raffi... except without the headshot, 5 minute major and 25 game suspension.

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Old
10-15-2012, 12:15 PM
  #368
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Originally Posted by Taelin View Post
I can see Kassian as that, but with more offensive ability. His passing and board work last game is a promising sign.
I really hope so. As wreckless as Torres was, he was effective. Kassian needs to play a lot more physical than what I saw from him last season. I certainly hope he develops better than Torres though.

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Old
10-15-2012, 12:17 PM
  #369
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Originally Posted by y2kcanucks View Post
We need a pitbull like Torres in the lineup who can score 15ish goals while laying heavy hits. That's one element that was noticeably lost from last years team.
proble mwith torres

#1 he was inconsistent in scoring ....most of his 15 goals were scored playing in first 15 gms (mostly with sedins or 2nd line)....important goals when playing with injuries and a strugglingteam..... but still his knock inconsistent scoring.

#2 dont disagree with the grit and hitting but like with Cooke...it became a distraction in key moments....also a rallying cry for "sleeping opponets"

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10-15-2012, 12:17 PM
  #370
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I really hope so. As wreckless as Torres was, he was effective. Kassian needs to play a lot more physical than what I saw from him last season. I certainly hope he develops better than Torres though.
I think he bottoms out as a Torres, without the dumb decisions. His ceiling could be a poor man's Bertuzzi in his prime.

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10-15-2012, 12:22 PM
  #371
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Originally Posted by crazyforhockey View Post
proble mwith torres

#1 he was inconsistent in scoring ....most of his 15 goals were scored playing in first 15 gms (mostly with sedins or 2nd line)....important goals when playing with injuries and a strugglingteam..... but still his knock inconsistent scoring.

#2 dont disagree with the grit and hitting but like with Cooke...it became a distraction in key moments....also a rallying cry for "sleeping opponets"
1) inconsistent scoring is to be expected, but this is a bottom 6 role, not too 6. Torres was also one of our top players in the playoffs, especially the SCF. One of the only players from the SCF who shouldn't be upset by his performance.

2) Cooke is a little ***** who will dish it but won't defend himself. Torres will actually drop the gloves and fight when it's time to fight. If the team is that easily distracted and put off by a controversial hit then our leadership group needs to go.

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10-15-2012, 12:58 PM
  #372
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1) inconsistent scoring is to be expected, but this is a bottom 6 role, not too 6. Torres was also one of our top players in the playoffs, especially the SCF. One of the only players from the SCF who shouldn't be upset by his performance.

2) Cooke is a little ***** who will dish it but won't defend himself. Torres will actually drop the gloves and fight when it's time to fight. If the team is that easily distracted and put off by a controversial hit then our leadership group needs to go.
i'm just going by the rumours, which to my knowledge haven't been verified, about torres and the things he had said around players' wives (in particular, higgins').

if that, and not the eberle/seabrook hits, is what caused him to go, then we can't pin this one on the locker room or leadership group. some guys are loose canons: avery is the best example that comes to mind. no amount of veteran leadership can get through to some people-- again, i'm assuming that this is true of torres, though actually none of us know.

many things can fracture a locker room. some are avoidable, some are manageable, some are not. when wives get involved, historically you have to cut out the disruptive part. there is no repairing that.

all that said, if torres was a solid citizen and the rumours are false, if it wasn't a choice between higgins and torres, and if it really did come down to a second year on a sub-$2 million salary, then i would have liked to have him back too. there is the other factor of icetime, though, which i think torres has pointed to in his decision to sign with phoenix (not that that worked out great for him, but i think he said he had to give himself another shot to establish himself as a top 6 scoring winger like when he scored 25 in edmonton).

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10-15-2012, 01:31 PM
  #373
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Originally Posted by vadim sharifijanov View Post
i'm just going by the rumours, which to my knowledge haven't been verified, about torres and the things he had said around players' wives (in particular, higgins').

if that, and not the eberle/seabrook hits, is what caused him to go, then we can't pin this one on the locker room or leadership group. some guys are loose canons: avery is the best example that comes to mind. no amount of veteran leadership can get through to some people-- again, i'm assuming that this is true of torres, though actually none of us know.

many things can fracture a locker room. some are avoidable, some are manageable, some are not. when wives get involved, historically you have to cut out the disruptive part. there is no repairing that.

all that said, if torres was a solid citizen and the rumours are false, if it wasn't a choice between higgins and torres, and if it really did come down to a second year on a sub-$2 million salary, then i would have liked to have him back too. there is the other factor of icetime, though, which i think torres has pointed to in his decision to sign with phoenix (not that that worked out great for him, but i think he said he had to give himself another shot to establish himself as a top 6 scoring winger like when he scored 25 in edmonton).
I agree with this. If Torres was the type of guy away from the ice as some rumors have suggested then it made sense to move on. I still think we need another player like him though. Maybe Kassian takes that role this year? I would prefer someone more established though, but in the long run it may not matter.

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Old
10-15-2012, 02:12 PM
  #374
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I really hope so. As wreckless as Torres was, he was effective. Kassian needs to play a lot more physical than what I saw from him last season. I certainly hope he develops better than Torres though.
I would expect Kassian to be a lot more physical then his rookie year.... thinking he can't or won't is very silly. From this & past posts it sounds like you have the mentality of some Sabres fans who were expecting him to come in as a rookie & be running around the NHL like he was in the OHL as this huge physical presence.

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Old
10-15-2012, 03:38 PM
  #375
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scurr View Post
Did you watch the hit on the previous page? Like Raffi... except without the headshot, 5 minute major and 25 game suspension.
No I haven't. I'll check it out when I'm on a desktop. Sounds promising though.

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