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Old
10-15-2012, 08:16 AM
  #51
pepty
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Diane Holmes fought to get the Somerset Street footbridge built which is really handy for anyone in centertown or at ottawa U.

But she seems to spend a lot of time opposing restaurant patios .

She had a long fight with Maclarens but they were at last able to open a patio this summer but with a sign warning that they were in a residential area. Why Maclarens and not the other patios across the street I am not sure, but anyway she didnt need to worry as there was never anyone at the Maclarens patio.

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Old
10-15-2012, 10:44 AM
  #52
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Ottawa has a major issue with change.

There seems to be a preponderance of people who just can't handle major infrastructure additions, or major changes to existing infrastructure, in this city.

Examples include: freakouts over Lansdowne, the casino project, LRT, highway lane increases, even electronic billboards for heaven's sake.

In my opinion, Ottawa is lagging hard behind similar sized cities such as Calgary, Edmonton, and Winnipeg.

All these cities have full length LRT systems, new or at least substantially functional major sporting/entertainment infrastructure, and a thriving business sector.

In my opinion Ottawa is falling behind, despite its higher population; honestly this is a problem with the city's mindset. I have never in my life seen NIMBYism as intense as here in this city.

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10-15-2012, 10:52 AM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EdTheSabresFan View Post
Ottawa has a major issue with change.

There seems to be a preponderance of people who just can't handle major infrastructure additions, or major changes to existing infrastructure, in this city.

Examples include: freakouts over Lansdowne, the casino project, LRT, highway lane increases, even electronic billboards for heaven's sake.

In my opinion, Ottawa is lagging hard behind similar sized cities such as Calgary, Edmonton, and Winnipeg.

All these cities have full length LRT systems, new or at least substantially functional major sporting/entertainment infrastructure, and a thriving business sector.

In my opinion Ottawa is falling behind, despite its higher population; honestly this is a problem with the city's mindset. I have never in my life seen NIMBYism as intense as here in this city.
And you get this from what exactly?

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10-15-2012, 11:10 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by 11Alfredsson View Post
And you get this from what exactly?
Did you not read the rest of his post? He details pretty good why he believes Ottawa has problems with change...

And i agree with him fully, the NIMBYism in Ottawa is ridiculous...

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Old
10-15-2012, 11:14 AM
  #55
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I stop reading after the first sentence all the time.

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Old
10-15-2012, 11:36 AM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EdTheSabresFan View Post
Ottawa has a major issue with change.

There seems to be a preponderance of people who just can't handle major infrastructure additions, or major changes to existing infrastructure, in this city.

Examples include: freakouts over Lansdowne, the casino project, LRT, highway lane increases, even electronic billboards for heaven's sake.

In my opinion, Ottawa is lagging hard behind similar sized cities such as Calgary, Edmonton, and Winnipeg.

All these cities have full length LRT systems, new or at least substantially functional major sporting/entertainment infrastructure, and a thriving business sector.

In my opinion Ottawa is falling behind, despite its higher population; honestly this is a problem with the city's mindset. I have never in my life seen NIMBYism as intense as here in this city.
No we don't. Calgary might have the most expansive LRT system in Canada, but if you live in the city you know the entire transit system is ****'ing terrible.

It's the only city in the world where LRT trains yield to cars (In downtown there are intersections were the trains have to stop at lights to allow cars through). The trains are regularly late (every 5 minutes during rush hour = half an hour a train in real life), and there is an entire quadrant of the city that the LRT doesn't service at all (SE, which is where I live).

Quote:
Originally Posted by BonkTastic View Post
You want to see a city that can't handle major changes to infrastructure? Come visit me in Indonesia. Until then, enjoy the phenomenal luxuries a first-world capital offers and stop taking for granted what many others would kill for (<---hyperbole warning: actual killing may not occur over Canadian infrastructure).

Living in SE Asia is a huge eye-opener. People complain about a lack of LRT in Ottawa? T
As someone that regularly travels to Hong Kong to visit relatives, I respectfully disagree. Transit in SE Asia is awesome.

