HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New York Rangers
Notices

2012-13 Lockout Discussion Part III (First 2 weeks of season cancelled)

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
10-13-2012, 10:36 PM
  #926
Jabroni
Moderator
The Corporate Mod
 
Jabroni's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Country: United States
Posts: 6,542
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThatCrazyRangerFan View Post
Bargaining? wtf? Is this wal-mart?
Well, they are trying to sign a Collective Bargaining Agreement...

Jabroni is offline  
Old
10-13-2012, 10:48 PM
  #927
Greg02
Registered User
 
Greg02's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 1,821
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThatCrazyRangerFan View Post
Bargaining? wtf? Is this wal-mart?
You bargain at Wal-Mart? Pretty sure they're fixed prices...

Greg02 is online now  
Old
10-14-2012, 06:17 AM
  #928
RangerBoy
1994 FOREVER
 
RangerBoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: New York
Country: United States
Posts: 31,530
vCash: 500
Quote:
I have, in the past two days, been given directly contradictory information by two always reliable informants. One suggests the union has no intention of making a proposal to the league. The other suggests the PA is working on a revised proposal it will submit within the next few days.

The breakdown in share of revenue is critical, of course. Revenue-sharing is critical, of course. Systemic rights issues are critical, of course. But nothing is more critical toward an agreement than the NHL agreeing to honor all existing contracts that account for approximately $5.2 billion going forward by capping escrow on these deals in their entirety.

That is the first step toward an agreement. That is the first step toward a 2012-13 season. And that is a step that must be taken by the owners. Let Bettman or Daly commit to that as the basis of new proposals the league is beseeching the union to put on the table.
http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/more_...1pFCALdURGuK4N

Both sides have proposals or ideas.

Can't wait for the day when these columns/articles are no longer written. That includes the pro-NHL,pro-NHLPA and everyone in between.

Brooks feels an offer will put pressure on the hawks to make a deal. The more pro-play and more moderate owners will pressure Bettman and the hawks to cut a deal. Do those forces want to a make a deal or do they want to WIN the negotiation? Smoke them out. Bill Daly said last week the NHL doesn't want to WIN the talks. Just make a deal. The NHL will have to back off demanding the players taking immediate cuts and losing 12%-17% of their salaries in escrow.

The PA's revenue sharing plan is better than the NHL's proposed revenue sharing plan. Those teams will receive more money in the PA plan. You better believe they want the $240M plan instead of the $190M plan. The big market teams don't want the $240M plan. The NHL plan is funded by the players through escrow. The NHLPA wants the owners to fund the revenue sharing with no increased escrow or rollbacks. Creates a split between the big market and small market teams.

RangerBoy is offline  
Old
10-14-2012, 07:19 AM
  #929
DutchShamrock
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: New Jersey
Country: United States
Posts: 4,964
vCash: 500
The NHL wants the players to support the weak teams? These are locations that every owner approved, or teams that suck on purpose. Its the players that have to fix that mistake too?

If I'm the PA, I want veto power on team relocation and expansion, Bettman doesn't get to distribute the money... he's enough of an f up.

No way am I funding bad markets without some true partnership powers.

DutchShamrock is offline  
Old
10-14-2012, 07:27 AM
  #930
CH2
Registered User
 
CH2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: NH
Posts: 1,360
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/more_...1pFCALdURGuK4N

Both sides have proposals or ideas.

Can't wait for the day when these columns/articles are no longer written. That includes the pro-NHL,pro-NHLPA and everyone in between.

Brooks feels an offer will put pressure on the hawks to make a deal. The more pro-play and more moderate owners will pressure Bettman and the hawks to cut a deal. Do those forces want to a make a deal or do they want to WIN the negotiation? Smoke them out. Bill Daly said last week the NHL doesn't want to WIN the talks. Just make a deal. The NHL will have to back off demanding the players taking immediate cuts and losing 12%-17% of their salaries in escrow.

The PA's revenue sharing plan is better than the NHL's proposed revenue sharing plan. Those teams will receive more money in the PA plan. You better believe they want the $240M plan instead of the $190M plan. The big market teams don't want the $240M plan. The NHL plan is funded by the players through escrow. The NHLPA wants the owners to fund the revenue sharing with no increased escrow or rollbacks. Creates a split between the big market and small market teams.
I'm confused about "honor all existing contracts". Does that mean the players won't accept any escrow whatsoever? Or does it mean that players want every current contract to be guaranteed (i.e. no reducing bonuses along with escrow)?

CH2 is offline  
Old
10-14-2012, 08:14 AM
  #931
Glen Teflon Sather
Like A Boss
 
Glen Teflon Sather's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Bloomfield, NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 4,849
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Glen Teflon Sather
Can the NHL Network stop airing Pens/Caps HBO 24/7? Even during a lockout I have to see Crosby jammed down my throat.

