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Old
10-15-2012, 09:19 PM
  #26
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Originally Posted by tvos View Post
who care's about Huds... this is about Bertuzzi...;-)
You're new here as a rookie user, you will find that nobody not even Hudler's own mother cares about him more than Eva.

But his post was very accurate in this thread, just explaining the joke for you.

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10-15-2012, 09:25 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by RedWings19405 View Post
You're new here as a rookie user, you will find that nobody not even Hudler's own mother cares about him more than Eva.

But his post was very accurate in this thread, just explaining the joke for you.
oh I know....;-) all is good,. had a chuckle there.. Huds will be missed in Detroit even if the season begins... when ever that will be...

tvos

ps... 4k posts huh... rookie user.. least I can save my carpal tunnel.. haha

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10-15-2012, 09:54 PM
  #28
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oh I know....;-) all is good,. had a chuckle there.. Huds will be missed in Detroit even if the season begins... when ever that will be...

tvos

ps... 4k posts huh... rookie user.. least I can save my carpal tunnel.. haha
Wasn't claiming to be the oldest guy on the block. But if you were new and had not been watching for a while the comment might not add up. Post a lot but Krishna is going to be the one with carpel tunnel on this site if it can lead to that. Have no idea how he keeps up that pace.

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10-15-2012, 09:59 PM
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Originally Posted by RedWings19405 View Post
Wasn't claiming to be the oldest guy on the block. But if you were new and had not been watching for a while the comment might not add up. Post a lot but Krishna is going to be the one with carpel tunnel on this site if it can lead to that. Have no idea how he keeps up that pace.
I just came across HF boards a few weeks ago. Only reason was that I searched for Jokerit streams, Finland and cable provider then arrived here. I have been watching and following Jokerit for some time now.. But saw the other sub forums.. This place is like the holy grail of hockey on-line forums! very cool

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10-15-2012, 10:33 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by tvos View Post
I never really liked one particular NHL player until Bertuzzi came along as a Detroit Red Wing. I took notice of the incredible skill, performance shoot-outs, his antics, chewing bubble gum during a hockey game and yelling at players.. Whats not to like about Bert?

He is just such a incredible player that I admire his performance, showmen ship and very comical player..... Enough said..

Do I agree what he did with Moore? No, not at all - that was terrible! I am sure there is not a day in Bertuzzi's life that goes by that he wish that never happened, but it did. I am sure he regrets that. Again, I don't condone that behavior in NHL, but he deserves a second change and the red wings gave it to him which he has proved..

Let him play over-seas!

tvos
Well the fact that he screws up almost every play he's involved in and couldn't manage to put up 40 points playing with one of the best players in the league doesn't really bring a smile to my face. The only reason I even somewhat like him is his shootout ability.

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10-16-2012, 01:40 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by tvos View Post
what part did you not understand of my first post? it was because I asked "Why" and not creating a silly Bertuzzi thread. It was directed to asking the question "Why" so I could better understand, hence everyone jumps on the band wagon with the whole Moore/Bertuzzi drama...

tvos
You said, and I quote, "Moore will still be whining for more money."

I addressed this view in my post. If you didn't want that cluttering up the thread, you probably shouldn't call the plaintiff in the civil suit a whiner.

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10-16-2012, 02:45 PM
  #32
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Fortunately, there's an entire legal system pieced together to handle this and civil cases, despite criticism to the contrary, are essential to protecting individuals. Like most of these cases, the actual awarded amount will be reasonable to reflect lost earnings and expenses.

People love to get opinionated on these "frivolous" civil suits, which they rarely know much, if anything, about. And surprise, the plaintiff is typically demonized as a money grabber, which has lead to a string of tort reform in the United States which has crippled an individuals ability to seek legal action. Most of these "reforms" and slandering pushed by huge corporations in heavily conservative states that buy into the rhetoric.

So hey, while playing armchair GM is fun and games, when people play armchair lawyer... well aside from the ridiculous laws politicians are able to pass when people buy into the garbage, it creates a stupid Todd Bertuzzi thread.
Sounds like someone we know spilled hot coffee on their private parts.

I agree with your point about demonizing people who bring about lawsuits. It's amazing to me that people argue against their chance to get justice in court.
But, on the other hand, there are lots of money grubbers out there looking for a payday.
It's also getting hard to trust a justice system that is, too often, bought and paid for

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10-16-2012, 05:02 PM
  #33
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Sounds like someone we know spilled hot coffee on their private parts.