(Disclaimer: The Public Transit system in Hong Kong is arguably the best and most awesome in the world)

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Old
10-15-2012, 11:36 AM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EdTheSabresFan View Post
Ottawa has a major issue with change.

There seems to be a preponderance of people who just can't handle major infrastructure additions, or major changes to existing infrastructure, in this city.

Examples include: freakouts over Lansdowne, the casino project, LRT, highway lane increases, even electronic billboards for heaven's sake.

In my opinion, Ottawa is lagging hard behind similar sized cities such as Calgary, Edmonton, and Winnipeg.

All these cities have full length LRT systems, new or at least substantially functional major sporting/entertainment infrastructure, and a thriving business sector.

In my opinion Ottawa is falling behind, despite its higher population; honestly this is a problem with the city's mindset. I have never in my life seen NIMBYism as intense as here in this city.
You want to see a city that can't handle major changes to infrastructure? Come visit me in Indonesia. Until then, enjoy the phenomenal luxuries a first-world capital offers and stop taking for granted what many others would kill for (<---hyperbole warning: actual killing may not occur over Canadian infrastructure).

Living in SE Asia is a huge eye-opener. People complain about a lack of LRT in Ottawa? I live in a city of over 3 mil population, and there isn't a single road over two lanes for 80km in any direction (outside of the toll road going to Jakarta). Driving less 5km can take over an hour.


Last edited by BonkTastic: 10-15-2012 at 11:45 AM.
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Old
10-15-2012, 11:42 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by AndrePetersson View Post
As someone that regularly travels to Hong Kong to visit relatives, I respectfully disagree. Transit in SE Asia is awesome.
Respectfully, you're painting SE Asia with too wide a brush. Traveling anywhere in Indonesia is nightmare-inducing, trust me. Laos, Cambodia, Vietnam are all still in the dark ages as far as transportation goes. Malaysia is still just getting on it's feet. And dear god, don't get me started in Papua New Guinea or Timor.

Transit in Singapore, H.K. and most of the non-peninsula mainland is good, however.

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Old
10-15-2012, 11:48 AM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BonkTastic View Post
Respectfully, you're painting SE Asia with too wide a brush. Traveling anywhere in Indonesia is nightmare-inducing, trust me. Laos, Cambodia, Vietnam are all still in the dark ages as far as transportation goes. Malaysia is still just getting on it's feet. And dear god, don't get me started in Papua New Guinea or Timor.

Transit in Singapore, H.K. and most of the non-peninsula mainland is good, however.
I don't think the sarcasm came out well in text. That's why I added the disclaimer.

I think maybe I should have added a: or too.

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Old
10-15-2012, 11:49 AM
  #60
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Diane Deans needs to get tossed ASAP. Same with Holmes and Chernushenko or however you spell it. They're all clowns.
Holmes doesn't bug me so much and Churneshenko is new, so I'll give him a pass... get rid of Deans, Harder and above all else that bloated sack of guts named Maria McRae.

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Old
10-15-2012, 11:59 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Smash88 View Post
Did you not read the rest of his post? He details pretty good why he believes Ottawa has problems with change...

And i agree with him fully, the NIMBYism in Ottawa is ridiculous...
Ok so he stated his opinion but does that prove anything? If they were so scared of change none of the changes he mentioned Ottawa having a problem with would of never occurred.....

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Old
10-15-2012, 12:06 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AndrePetersson View Post
No we don't. Calgary might have the most expansive LRT system in Canada, but if you live in the city you know the entire transit system is ****'ing terrible.

It's the only city in the world where LRT trains yield to cars (In downtown there are intersections were the trains have to stop at lights to allow cars through). The trains are regularly late (every 5 minutes during rush hour = half an hour a train in real life), and there is an entire quadrant of the city that the LRT doesn't service at all (SE, which is where I live).
I think the C-Train service is pretty good, and I live in the SE too btw. Like Bonk says with Indonesia, most people have it a lot worse

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Old
10-15-2012, 12:11 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BonkTastic View Post
Respectfully, you're painting SE Asia with too wide a brush. Traveling anywhere in Indonesia is nightmare-inducing, trust me. Laos, Cambodia, Vietnam are all still in the dark ages as far as transportation goes. Malaysia is still just getting on it's feet. And dear god, don't get me started in Papua New Guinea or Timor.

