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Old
10-13-2012, 02:15 PM
  #176
MXD
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Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
irrelevant : Cube has a ONE year contract the year the NHL is in lockout...
Considering they signed Bouillon this summer, it's highly likely that they actually wanted him to have a spot.

If the lockout ends, I can't actually see the team waive Bouillon. I mean, they certainly didn't sign him just so he could take 1M of cap room, right? Waiving Bouillon to keep Weber makes NO SENSE WHATSOEVER, because if they didn't want Bouillon, they just wouldn't have signed him.

If Cube signed a 3 year deal two years ago, and there was only 1 year left on its deal, the theory of waiving Bouillon would make sense. Considering the fact Weber WAS with the team WHEN they signed Bouillon, Weber's status was something that Bergevin had thought about.

On the other hand, I'm just not sure Weber will ever be back in North America... especially if the lockout lasts for the whole season. If he DOES come back, he probably has to beat Diaz and Kaberle, who BOTH have new and/or multi-year deals for a roster spot. In other words, unless the team is REALLY stuck with the cap and has to get rid of Kaberle, Weber WON'T beat them for a spot, and even if he does, he'll probably won't get the spot anyways. Thus, if not waived, Weber ends up being the 8th D-Men / 14th forward; even then, Bergevin will probably have to explain (first, to himself; second, to this coach) why exactly he prefers Weber to St-Denis, a more reliable player whenever puck control is a good thing -- in other words, in EVERY situation. St-Denis is in Hamilton and doesn't have to pass through waivers at this point, and I pretty much suppose St-Denis will spend the whole year in Hamilton, unless an injury occurs. So, with St-Denis in the minors due to technical reasons, Weber is, at best, the 8thD / 14th D on the pecking order. In other words : he's going straight back to Switzerland.

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10-13-2012, 03:04 PM
  #177
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Originally Posted by FlyingKostitsyn View Post
So Yannick Weber is a better PP goal scorer than Shea Weber?

A PP shooter has to get lucky to get some goals from the blue line, they are usually well covered (especially the guys with big accurate shots) and have to shoot trough traffic. Most of the goals that result from PP point shots are deflections or rebounds. Defensemen that actually score a lot of goals usually do so by getting closer to the net and using wrist shots or snapshots rather than blue line slap shots. There are exception (prime Souray, Chara, Shea Weber sometimes...) but YWeber is not one of them.

YWeber has 4 PP assists (we can assume at least a few of them are a result of deflection or rebounds), thats not really impressive. His PP contribution is at the level of what one would expect from a second pairing PP producer. He's like a poor man's MAB. In conclusion Weber is a PP specialist but not a very good one.



There are cheap UFAs available every year and most of them would be more useful than Weber.

In two years, who is Weber going to play ahead of? We have a ton of defensemen prospect who project to be much better than him.
Dont care how, a goal is a goal... lucky ? dont care either as long as he keeps being lucky. Pretty goals dont count for two.


Yes there are, and I dont predict te future but the Habs trading for a PP point shot is something rather common... so lemme guess, we get a UFA for free (no assets given), lose YW for nothing - and then trade assets to get a D who could give us what YW can (PP point shot) ? that would be awesome management dont you think ?


Excellent, and while they round up their game in the AHL, (wich will take more than a year -> realistically) we'll use the Diaz, Weber and co

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10-13-2012, 03:13 PM
  #178
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Originally Posted by MXD View Post
Considering they signed Bouillon this summer, it's highly likely that they actually wanted him to have a spot.

If the lockout ends, I can't actually see the team waive Bouillon. I mean, they certainly didn't sign him just so he could take 1M of cap room, right? Waiving Bouillon to keep Weber makes NO SENSE WHATSOEVER, because if they didn't want Bouillon, they just wouldn't have signed him.

If Cube signed a 3 year deal two years ago, and there was only 1 year left on its deal, the theory of waiving Bouillon would make sense. Considering the fact Weber WAS with the team WHEN they signed Bouillon, Weber's status was something that Bergevin had thought about.

On the other hand, I'm just not sure Weber will ever be back in North America... especially if the lockout lasts for the whole season. If he DOES come back, he probably has to beat Diaz and Kaberle, who BOTH have new and/or multi-year deals for a roster spot. In other words, unless the team is REALLY stuck with the cap and has to get rid of Kaberle, Weber WON'T beat them for a spot, and even if he does, he'll probably won't get the spot anyways. Thus, if not waived, Weber ends up being the 8th D-Men / 14th forward; even then, Bergevin will probably have to explain (first, to himself; second, to this coach) why exactly he prefers Weber to St-Denis, a more reliable player whenever puck control is a good thing -- in other words, in EVERY situation. St-Denis is in Hamilton and doesn't have to pass through waivers at this point, and I pretty much suppose St-Denis will spend the whole year in Hamilton, unless an injury occurs. So, with St-Denis in the minors due to technical reasons, Weber is, at best, the 8thD / 14th D on the pecking order. In other words : he's going straight back to Switzerland.
make that exercise, you'll get the point...

