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Bertuzzi Lock Out....;-(

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Old
10-14-2012, 11:10 PM
  #1
tvos*
 
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Bertuzzi Lock Out....;-(

Friends,

My favorite NHL player in the whole wide world of hockey can't play in Sweden because the IHF gave him the thumbs down. Because of his lawsuit against moore, he can't play which sucks!!

So make me understand this! - Bertuzzi can play in the NHL for the last 4-5 years and yet European IHF won't allow him.

What gives?

tvos

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10-14-2012, 11:11 PM
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Why is Bertuzzi your favorite player?

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10-14-2012, 11:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tvos View Post
Friends,

My favorite NHL player in the whole wide world of hockey can't play in Sweden because the IHF gave him the thumbs down. Because of his lawsuit against moore, he can't play which sucks!!

tvos
It's Moore's lawsuit against Bertuzzi.

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10-14-2012, 11:17 PM
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I never really liked one particular NHL player until Bertuzzi came along as a Detroit Red Wing. I took notice of the incredible skill, performance shoot-outs, his antics, chewing bubble gum during a hockey game and yelling at players.. Whats not to like about Bert?

He is just such a incredible player that I admire his performance, showmen ship and very comical player..... Enough said..

Do I agree what he did with Moore? No, not at all - that was terrible! I am sure there is not a day in Bertuzzi's life that goes by that he wish that never happened, but it did. I am sure he regrets that. Again, I don't condone that behavior in NHL, but he deserves a second change and the red wings gave it to him which he has proved..

Let him play over-seas!

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10-14-2012, 11:19 PM
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Hopefully they appeal the IHF's decision (or whoever made it), and let him in. And then he never comes back.

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10-14-2012, 11:20 PM
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nah, that won't happen.. he is a older player and needs the training and performance to keep up.... as a athlete you have to keep the machine rolling and can't sit by the side lines and let time pass you by...

he has to play... I do want to see Bertuzzi play for Jokerit!!!

go jokers!!.....

tvos

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Old
10-15-2012, 12:38 AM
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While avoiding the whole Bertuzzi incident because that rarely goes to a good place, I find this decision interesting.

It has to be the Canadian courts stopping him from getting a visa and not the IIHF. You see the reason I can say that is that he played in the Olympic Games in 2006 for team Canada (not a super popular decision at the time by Gretzky) an IIHF event right after (2 years) the Moore incident. I would think Sweden would send him back or allow his bank accounts frozen. I am no legal expert, but say a court orders him to pay out 30 million without Vancouver's assitance. If he were playing and living in Switzerland he could just never come back in order to avoid the payment. Once again I am not sure on this, but he has played in an IIHF event since the event so it has to go a little deeper than what the initial post is suggesting.

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10-15-2012, 04:04 AM
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Is there a reason he can't play for Grand Rapids in case of not being allowed to play in Europe? I don't mind him having to clear waivers when, and if the season starts...

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10-15-2012, 10:00 AM
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It's not the IIHF that prevents him from playing in Sweden, it's his lawyer. He had everything prepared to go with Ericsson and play for Vita Hästen, but his lawyer gave him the thumbs down because of the lawsuit. It was during the last lockout the IIHF didn't allow him to play for Södertälje because the NHL had suspended him.

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10-15-2012, 11:07 AM
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so let me get this straight:

Bertuzzi plays in the NHL for almost 10 years after the Moore incident, represents the IHHF while playing in the NHL, yet some politicians in Canada, are with-holding him bc of the Moore Incident...PSSHSHHSHSHSH

For all the CANADIAN politicians/lawmakers out there who may read this:

If you have been convicted of a DUI, (some are/and have), served your time, paid restitution and are living w out anymore DUI issues, then today, right now, give me your keys and your not allowed to drive anymore. You are a hazard to ME and my family. Bertuzzi on the other hand, paid his dues, was mocked publicly for over 3+ years, and is NOT a threat so my society, like you driving drunk. So, if you want to stop bertuzzi bc of his past, then give me your keys the next time you drive, bc your a bigger threat..

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10-15-2012, 11:59 AM
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yah, it doesn't make sense at all. Aside from what happened with Moore it was 10 some years ago and obviously Moore is trying to milk everything from Bertuzzi, Crawford, NHL for this... I sympathize for Moore and what happened - when is it enough?

so you don't let Bertuzzi play and Moore still doesn't get money out of him because he can't work.. great system!

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10-15-2012, 02:14 PM
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Originally Posted by tvos View Post
yah, it doesn't make sense at all. Aside from what happened with Moore it was 10 some years ago and obviously Moore is trying to milk everything from Bertuzzi, Crawford, NHL for this... I sympathize for Moore and what happened - when is it enough?

so you don't let Bertuzzi play and Moore still doesn't get money out of him because he can't work.. great system!

tvos
Bertuzzi has millions. As for Moore, he can't make a living playing hockey anymore. That's a minimum $550k based on the last CBA, and seven seasons have been played. So $3.5m (minimum) there. Probably more; Moore was a 25 year-old rookie playing on Colorado's third line and PK unit while they were still a contender. He's 34 now. Doctors have determined that the injuries he suffered may have caused "serious damage to his post-playing career."