I agree with your point about demonizing people who bring about lawsuits. It's amazing to me that people argue against their chance to get justice in court.
But, on the other hand, there are lots of money grubbers out there looking for a payday.
It's also getting hard to trust a justice system that is, too often, bought and paid for
Well man, we're in total agreement.

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10-18-2012, 07:49 PM
  #34
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Well man, we're in total agreement.
Best. avatar. ever.

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10-23-2012, 04:29 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by eva unit zero View Post
False.



Partially true. In August 2005 (not 2007) Burke offered Moore a two-way contract (not a tryout) worth $475k/$75k. Moore declined because he was not cleared to play. Moore officially abandond any comeback attempt in November of 2005 when it became clear that returning to playing hockey was not something he would be medically cleared for.



False. He was a 25 year-old third liner with upside. His DOCTORS advised him to retire.



The injury was caused by Moore being cold-cocked, and then Bert grabbing Moore's head and driving him face-first into the ice. Furthermore, any direct results of Bertuzzi's actions are still Bertuzzi's responsibility. You can't throw a ball through a window, have it then bounce off a wall and break a table, and be free of blame.



Moore's "hit" on Naslund was a race for the puck.

Moore tipped the puck away from Naslund, who had gone down on his knee to try and get it. Naslund tried to avoid Moore, but he was sitting there with his knee sticking out and a guy coming at a 90 degree angle. I always liked Naslund, but that was his own fault and not Moore's. Putting yourself in the position to be injured, and then getting injured because of it, is not the other guy's fault. It's the "head-down" argument.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...YYNjWnro#t=25s
Moore's "hit" on Naslund was a race for the puck.
complete and utterly BS, was a cheapshot and he got cheapshoted back.
career for career. Dont give a damn about moore theese days. live by the sword die by the sword (disclaimer dont really wish him to be "injured" (read faking it) for life, just hate to see cheapshot artist going and cry wolf when it happends to him). Hell some of you would probally cry if cooke got an elbow to his head and ended his career.

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10-23-2012, 04:47 AM
  #36
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Wasn't claiming to be the oldest guy on the block. But if you were new and had not been watching for a while the comment might not add up. Post a lot but Krishna is going to be the one with carpel tunnel on this site if it can lead to that. Have no idea how he keeps up that pace.
Krishna is cool.

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10-23-2012, 09:16 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by RedWings19405 View Post
Wasn't claiming to be the oldest guy on the block. But if you were new and had not been watching for a while the comment might not add up. Post a lot but Krishna is going to be the one with carpel tunnel on this site if it can lead to that. Have no idea how he keeps up that pace.


It's really not that hard when you are a sponsor plus have a lot of free time.. I generally don't sleep more than 4 hours a night and have a school schedule like :

8-10 tuesday
8-10 wednesday and 6-10 pm wednesday
8-10 thursday

edit : plus, posting on multiple forums makes it pretty easy

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10-23-2012, 09:17 AM
  #38
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Krishna is cool.
I agree.

Was recently picked as Poster of the Year and yesterday was mentioned as the Cutest boy on hfboards.

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Old
10-23-2012, 09:31 AM
  #39
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the way I see it is like this...

no one won period!

the whole thread was about Bertuzzi and him not being able to play, but can in the NHL then everyone jumps on the bandwagon....

I don't condone what Bertuzzi did at all and he has paid dearly for his error and stupidity. He was completely wrong for taking revenge on Moore period! Now, what Moore is seeking - we are not in his shoe's, if he is faking or not on this lawsuit brought but time will tell on this...

Again, I just like to see Bertuzzi play the game because he is a great player and comical..

Now, if the NHL/NHLPA could get off their high money greed and give us a season, that would be better than talking about this...

tvos

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10-23-2012, 06:08 PM
  #40
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Moore's "hit" on Naslund was a race for the puck.
complete and utterly BS, was a cheapshot and he got cheapshoted back.
Not all collisions that end in injury are cheap shots. The biggest thing to notice about the Moore "hit" is this:

Moore knocked the puck away from a prone, lunging Naslund. Moore was coasting on his skates rather than striding, and lifted his left skate off the ice and tucked his leg behind his right in an attempt to AVOID Naslund. If he were intending to hit him, that skate stays firmly planted.

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career for career. Dont give a damn about moore theese days. live by the sword die by the sword (disclaimer dont really wish him to be "injured" (read faking it) for life, just hate to see cheapshot artist going and cry wolf when it happends to him). Hell some of you would probally cry if cooke got an elbow to his head and ended his career.
Yeah, he's faking it. A skilled, gritty third liner who was just coming into his prime and probably would have been a tweener top-sixer has been "faking it" to get less money than he likely would have while also not playing hockey.