Glen Teflon Sather is offline  
Old
10-14-2012, 09:19 AM
  #932
Kreider Typical
flex
 
Kreider Typical's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 2,541
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DutchShamrock View Post
The NHL wants the players to support the weak teams? These are locations that every owner approved, or teams that suck on purpose. Its the players that have to fix that mistake too?

If I'm the PA, I want veto power on team relocation and expansion, Bettman doesn't get to distribute the money... he's enough of an f up.

No way am I funding bad markets without some true partnership powers.
i'm sure the players want to support weak teams just as much, but they want the owners to do it.

if cbj were to collapse where would dubi/aa/erixon go? over 20 ROSTER players out of a job for every 1 team that collapses; be it people on that team or people on the other teams that the players of that team replace. then you consider minor-leaguers and a lot of union members are going to be unhappy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4th Line Grinder View Post
Can the NHL Network stop airing Pens/Caps HBO 24/7? Even during a lockout I have to see Crosby jammed down my throat.
you don't hafta watch it

Kreider Typical is offline  
Old
10-14-2012, 10:56 AM
  #933
DutchShamrock
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: New Jersey
Country: United States
Posts: 4,964
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by mooskating View Post
i'm sure the players want to support weak teams just as much, but they want the owners to do it.

if cbj were to collapse where would dubi/aa/erixon go? over 20 ROSTER players out of a job for every 1 team that collapses; be it people on that team or people on the other teams that the players of that team replace. then you consider minor-leaguers and a lot of union members are going to be unhappy.



you don't hafta watch it
That sounds like league logic. Look at Phoenix and Atlanta. The league supports the team or they move. I don't like the league backing teams beyond a few payments, but there is no reason for any owner, player or league to keeping dumping good money into failing markets. Quebec, Toronto, Hamilton, Seattle to name a few are lining up for a team. An NHL team hasn't been contracted in how many decades? 4?

If teams are put in markets without player approval, why are they forced to subsidize them without any say? The mantra of the lockout, expansion, and the schedule debate is it's the owners' money so they can do what they want. But if they want to pull money from a player's paycheck and dump it into a franchise, it's not just the owners' money any more. Lemieux bought the Pens using his deferred comp... how is it different?

DutchShamrock is offline  
Old
10-15-2012, 04:55 AM
  #934
RangerBoy
1994 FOREVER
 
RangerBoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: New York
Country: United States
Posts: 31,530
vCash: 500
Day #30

Quote:
As we prepare for Tuesday's NHL/NHLPA bargaining session...understand that the league is certain to cancel next bundle of games by midweek.
https://twitter.com/JSportsnet/statu...17616473427968

Now the lockout moves into days starting with the number 3.

Quote:
So facing reality, here's the reason this lockout becomes more of an abomination every day. More so than in the other pro sports that have been through labor turmoil, this is a case of a league and its owners not only taking its fan base for granted. From commissioner Gary Bettman on down, the NHL is sticking out its tongue at its fans. And, yes, that's the nice way to put it.
Quote:
Now, the NHL and its owners are saying the system they shut down for a year to get isn't good enough. They're saying they needed to be saved from themselves, that apparently those long-term, front-loaded contracts designed to circumvent the spirit of the system are the product of hallucinogens slipped into their water as they put together the offers. They're saying that a commissioner who made expansion to "new" territories a keystone of his strategy now should be fine with the most powerful owners' refusal to go along with significant and realistic revenue sharing to keep the entire league viable.

I recently wrote that Bettman shouldn't be allowed to be the lightning rod, the sole villain. I feel more strongly about that now. The moderates should be stepping up. They should be arguing that enough is enough. They should be questioning the obvious strategy of making the players sweat, do the math and conclude that they need to give in. That's good "economics," but insulting, galling and even perilous in the bigger picture of a sport that depends on ultraloyalty of its fan base.
http://www.denverpost.com/frei/ci_21...A+Avalanche%29

NHL is a gate driven tickets sold league. More than the other sports. The NHL doesn't have the broadcast revenue like the other sports have.

RangerBoy is offline  
Old
10-15-2012, 05:16 AM
  #935
Ola
Registered User
 
Ola's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Sweden
Country: Sweden
Posts: 17,272
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
NHL is a gate driven tickets sold league. More than the other sports. The NHL doesn't have the broadcast revenue like the other sports have.
Yeah, it just seems like a big risk for me.

Like even if the fan-base is "loyal", its one thing to not expect people to give up and another to expect them to come to the arenas at the same extent and pay huge ticketprices and so forth. Some will undoubtedly still follow the league but do it from the couch. And half of the experience when going to a game, is to experience the atmosphere, and before you know it you got a ugly looking spiral where people don't go to games because there is no atmosphere...