Bertuzzi literally cost Steve Moore (t least) several million dollars with what he did. Moore's lawsuit is asking for CAD$15m in loss of income plus approximately CAD$4.5m in damage. Based on 2004 exchange, this is equivalent to USD$11,977,455 for lost income and USD$3,593,236.50 for damages. So assuming he were to not play past today, that would be an average salary of about $1.7m per season.

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Is there a reason he can't play for Grand Rapids in case of not being allowed to play in Europe? I don't mind him having to clear waivers when, and if the season starts...
I am in favor of this. Hope he gets claimed.

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10-15-2012, 02:19 PM
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Unfortunately for that move to be made, he would have to have been sent down before the lockout. At least that is my understanding. The Wings really could have done this, of course his 2.1 million is a big salary to have down there and he would be claimed on re-entry even if he threatened to retire, which is why I think he would clear waivers in the first place. At 1 million it is not a huge gamble and the Wings would still be stuck with 1 mllion on their cap if he was claimed by the other team and retired rather than play for them.

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10-15-2012, 03:28 PM
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Moore is a piss weasel who doesnt deserve anything beyond the comfortable compensation of a few hundred k/year he probably would have gotten from the NHLPA.

He was medically cleared to play in 2006 and was offered a tryout contract from the Ducks in 2007 which he declined. His lawyer advised him to retire and go for a big payday instead of coming back from injury and probably being an AHL/NHL bubble guy for the rest of his career.

Bert suckered a guy ... countless times guys have been suckered in the NHL and by RedWings (Mcarty, Dino Cicerelli, etc) too - the result was a fluke and probably compounded by the 3 teammates dogpiling Bert and riding Moore like a sled.

End of the day when Moore looks in the mirror he only has himself to blame. Naslund was the best player in the NHL that year and retribution was coming his way ... fighting a young Matt Cooke after Cooke tossed off his own bucket and Moore didnt doesnt count. I sincerely hope he gets jack **** from this.

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10-15-2012, 03:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jroc86 View Post
Moore is a piss weasel who doesnt deserve anything beyond the comfortable compensation of a few hundred k/year he probably would have gotten from the NHLPA.

He was medically cleared to play in 2006 and was offered a tryout contract from the Ducks in 2007 which he declined. His lawyer advised him to retire and go for a big payday instead of coming back from injury and probably being an AHL/NHL bubble guy for the rest of his career.

Bert suckered a guy ... countless times guys have been suckered in the NHL and by RedWings (Mcarty, Dino Cicerelli, etc) too - the result was a fluke and probably compounded by the 3 teammates dogpiling Bert and riding Moore like a sled.

End of the day when Moore looks in the mirror he only has himself to blame. Naslund was the best player in the NHL that year and retribution was coming his way ... fighting a young Matt Cooke after Cooke tossed off his own bucket and Moore didnt doesnt count. I sincerely hope he gets jack **** from this.
I think you're in for a big surprise. I expect a sizable judgement, with the Vancouver Canucks on the hook for paying the bulk of it. I have never seen he was medically cleared to play, his lawyer argues the opposite from reports I have read. The Ducks did offer him a try-out but I think doctors told him that would be a bad decision.

Like it or not Moore has also argued because of lingering issues he has not been able to maximize his Harvard degree. Yeah a lot of people forget that is where he graduated. What do you think the potential earnings of that degree are? Really the only part of the lawsuit that completely bothers me is his parents asking for millions. It doesn't surprise me that Moore has asked for a lot and that fee has continued to drive upward with legal costs now running for almost a decade.

He broke hockey code and I have thought that since day one. But I also think he is going to get a pretty huge payday when this thing finally happens.

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10-15-2012, 04:09 PM
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Unfortunately for that move to be made, he would have to have been sent down before the lockout. At least that is my understanding. The Wings really could have done this, of course his 2.1 million is a big salary to have down there and he would be claimed on re-entry even if he threatened to retire, which is why I think he would clear waivers in the first place. At 1 million it is not a huge gamble and the Wings would still be stuck with 1 mllion on their cap if he was claimed by the other team and retired rather than play for them.
Can he sign with GR idependently?

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10-15-2012, 04:32 PM
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I think you're in for a big surprise. I expect a sizable judgement, with the Vancouver Canucks on the hook for paying the bulk of it. I have never seen he was medically cleared to play, his lawyer argues the opposite from reports I have read. The Ducks did offer him a try-out but I think doctors told him that would be a bad decision.

Like it or not Moore has also argued because of lingering issues he has not been able to maximize his Harvard degree. Yeah a lot of people forget that is where he graduated. What do you think the potential earnings of that degree are? Really the only part of the lawsuit that completely bothers me is his parents asking for millions. It doesn't surprise me that Moore has asked for a lot and that fee has continued to drive upward with legal costs now running for almost a decade.