Transit in Singapore, H.K. and most of the non-peninsula mainland is good, however.
I don't particularly care about third world countries in this discussion. Yes, by all accounts Ottawa is a first world city. Agreed. However, if that was the topic at issue here, we wouldn't be on a hockey forum board.

No I'm comparing Ottawa to SIMILAR first world cities, and in my opinion we're lagging behind.
Yah fine Calgary may have a bad LRT, but it exists. Ottawa has a bad, overpriced bus system, and NO real LRT (except the 6 stop joke O train).

My problem is more so with the city's attitude. For example, the city is considering putting large electronic billboards (a la Times Square or Toronto) which overlook key pieces of city infrastructure like the Jetform Park.

The purpose of these billboards is to show sports related advertising, and city information.

The uproar has been outrageous with people complaining that the billboards are too bright, too distracting, too tall, too short, not 'green' enough, too "big city esque". Honest to god, go to any Ottawa Sun/Citizen/Metro article about this and you'll see the above comments. That is absolutely unbelievable to me.

Can't wait to move to Toronto.

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Old
10-15-2012, 12:39 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EdTheSabresFan View Post
Ottawa has a major issue with change.

There seems to be a preponderance of people who just can't handle major infrastructure additions, or major changes to existing infrastructure, in this city.

Examples include: freakouts over Lansdowne, the casino project, LRT, highway lane increases, even electronic billboards for heaven's sake.

In my opinion, Ottawa is lagging hard behind similar sized cities such as Calgary, Edmonton, and Winnipeg.

All these cities have full length LRT systems, new or at least substantially functional major sporting/entertainment infrastructure, and a thriving business sector.

In my opinion Ottawa is falling behind, despite its higher population; honestly this is a problem with the city's mindset. I have never in my life seen NIMBYism as intense as here in this city.
The NIMBY'ism here is annoying,too many people decide Ottawa is the prefect place to retire, but do you really think Winnipeg is an improvement? I like Winnipeg but I don't think it holds a candle to Ottawa and there is a lot of crime there.

Maybe they have a better LRT system but I cant imagine swapping Ottawa for Edmonton or Winnipeg.

Or Toronto really, where you plan to move according to your last post. It is a big city and there are things to do in big cities that you don't get in smaller cities like Ottawa, but I always found Toronto to be a pretty drab place for a large city.

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Old
10-15-2012, 12:53 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by 11Alfredsson View Post
Ok so he stated his opinion but does that prove anything? If they were so scared of change none of the changes he mentioned Ottawa having a problem with would of never occurred.....
It's the fact that any project has to be delayed countless amount of times before it gets the green light... Everyone knew Landsdowne would eventually win out, it just took 3 years of bickering to get it done...

That's the problem..

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Old
10-15-2012, 12:54 PM
  #66
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ottawa has again and again fallen into the trap of "hey, we have land, lets build a bunch of houses there" without considering how people will get from these houses to their jobs downtown or how the areas surrounding downtown would change in the future once the suburbs were built.

and now we're stuck in the situation many similarly sized north american cities have found themselves in... endless transit problems and zoning issues with the remaining core dwellers who think their regions should keep the suburban feel despite not being surburbia anymore.

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10-15-2012, 01:33 PM
  #67
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ottawa has again and again fallen into the trap of "hey, we have land, lets build a bunch of houses there" without considering how people will get from these houses to their jobs downtown or how the areas surrounding downtown would change in the future once the suburbs were built.

and now we're stuck in the situation many similarly sized north american cities have found themselves in... endless transit problems and zoning issues with the remaining core dwellers who think their regions should keep the suburban feel despite not being surburbia anymore.
This.

And to the posters above. I would rather live in Winnipeg JUST on the basis of having one more pro sports team in town to watch.
Ottawa literally has nothing for sports lovers in the summer. Nothing.