Habs roster with Bouillon on it
Habs roster with Weber on it (replacing Bouillon)

try to think of the difference it makes... like, are we a PO team with Cube and non PO team with Weber ? 4th to 6th in east with Cube, fighting for PO spot with Weber ? etc

now... would you sacrifice a younger player (whoever that is) for that little of a difference ? a difference that wil last at most one season ?

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10-13-2012, 04:06 PM
  #179
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
make that exercise, you'll get the point...

Habs roster with Bouillon on it
Habs roster with Weber on it (replacing Bouillon)

try to think of the difference it makes... like, are we a PO team with Cube and non PO team with Weber ? 4th to 6th in east with Cube, fighting for PO spot with Weber ? etc

now... would you sacrifice a younger player (whoever that is) for that little of a difference ? a difference that wil last at most one season ?
That exercise is compltely irrelevant.

Why would the Habs sign Bouillon if they didn't have a place for him in the lineup?

Besides, I'm pretty certain Bergevin knew the lockout was a possiblity.

To your question, the Habs team is better with Bouillon, and considering how close things are in the NHL, especially in what will be a short season, keeping Weber instead of Bouillon might cost a playoff spot.

I wouldn't sacrifice Gorges for Bouillon, though.

I mean, if the sole reason to keep Weber in the lineup is that he's younger, why not keep Beaulieu instead? At this point, both haven't showed they could be regular in the league...

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10-15-2012, 10:04 AM
  #180
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
Dont care how, a goal is a goal... lucky ? dont care either as long as he keeps being lucky.
In the end, you seem to watch hockey by looking at the stat sheet.

That is one way to enjoy the game. It is not mine.

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10-15-2012, 10:52 AM
  #181
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
Dont care how, a goal is a goal... lucky ? dont care either as long as he keeps being lucky. Pretty goals dont count for two.
He had 4 PP goals. 4.

Just a tiny bit less luck and you wouldn't be using that argument. Weber has 5 goals in 109 NHL games, stop trying to make it seem like its impressive.

He has a big shot but rarely uses it efficiently. He's also not very good at setting up plays and his puck skills are average at best and so is his skating. Not a player I want on my powerplay.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
Yes there are, and I dont predict te future but the Habs trading for a PP point shot is something rather common... so lemme guess, we get a UFA for free (no assets given), lose YW for nothing - and then trade assets to get a D who could give us what YW can (PP point shot) ? that would be awesome management dont you think ?
We already have a right handed point shot, thats PK Subban (who is a lot better than Weber in every aspects of the game and then some). It would be best for one timers if we had a left handed shooter since all our PP quarterbacks (Markov, Kaberle and later Beaulieu) are lefties as well. Even we already have Weber on the team we might have to acquire another PP point shot, as it stands he's not the solution and is probably replacable from inside the organization as soon as next year.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
Excellent, and while they round up their game in the AHL, (wich will take more than a year -> realistically) we'll use the Diaz, Weber and co
So we keep Weber over better but older players so that he can devellop and then ship him away when he starts to play OK so we can devellop new players?

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10-15-2012, 12:37 PM
  #182
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Originally Posted by Joe Cole View Post
In the end, you seem to watch hockey by looking at the stat sheet.

That is one way to enjoy the game. It is not mine.
wrong.

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10-15-2012, 12:49 PM
  #183
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingKostitsyn View Post
He had 4 PP goals. 4.

Just a tiny bit less luck and you wouldn't be using that argument. Weber has 5 goals in 109 NHL games, stop trying to make it seem like its impressive.

He has a big shot but rarely uses it efficiently. He's also not very good at setting up plays and his puck skills are average at best and so is his skating. Not a player I want on my powerplay.



We already have a right handed point shot, thats PK Subban
(who is a lot better than Weber in every aspects of the game and then some). It would be best for one timers if we had a left handed shooter since all our PP quarterbacks (Markov, Kaberle and later Beaulieu) are lefties as well. Even we already have Weber on the team we might have to acquire another PP point shot, as it stands he's not the solution and is probably replacable from inside the organization as soon as next year.