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10-23-2012, 07:34 PM
  #41
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I agree.

Was recently picked as Poster of the Year and yesterday was mentioned as the Cutest boy on hfboards.
Can't really disagree with either of those statements.

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10-23-2012, 08:47 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by eva unit zero View Post
Not all collisions that end in injury are cheap shots. The biggest thing to notice about the Moore "hit" is this:

Moore knocked the puck away from a prone, lunging Naslund. Moore was coasting on his skates rather than striding, and lifted his left skate off the ice and tucked his leg behind his right in an attempt to AVOID Naslund. If he were intending to hit him, that skate stays firmly planted.



Yeah, he's faking it. A skilled, gritty third liner who was just coming into his prime and probably would have been a tweener top-sixer has been "faking it" to get less money than he likely would have while also not playing hockey.
Most hockey fans blind hate for the Canucks might be clouding your judgement but that was a dirty hit according to every hockey mind I've ever discussed this with now or 8 years ago. Naslund and Sakic were neck and neck for the scoring lead that year - with Bert in 3rd I believe. He made deliberate contact to the head of a downed opponent ... who I may add was one of the classiest and respectful guys one and off the ice of that era. Naslund was NEVER the same after that concussion and any Canuck fan will attest to that.

If someone did that to Lidstrom or Datsyuk right before the playoffs we would want their head on a stick. The entire city of Vancouver was frothing at the mouth to see Moore take a beating for that. The Wings have always been my team but up until the end of the "West Coast Express" era I also secondarily rooted for the Canucks as we had a pretty common enemy at that time in Colorado and I didnt hate their franchise players (Linden, Bure, Bertuzzi, Jovo, Naslund etc). Moore didn't deserve a broken neck - nobody does. What he needed to do was drop the mitts with someone that would presumably beat him in a fight to man (as Jovo and Bert challenged him multiple times) but he didn't.

Who's the real bad-guy here? Im going to say that [mod] Bob Hartley ... a marked man shouldnt have been on the ice during the closing seconds of a 7-2 game.


Last edited by Fugu: 10-24-2012 at 02:03 AM. Reason: ...
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10-23-2012, 10:56 PM
  #43
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Most hockey fans blind hate for the Canucks might be clouding your judgement but that was a dirty hit according to every hockey mind I've ever discussed this with now or 8 years ago. Naslund and Sakic were neck and neck for the scoring lead that year - with Bert in 3rd I believe. He made deliberate contact to the head of a downed opponent
Bert and Sakic being top scorers doesn't matter, unless you're suggesting that Sakic put out a hit on Naslund. Moore tipped the puck away from Naslund - one of the league's elite scorers - and it ended up with a collision because of the position Naslund had put himself in.

What is it that people say about Eric Lindros and Paul Kariya again?

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10-23-2012, 11:27 PM
  #44
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[mod] Moore tips the puck away from Naslund (who didnt even touch the puck) then leans INTO him and follows through with his elbow... clearly a dirty check. I cannot believe we are having an argument about this.

And yeah - Lindros' career was ruined by terrible medical management and lack of general knowledge of concussions. If he came up in todays climate and awareness of head injuries he would have likely had a long and healthy career assuming he learned to skate with his head up. Lindros was a 240lb freight train that dished out ALLOT more than he took. I always loved watching Lindros as a kid but hes one of those live by the sword die by the sword guys given the way he played.

Kariya was awesome too - and Gary Suter is absolutely the reason for his predisposition to head injuries.

Concussions suck - especially when star players are affected by them. What if Weber concussed Z when he head-smashed him last year? Would you not have felt all warm and fuzzy inside if Bertuzzi beat the absolute tar out of Weber (instead of them both seatbelting)? I know I sure would have. At no time EVER in the NHL have AHL call-ups/rooks/4th liners been permitted to cheapshot a superstar without a good chance of facing retribution. Im not a fan of goonery or cheapshots and I certainly dont agree with Bert putting Moores head into orbit like that. Just saying it all could have been avoided if the kid had half a sack.

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10-24-2012, 12:01 AM
  #45
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Moore tips the puck away from Naslund (who didnt even touch the puck) then leans INTO him and follows through with his elbow... clearly a dirty check. I cannot believe we are having an argument about this.
LOL. Leans into him? Follows through with an elbow? You're the one who's blind.

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And yeah - Lindros' career was ruined by terrible medical management and lack of general knowledge of concussions. If he came up in todays climate and awareness of head injuries he would have likely had a long and healthy career assuming he learned to skate with his head up. Lindros was a 240lb freight train that dished out ALLOT more than he took. I always loved watching Lindros as a kid but hes one of those live by the sword die by the sword guys given the way he played.