Ola is offline  
Old
10-15-2012, 07:48 AM
  #936
RangerBoy
1994 FOREVER
 
RangerBoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: New York
Country: United States
Posts: 31,530
vCash: 500
There are many other sports in the US besides the NHL. I haven't missed the NHL at all. I love the NHL and the Rangers but I'm sick of the NHL's labor drama. Labor fatigue. The same old garbage every time. Maybe when the Yankees get bounced from the playoffs this week,I will worry about the NHL. The NFL has a game every Thursday night so that's one less night to worry about no hockey. Between MLB playoffs and the NFL three nights per week,NHL hasn't been missed. The NHL will cancel another group of games this week. Probably the games between October 26-November 8. How many games has the NHL missed in all of their lockouts? Its such a joke.

RangerBoy is offline  
Old
10-15-2012, 07:51 AM
  #937
Jabroni
Moderator
The Corporate Mod
 
Jabroni's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Country: United States
Posts: 6,542
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
There are many other sports in the US besides the NHL. I haven't missed the NHL at all. I love the NHL and the Rangers but I'm sick of the NHL's labor drama. Labor fatigue. The same old garbage every time. Maybe when the Yankees get bounced from the playoffs this week,I will worry about the NHL. The NFL has a game every Thursday night so that's one less night to worry about no hockey. Between MLB playoffs and the NFL three nights per week,NHL hasn't been missed. The NHL will cancel another group of games this week. Probably the games between October 26-November 8. How many games has the NHL missed in all of their lockouts? Its such a joke.
The problem is people like me only like hockey, so MLB and NFL don't help the hockey-only fans.

Jabroni is offline  
Old
10-15-2012, 07:55 AM
  #938
nevesis
#30
 
nevesis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: NY
Posts: 8,423
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4th Line Grinder View Post
Can the NHL Network stop airing Pens/Caps HBO 24/7? Even during a lockout I have to see Crosby jammed down my throat.
I haven't turned that channel on since the lockout, and won't until its over.

nevesis is offline  
Old
10-15-2012, 08:51 AM
  #939
StaalWars
TeaOrrCoffey
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: New York City
Posts: 1,167
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
There are many other sports in the US besides the NHL. I haven't missed the NHL at all. I love the NHL and the Rangers but I'm sick of the NHL's labor drama. Labor fatigue. The same old garbage every time. Maybe when the Yankees get bounced from the playoffs this week,I will worry about the NHL. The NFL has a game every Thursday night so that's one less night to worry about no hockey. Between MLB playoffs and the NFL three nights per week,NHL hasn't been missed. The NHL will cancel another group of games this week. Probably the games between October 26-November 8. How many games has the NHL missed in all of their lockouts? Its such a joke.
I'm with you. I'm just completely apathetic at this point. It's also gotten easier to watch the international games and the AHL games so I'm done holding my breath for the NHL. When it's back, it's back.

StaalWars is offline  
Old
10-15-2012, 09:35 AM
  #940
TonyTheGr8
Window shut..for now
 
TonyTheGr8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Morris County, NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 4,073
vCash: 500
I heard a crazy rumor that the Winter Classic will be cancelled THIS WEEK. Don't know if it's true or not, but I do work at a radio station, and this person said he heard it from the sports department. So take that for what it's worth.

Whether its this week or down the line, Winter Classic gets cancelled, this season is lost.

TonyTheGr8 is offline  
Old
10-15-2012, 09:44 AM
  #941
Jabroni
Moderator
The Corporate Mod
 
Jabroni's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Country: United States
Posts: 6,542
vCash: 500
The next cancellation might not be a two week block.

"@DarrenDreger: Expect much bigger block of regular season games will be postponed\cancelled this week. Owners will start using dates to book empty venues."

"@ChrisBottaNHL: NHL went easy with soft first cancellation of games. Had no impact. League will go big this week."

Jabroni is offline  
Old
10-15-2012, 10:00 AM
  #942
Trxjw
Moderator
Bored.
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Land of no calls..
Country: United States
Posts: 16,359
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jabroni1994 View Post
The next cancellation might not be a two week block.

"@DarrenDreger: Expect much bigger block of regular season games will be postponed\cancelled this week. Owners will start using dates to book empty venues."

"@ChrisBottaNHL: NHL went easy with soft first cancellation of games. Had no impact. League will go big this week."
Eh, could be posturing to get the players to submit a new proposal. Schedules for major events take months to plan. The owners are unlikely to get many events to just "swing by" because they have a vacancy. Plus many of these cities have alternative venues. Chances are if a concert or show was coming through a particular city, they've already made arrangements to put it on elsewhere.