Toronto has more excitement, intensity, innovation, and artistic expression in one downtown block, than Ottawa has in its entire core.

Name one exciting Ottawa landmark other than the Parliament buildings, and the Rideau Canal. Museums not included because in my opinion, the ROM beats them all hands down. (okay maybe War Museum is cool).

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10-15-2012, 01:49 PM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EdTheSabresFan View Post
This.

And to the posters above. I would rather live in Winnipeg JUST on the basis of having one more pro sports team in town to watch.
Ottawa literally has nothing for sports lovers in the summer. Nothing.

Toronto has more excitement, intensity, innovation, and artistic expression in one downtown block, than Ottawa has in its entire core.

Name one exciting Ottawa landmark other than the Parliament buildings, and the Rideau Canal. Museums not included because in my opinion, the ROM beats them all hands down. (okay maybe War Museum is cool).
Well, that should be changing in the next few years.. Finally!

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Old
10-15-2012, 01:59 PM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EdTheSabresFan View Post
Name one exciting Ottawa landmark other than the Parliament buildings, and the Rideau Canal. Museums not included because in my opinion, the ROM beats them all hands down. (okay maybe War Museum is cool).
The convention centre is a step in the right direction. I'm also very pleased with the airport - a great building for us to greet tourists with

There's also the ... ummm ... yeah, I'm done.

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10-15-2012, 02:44 PM
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EdTheSabresFan View Post
I don't particularly care about third world countries in this discussion. Yes, by all accounts Ottawa is a first world city. Agreed. However, if that was the topic at issue here, we wouldn't be on a hockey forum board.

No I'm comparing Ottawa to SIMILAR first world cities, and in my opinion we're lagging behind.
Yah fine Calgary may have a bad LRT, but it exists. Ottawa has a bad, overpriced bus system, and NO real LRT (except the 6 stop joke O train).

My problem is more so with the city's attitude. For example, the city is considering putting large electronic billboards (a la Times Square or Toronto) which overlook key pieces of city infrastructure like the Jetform Park.

The purpose of these billboards is to show sports related advertising, and city information.

The uproar has been outrageous with people complaining that the billboards are too bright, too distracting, too tall, too short, not 'green' enough, too "big city esque". Honest to god, go to any Ottawa Sun/Citizen/Metro article about this and you'll see the above comments. That is absolutely unbelievable to me.

Can't wait to move to Toronto.
Does Ottawa have its’ problems? Yes. Are there residents of the city with massive NIMBY syndrome? Absolutely. But to be perfectly honest, I find your attitude equally as troubling.

It seems to me like you haven’t even taken the time to look around and discover all of the great things Ottawa has to offer in terms of arts, culture, food, recreation, etc.

Want to eat some great food? Head to Town, Union 613, Sidedoor, Oz Kafe or the Black Cat Bistro. These are some of the very best restaurants in the country (terrific chefs, locally grown food, great atmostphere). Looking for music? Bluesfest has turned into one of the best festivals in North America, Jazz Fest brings incredible acts into the city as does Folk Fest, and the 1st Arboretum festival was held in September with some awesome acts. Art? Well, the National Art Gallery of Canada is right at your doorstep, as are tons of local galleries (Gallery SAW, Cube Gallery, Gallery 3, etc). Ottawa even had their very own Nuit Blanche in September. Not to mention that Gatineau Park is right at your doorstep, you have access to over 300 KM of bike paths, you can kayak and canoe into the downtown core on the canal, you can fish on the river and be downtown in 5 minutes…

I hate to break it to you, putting up electronic billboards does nothing, and will do nothing, for this city. And people don’t love Toronto because they have big ass attractions like the CN Tower, Skydome and a bunch of tall bank buildings. Toronto has lots of great things to do, but you’ll have to look for those, just like in Ottawa.

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10-15-2012, 03:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smash88 View Post
It's the fact that any project has to be delayed countless amount of times before it gets the green light... Everyone knew Landsdowne would eventually win out, it just took 3 years of bickering to get it done...

That's the problem..
And this is attributed to being "scared" of change? Or are their financial/resource allocation aspects to it?