Kariya was awesome too - and Gary Suter is absolutely the reason for his predisposition to head injuries.
Notice the bolded.

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Concussions suck - especially when star players are affected by them. What if Weber concussed Z when he head-smashed him last year? Would you not have felt all warm and fuzzy inside if Bertuzzi beat the absolute tar out of Weber (instead of them both seatbelting)? I know I sure would have.
Warm and fuzzy? If you're getting warm and fuzzy from watching violence, you should be watching MMA.

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At no time EVER in the NHL have AHL call-ups/rooks/4th liners been permitted to cheapshot a superstar without a good chance of facing retribution. Im not a fan of goonery or cheapshots and I certainly dont agree with Bert putting Moores head into orbit like that. Just saying it all could have been avoided if the kid had half a sack.
Define "half a sack". Do you mean fighting a different player in a different game to "answer for his crime" as it were? He did that at the beginning of the game. Bertuzzi's shot at Moore came at the end of a 9-2 game where the Canucks were obliterated. He's the one who didn't have half a sack.

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10-24-2012, 12:29 AM
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Originally Posted by eva unit zero View Post
LOL. Leans into him? Follows through with an elbow? You're the one who's blind.



Notice the bolded.



Warm and fuzzy? If you're getting warm and fuzzy from watching violence, you should be watching MMA.



Define "half a sack". Do you mean fighting a different player in a different game to "answer for his crime" as it were? He did that at the beginning of the game. Bertuzzi's shot at Moore came at the end of a 9-2 game where the Canucks were obliterated. He's the one who didn't have half a sack.
Meh, I'm bowing outa this one. Go on with the chlorophyll ...

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10-24-2012, 01:01 AM
  #47
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Define "half a sack". Do you mean fighting a different player in a different game to "answer for his crime" as it were? He did that at the beginning of the game. Bertuzzi's shot at Moore came at the end of a 9-2 game where the Canucks were obliterated. He's the one who didn't have half a sack.
No he didn't. For payback Moore should have gone through 3 or 4 fights that game and taken his licks. None of this would have happened. If he could have turned and faced Bertuzzi and squared off it would have ended the whole thing. Instead Moore tried to skate away and Bert lost it, lost his mind and jumped Moore in a blind rage.

Eva you're judging by the standards of today which are very different than the enforcement of hockey justice in the past. A few of the attitudes remain but a lot of the violent retribution of the 1970's has been discouraged. Bertuzzi grew up playing through the 80's and 90's and man those were some tough days. The values of that era were different.

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10-24-2012, 01:20 AM
  #48
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Eva, you're a strange duck.

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10-24-2012, 01:34 AM
  #49
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Originally Posted by hockeyisforeveryone View Post
No he didn't. For payback Moore should have gone through 3 or 4 fights that game and taken his licks. None of this would have happened. If he could have turned and faced Bertuzzi and squared off it would have ended the whole thing. Instead Moore tried to skate away and Bert lost it, lost his mind and jumped Moore in a blind rage.

Eva you're judging by the standards of today which are very different than the enforcement of hockey justice in the past. A few of the attitudes remain but a lot of the violent retribution of the 1970's has been discouraged. Bertuzzi grew up playing through the 80's and 90's and man those were some tough days. The values of that era were different.
They are in a large part different because of this very incident.

In any case, Moore did not need to drop the gloves again depending on certain variables and some of that is on the Canucks. Certainly the blowout played a part. But if the Canucks wanted him to fight May or Bertuzzi that should have been known early. He felt he answered the call by fighting Cooke. The blowout didn't help things, neither did his coach continuing to play him when it was clear he would be a target. But to a certain degree it should have been made clear to Moore that he needed to fight May or Bert to begin with. It has been a while and I am pretty sure he ducked May before the Cooke fight. I know he could have gone with Sean Pronger right before the actual Bert incident as well. Not a great matchup but better than May or Bert.

But 3 or 4 times is absurd and I don't really have a huge fault with him thinking that one was enough. It was clear as the game was getting out of control he might have to go again. What he should have done is picked another player or actual went to a linesman and said I have to go with him, jump in as quickly as possible. None of that unfortunately happened. If he takes the enforcer first it is a one off deal in my opinion. Part of the reason Cooke actually went with Thornton of Boston.

Since it is clear this is where this thread is heading all of a sudden. Here is Steve Moore's teammate during that game Scott Parker in an interview about it.

http://www.milehighhockey.com/2012/7...-parker-part-2

Quote:
MHH: Hey, I still ‘boo' every time Bertuzzi touches the puck. Even when I'm at home watching on TV, I boo.