Trxjw is offline  
Old
10-15-2012, 10:51 AM
  #943
Riche16
Pessimistic-Realist
 
Riche16's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: FL
Country: United States
Posts: 3,433
vCash: 500
At this point the NHLPA should submit a new proposal. It'll be interesting to see the NHL reaction to it since all they've done is cry about not getting one.

Riche16 is offline  
Old
10-15-2012, 11:39 AM
  #944
SingnBluesOnBroadway
Retired
 
SingnBluesOnBroadway's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: NYC
Country: United States
Posts: 29,779
vCash: 500
Awards:
It's mind boggling that neither side is really aware of the damage being done to their product. I'm a huge hockey fan (obviously since I spend time on a hockey message board). But honestly, I don't find myself really missing it. I'm more put off by the actions of both sides. Hockey is a niche sport — but with passionate fans. If they start losing those fans, then what?

__________________
SingnBluesOnBroadway is offline  
Old
10-15-2012, 11:43 AM
  #945
Jabroni
Moderator
The Corporate Mod
 
Jabroni's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Country: United States
Posts: 6,542
vCash: 500
We have a time and place... no agenda yet.

Quote:
Renaud P Lavoie ‏@RenLavoieRDS
NHL CBA talks to resume tomorrow in Toronto at 11:00. No set agenda yet.
Quote:
Michael Grange ‏@michaelgrange
Commissioner Gary Bettman will be in Toronto for the #NHL CBA meeting on Tuesday
Quote:
Pierre LeBrun ‏@Real_ESPNLeBrun
Plan is for the Big Four to meet Tuesday in Toronto _ Bettman, Daly plus Fehr brothers

Jabroni is offline  
Old
10-15-2012, 11:50 AM
  #946
broadwayblue
Registered User
 
broadwayblue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: NYC
Country: United States
Posts: 15,613
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4th Line Grinder View Post
Can the NHL Network stop airing Pens/Caps HBO 24/7? Even during a lockout I have to see Crosby jammed down my throat.
I hear ya...I'm not asking for it to be the Rangers...but how about some variety? Jeez.

broadwayblue is online now  
Old
10-15-2012, 12:16 PM
  #947
haohmaru
#bdwyblueshirts
 
haohmaru's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Fleming Island, Fl
Country: United States
Posts: 5,328
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
It's mind boggling that neither side is really aware of the damage being done to their product. I'm a huge hockey fan (obviously since I spend time on a hockey message board). But honestly, I don't find myself really missing it. I'm more put off by the actions of both sides. Hockey is a niche sport but with passionate fans. If they start losing those fans, then what?
Exactly how I feel. Furthermore, at this point I'm kind of hoping the season does get cancelled so I don't have read about this bull---- every damned day. Tired of hearing how two sides can't agree how to cut up a 3.3 billion dollar pie that's supported by schleps like us.

haohmaru is offline  
Old
10-15-2012, 12:22 PM
  #948
Bleed Ranger Blue
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 14,704
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
It's mind boggling that neither side is really aware of the damage being done to their product. I'm a huge hockey fan (obviously since I spend time on a hockey message board). But honestly, I don't find myself really missing it. I'm more put off by the actions of both sides. Hockey is a niche sport — but with passionate fans. If they start losing those fans, then what?
When I was young, I used to get pissed off that hockey wasnt more popular. I realized a long time ago, as you said, thats its a niche sport with a relatively small pocket of loyal fans.

My hope is that they alienate enough of those fans this time around so that the current revenues and growth they're anticipating goes off a cliff.

The fact they dont realize they're cutting off their collective nose to spite their face right this second is unbelievable.

Bleed Ranger Blue is offline  
Old
10-15-2012, 12:23 PM
  #949
BlueShirts88
Section 208 Row 15
 
BlueShirts88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Long Island, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 10,333
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to BlueShirts88
Those of you who are on Facebook be sure to "like" this page: http://www.facebook.com/AngryNHLFans.Rangers?fref=ts

__________________
"Matteau! Matteau! Matteau!"~H. Rose
BlueShirts88 is offline  
Old
10-15-2012, 12:32 PM
  #950
SingnBluesOnBroadway
Retired
 
SingnBluesOnBroadway's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: NYC
Country: United States
Posts: 29,779
vCash: 500
Awards:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
When I was young, I used to get pissed off that hockey wasnt more popular. I realized a long time ago, as you said, thats its a niche sport with a relatively small pocket of loyal fans.

My hope is that they alienate enough of those fans this time around so that the current revenues and growth they're anticipating goes off a cliff.

The fact they dont realize they're cutting off their collective nose to spite their face right this second is unbelievable.
That's the point. I know neither side cares about the fans. But both sides should care about their product and their brand. Because those things result in what they ultimately care about: money.

SingnBluesOnBroadway is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:58 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.