He broke hockey code and I have thought that since day one. But I also think he is going to get a pretty huge payday when this thing finally happens.
Moore is a weasel. He deserves nothing, IMO

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10-15-2012, 04:34 PM
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Can he sign with GR idependently?
No he was not on the clear day roster last season.

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10-15-2012, 04:36 PM
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Moore is a weasel. He deserves nothing, IMO
I don't know what he deserves to be honest. I do think he is going to get quite a bit more than a lot of people think. Bertuzzi and the Canucks are over a barrel as far as I understand it because Bertuzzi pled guilty in the criminal case in the first place.

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10-15-2012, 04:42 PM
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Yah, we could debate this all day about Bertuzzi / Moore. Problem is that Moore and what he pulled before the Bertuzzi incident he was able to get away with his nasty playing and
what he did to the other players.

Either way you look at it no one is going to come out even. Bertuzzi will still play and hope he retires with Detroit (like in 5 years) and Moore will still be whining for more money. Even after this payout he receives.

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10-15-2012, 05:34 PM
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Originally Posted by RedWings19405 View Post
I don't know what he deserves to be honest. I do think he is going to get quite a bit more than a lot of people think. Bertuzzi and the Canucks are over a barrel as far as I understand it because Bertuzzi pled guilty in the criminal case in the first place.
Fortunately, there's an entire legal system pieced together to handle this and civil cases, despite criticism to the contrary, are essential to protecting individuals. Like most of these cases, the actual awarded amount will be reasonable to reflect lost earnings and expenses.

People love to get opinionated on these "frivolous" civil suits, which they rarely know much, if anything, about. And surprise, the plaintiff is typically demonized as a money grabber, which has lead to a string of tort reform in the United States which has crippled an individuals ability to seek legal action. Most of these "reforms" and slandering pushed by huge corporations in heavily conservative states that buy into the rhetoric.

So hey, while playing armchair GM is fun and games, when people play armchair lawyer... well aside from the ridiculous laws politicians are able to pass when people buy into the garbage, it creates a stupid Todd Bertuzzi thread.

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10-15-2012, 06:14 PM
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So hey, while playing armchair GM is fun and games, when people play armchair lawyer... well aside from the ridiculous laws politicians are able to pass when people buy into the garbage, it creates a stupid Todd Bertuzzi thread.
what part did you not understand of my first post? it was because I asked "Why" and not creating a silly Bertuzzi thread. It was directed to asking the question "Why" so I could better understand, hence everyone jumps on the band wagon with the whole Moore/Bertuzzi drama...

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10-15-2012, 07:37 PM
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Originally Posted by jroc86 View Post
Moore is a piss weasel who doesnt deserve anything beyond the comfortable compensation of a few hundred k/year he probably would have gotten from the NHLPA.

He was medically cleared to play in 2006
False.

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and was offered a tryout contract from the Ducks in 2007 which he declined.
Partially true. In August 2005 (not 2007) Burke offered Moore a two-way contract (not a tryout) worth $475k/$75k. Moore declined because he was not cleared to play. Moore officially abandond any comeback attempt in November of 2005 when it became clear that returning to playing hockey was not something he would be medically cleared for.

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His lawyer advised him to retire and go for a big payday instead of coming back from injury and probably being an AHL/NHL bubble guy for the rest of his career.
False. He was a 25 year-old third liner with upside. His DOCTORS advised him to retire.

Quote:
Bert suckered a guy ... countless times guys have been suckered in the NHL and by RedWings (Mcarty, Dino Cicerelli, etc) too - the result was a fluke and probably compounded by the 3 teammates dogpiling Bert and riding Moore like a sled.
The injury was caused by Moore being cold-cocked, and then Bert grabbing Moore's head and driving him face-first into the ice. Furthermore, any direct results of Bertuzzi's actions are still Bertuzzi's responsibility. You can't throw a ball through a window, have it then bounce off a wall and break a table, and be free of blame.

Quote:
End of the day when Moore looks in the mirror he only has himself to blame. Naslund was the best player in the NHL that year and retribution was coming his way ... fighting a young Matt Cooke after Cooke tossed off his own bucket and Moore didnt doesnt count. I sincerely hope he gets jack **** from this.
Moore's "hit" on Naslund was a race for the puck.

Moore tipped the puck away from Naslund, who had gone down on his knee to try and get it. Naslund tried to avoid Moore, but he was sitting there with his knee sticking out and a guy coming at a 90 degree angle. I always liked Naslund, but that was his own fault and not Moore's. Putting yourself in the position to be injured, and then getting injured because of it, is not the other guy's fault. It's the "head-down" argument.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...YYNjWnro#t=25s

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10-15-2012, 07:52 PM
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I am in favor of this. Hope he gets claimed.
Even if he gets claimed, Hudler isn't coming back.

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10-15-2012, 09:16 PM
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Even if he gets claimed, Hudler isn't coming back.
who care's about Huds... this is about Bertuzzi...;-)

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