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10-15-2012, 05:12 PM
  #72
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Does Ottawa have its’ problems? Yes. Are there residents of the city with massive NIMBY syndrome? Absolutely. But to be perfectly honest, I find your attitude equally as troubling.

It seems to me like you haven’t even taken the time to look around and discover all of the great things Ottawa has to offer in terms of arts, culture, food, recreation, etc.

Want to eat some great food? Head to Town, Union 613, Sidedoor, Oz Kafe or the Black Cat Bistro. These are some of the very best restaurants in the country (terrific chefs, locally grown food, great atmostphere). Looking for music? Bluesfest has turned into one of the best festivals in North America, Jazz Fest brings incredible acts into the city as does Folk Fest, and the 1st Arboretum festival was held in September with some awesome acts. Art? Well, the National Art Gallery of Canada is right at your doorstep, as are tons of local galleries (Gallery SAW, Cube Gallery, Gallery 3, etc). Ottawa even had their very own Nuit Blanche in September. Not to mention that Gatineau Park is right at your doorstep, you have access to over 300 KM of bike paths, you can kayak and canoe into the downtown core on the canal, you can fish on the river and be downtown in 5 minutes…

I hate to break it to you, putting up electronic billboards does nothing, and will do nothing, for this city. And people don’t love Toronto because they have big ass attractions like the CN Tower, Skydome and a bunch of tall bank buildings. Toronto has lots of great things to do, but you’ll have to look for those, just like in Ottawa.
Everything you just mentioned is available literally anywhere else. Plus those places have tons of other stuff on top of that.

I'm pretty confident people living in downtown Toronto live there for the massive sports spectacles, the endless theater/concert options, literally any food experience you could ever want, whatever.

I'm not saying Ottawa should turn into Toronto, I believe it needs to forge its own image; but, at the same time, I'm convinced the situation in Ottawa, whether its financial, geographic, or psychological, is one in which forward progress is slow.

If Winnipeg, Hamilton, and Edmonton can pull money seemingly out of thin air and build massive state of the art football stadiums and hockey arenas over the course of one summer, while it takes Ottawa roughly 7 years to do the same? That's a problem in my mind.

The LRT systems were being expanded in Calgary and Edmonton when Ottawa city council was furiously rejecting any possibility of the same happening here back in 2000. Suddenly Ottawa is now too big (gee go figure) and overcrowded to have 3 million slow busses clogging every possible transit artery (wow really!!!) so NOW and only NOW has it been decided that in oh let's say 5 to 7 years we should maybe have something like those cities have in operation......... shoot.

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10-15-2012, 05:15 PM
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That is of course until the Friends of Lansdowne realize the LRT doesn't service the Glebe....and delay the whole project for 19 additional years....

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10-15-2012, 05:25 PM
  #74
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Ottawa's a great city...

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10-15-2012, 05:51 PM
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EdTheSabresFan View Post
I don't particularly care about third world countries in this discussion. Yes, by all accounts Ottawa is a first world city. Agreed. However, if that was the topic at issue here, we wouldn't be on a hockey forum board.

No I'm comparing Ottawa to SIMILAR first world cities, and in my opinion we're lagging behind.
Yah fine Calgary may have a bad LRT, but it exists. Ottawa has a bad, overpriced bus system, and NO real LRT (except the 6 stop joke O train).

My problem is more so with the city's attitude. For example, the city is considering putting large electronic billboards (a la Times Square or Toronto) which overlook key pieces of city infrastructure like the Jetform Park.

The purpose of these billboards is to show sports related advertising, and city information.

The uproar has been outrageous with people complaining that the billboards are too bright, too distracting, too tall, too short, not 'green' enough, too "big city esque". Honest to god, go to any Ottawa Sun/Citizen/Metro article about this and you'll see the above comments. That is absolutely unbelievable to me.

Can't wait to move to Toronto.
Well, from the sounds of it, it sounds as though you and Toronto would make a perfect couple. You fit that city's mindset perfectly.

Don't let the door hit you on your way out.

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