SCOTT PARKER: Yeah, yeah. He's a good man. He, he is. I mean, he did get dealt some bad cards, and the thing is, [Steve Moore] always thought he was better than everybody else. He went to Harvard, you know what, b*** me. College grad. I never went to college, but I can kick your ass. I'll bring you right down to my IQ level if you want. I'll hit you about four times in the skull, that'll bring you right down. So, you know, Todd just, it was one of those games. Markus Naslund, the captain of the Canucks, gets taken out. It was a little sketchy what happened, but, hey. And then Moore, he fought, I think Cooke came after him and then he fought, which wasn't really a fight. Todd wasn't really thrilled with it, they were losing, I think it was 8 to 1 in their home barn.

You don't do that in Canada. You talk about a sport that they love? You talk about Europeans and soccer? That's hockey in Canada. So it's the same way, if you don't respond up there, they will eat you alive.

And Todd, he might have gone overboard, and what's crazy is, even talking to him after the fact and talking to Moe, Morris and other boys that were in that, that happened, I watched that tape about a hundred times, and just the way Todd hit him, and he actually grabbed him to soften his blow when he went down, and what happened was when Moe landed on him, he actually hit the back of his neck and it actually popped up. You know, just the way Todd was holding him.

But you know, it wasn't vicious, it was just, it was the heat of the moment. It was one of those things where you, you want to do something, but you don't know if it's gonna be big, if it's gonna be small, or how it's gonna pan out. But you wanna do something. And Todd, he might not have been right and it might have been a little overboard, but you know, he did something. I mean, at least he responded, at least he tried.

I know he's marked now. People hate him, and it's amazing what that can do to a man, too. It can make you feel this small, you know. And he's not a bad man. He's a great guy and a good family guy, and he just got marked. It's one of those things...


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10-24-2012, 08:29 AM
  #50
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No he didn't. For payback Moore should have gone through 3 or 4 fights that game and taken his licks. None of this would have happened. If he could have turned and faced Bertuzzi and squared off it would have ended the whole thing. Instead Moore tried to skate away and Bert lost it, lost his mind and jumped Moore in a blind rage.
So because Moore PLAYING HOCKEY (watch the damn tape) instead of participating in a stupid sideshow to gratify the less-evolved, it makes it okay for Bertuzzi to lose his **** and end his career?

Quote:
Eva you're judging by the standards of today which are very different than the enforcement of hockey justice in the past. A few of the attitudes remain but a lot of the violent retribution of the 1970's has been discouraged. Bertuzzi grew up playing through the 80's and 90's and man those were some tough days. The values of that era were different.
But Bertuzzi wasn't playing in that era. It doesn't matter what era he grew up in and "how it was back in the day." It was 2004 and Bertuzzi assaulted a man. A good old Canadian thing to do, if it's done on a hockey rink.

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Originally Posted by RedWings19405 View Post
They are in a large part different because of this very incident.

In any case, Moore did not need to drop the gloves again depending on certain variables and some of that is on the Canucks. Certainly the blowout played a part. But if the Canucks wanted him to fight May or Bertuzzi that should have been known early. He felt he answered the call by fighting Cooke. The blowout didn't help things, neither did his coach continuing to play him when it was clear he would be a target. But to a certain degree it should have been made clear to Moore that he needed to fight May or Bert to begin with. It has been a while and I am pretty sure he ducked May before the Cooke fight. I know he could have gone with Sean Pronger right before the actual Bert incident as well. Not a great matchup but better than May or Bert.

But 3 or 4 times is absurd and I don't really have a huge fault with him thinking that one was enough. It was clear as the game was getting out of control he might have to go again. What he should have done is picked another player or actual went to a linesman and said I have to go with him, jump in as quickly as possible.
Really? Seriously?

Quote:
None of that unfortunately happened. If he takes the enforcer first it is a one off deal in my opinion. Part of the reason Cooke actually went with Thornton of Boston.

Since it is clear this is where this thread is heading all of a sudden. Here is Steve Moore's teammate during that game Scott Parker in an interview about it.

http://www.milehighhockey.com/2012/7...-parker-part-2
Ah, the Parker interview. The one where he tries to make it sound like the entire situation was Moore's fault, and not that of angry enforcers (hmm, what's that Scott, you're looking for work?) and even tries to say Bertuzzi was "softening the blow" on Moore... LOL. Yeah, I punch guys in the back of the head, then try to make sure they don't hit their head too hard on the ground. That's EXACTLY my thought process.

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