So we keep Weber over better but older players so that he can devellop and then ship him away when he starts to play OK so we can devellop new players?
(not disagreeing in other aspects of the game), but think one has a shot while the other doesnt is kinda odd considering Subban has ONE more PP goal than Weber. In what, about 20 more games or so last season ?

as for 4 goals on the PP not being impressive, lest not forget only 8 D got more than 5 PP goals last season...


why ship away players Habs developped themselves and are (somewhat) useful ? you know every team as at least 6 d men on their roser right ? ... and Markov is getting old, youngsters may not develop as fast as we think - not all of them, Diaz being UFA after his contract, same for Emelin, Kaberle will be gone by the end of his contract, once the kids are ready Gorges will be 30 or so already... so yeah, getting rid of young d men is the right thing to do

keeping the older player, sure if it makes you feel better to finish 9th rather than 11th...

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10-15-2012, 05:06 PM
  #184
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post

why ship away players Habs developped themselves and are (somewhat) useful ? you know every team as at least 6 d men on their roser right ?
What I thought.

Helping the tank is the only reason to keep Weber around.

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10-15-2012, 06:45 PM
  #185
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
(not disagreeing in other aspects of the game), but think one has a shot while the other doesnt is kinda odd considering Subban has ONE more PP goal than Weber. In what, about 20 more games or so last season ?
As I said before, shooting is not just about goals. While Weber scored a few goals, very few of his shots resulted in goals (by that I mean rebounds/deflections). Weber is not a PP quarterback and he's not a particularily reliable shooter either, he had no chemistry on the PP.

Subban had the lead for defensemen PP goals defensemen in the entire league in 2010-11 btw. Make of that what you will.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ECWHSWI View Post
why ship away players Habs developped themselves and are (somewhat) useful ? you know every team as at least 6 d men on their roser right ? ... and Markov is getting old, youngsters may not develop as fast as we think - not all of them, Diaz being UFA after his contract, same for Emelin, Kaberle will be gone by the end of his contract, once the kids are ready Gorges will be 30 or so already... so yeah, getting rid of young d men is the right thing to do

keeping the older player, sure if it makes you feel better to finish 9th rather than 11th...
The problem is Weber has not shown any real signs of improvement. Trading good young players is bad, trading average young players is completely normal.

We're not talking about dealing away McDonagh here. Weber is probably on par with Chipchura, a prospect that didn't impress that we don't really miss.

Btw in today's league 9th position is often a tiebreaker away from the playoffs. I want a competitive team ASAP and good players on the ice.

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10-16-2012, 12:43 AM
  #186
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingKostitsyn View Post
As I said before, shooting is not just about goals. While Weber scored a few goals, very few of his shots resulted in goals (by that I mean rebounds/deflections). Weber is not a PP quarterback and he's not a particularily reliable shooter either, he had no chemistry on the PP.

Subban had the lead for defensemen PP goals defensemen in the entire league in 2010-11 btw. Make of that what you will.



The problem is Weber has not shown any real signs of improvement. Trading good young players is bad, trading average young players is completely normal.

We're not talking about dealing away McDonagh here. Weber is probably on par with Chipchura, a prospect that didn't impress that we don't really miss.

Btw in today's league 9th position is often a tiebreaker away from the playoffs. I want a competitive team ASAP and good players on the ice.
4th liners and bottom pairing D are just that, average. And every team have those players.


we're so not missing those type of players (Chip), we signed Enqvist in hopes he'll develop into a decent 4th line C. and after losing T. Pyatt we traded away asset to acquire Nokelainen... and the only reason we did is cause we had no Chipchura type of players of our own...

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11-20-2012, 09:57 AM
  #187
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A month later, Weber is scoring less than Bezina, -5 on a team full of pluses (Fritsche +15, Bezina +14). From the numbers, pretty underwhelming. Has anyone caught any of his games?

One could make the case that for players like Pacioretty and Kane, playing overseas is a pretty meaningless tuneup. But for Weber, who's career may be at a crossroads, his performance could inform what the Habs decide to do with him.

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11-20-2012, 10:08 AM
  #188
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Originally Posted by Roulin View Post
A month later, Weber is scoring less than Bezina, -5 on a team full of pluses (Fritsche +15, Bezina +14). From the numbers, pretty underwhelming. Has anyone caught any of his games?

One could make the case that for players like Pacioretty and Kane, playing overseas is a pretty meaningless tuneup. But for Weber, who's career may be at a crossroads, his performance could inform what the Habs decide to do with him.
If helps, here http://www.bluewin.ch/de/index.php/1...=134546&page=1 you can see highlights of all NLA matches. Just pick the game of Genneve Servette

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11-20-2012, 10:35 AM
  #189
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Originally Posted by CroHabitant View Post
If helps, here http://www.bluewin.ch/de/index.php/1...=134546&page=1 you can see highlights of all NLA matches. Just pick the game of Genneve Servette
Thanks! Not sure if it'll help evaluate Weber, but I will enjoy the highlights

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