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Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must contain the word RUMOR in post title. Proposals must contain the word PROPOSAL in post title.

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Old
10-15-2012, 03:44 PM
  #126
Drydenwasthebest
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Quote:
Originally Posted by topdog View Post
Your explanition above just describes any very good all around D-man not some
oddball hybrid D-man.
You might be having a difficulty with the language, TD. Calling Subban a "hybrid" defenceman is not insulting, it is what he is. PK combines the best elements of both offensive and defensive sides of a defenceman's skillset. He is neither a PMD or a Stay-at-home defenceman, he is an amalgamation of both, thus he is a "hybrid" defenceman in the best uses of the term.

We agree that Subban is better than many people are giving him credit for. Just don't get too caught up in the terminology. I am more than happy to agree with anyone who wants to call him a "hybrid" defenceman.

Quote:
Originally Posted by startainfection
good dmen don't take tons of penalties because they stay in good enough position so they won't need to

subban is not a good dman
Actually, young defencemen do make mistakes. Subban was only a sophomore last year. If you think the fact he took a bunch of penalties means he is not a good defenceman, you might want to look at broadening the scope of what makes a good defenceman. You seem to fail to realize he is one of the league leaders in drawing penalties while being 28th in the NHL in point production while playing over 24 minutes per game against the best opposing lines on each team in every situation (PK, PP, ES). We could also point out that he was one of 15 NHL defencemen who scored over 30 points, had over 100 hits, over 100 blocked shots, and ended with a +9 on a 3rd last place team. Heck, why even pile on that all of the other players on his team had significantly better +/- ratios when he was on the ice as opposed to when he wasn't.

Finally, as was pointed out, his biggest penalized aspect to his game was his temper, not his positioning which is actually very good. As he matures, his roughing penalties will decrease.

Please, if you are going to try and trash someone, at least know SOMETHING about him other the number of penalties he took. Heck, TRY and know what the penalties were for, too, if that is the biggest reason you are going to trash the player.


Last edited by Drydenwasthebest: 10-15-2012 at 03:45 PM. Reason: fixed a problem
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Old
10-15-2012, 03:52 PM
  #127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by startainfection View Post
good dmen don't take tons of penalties because they stay in good enough position so they won't need to

subban is not a good dman
Oh please. That's your basis for argument? Subban is an awesome defenseman.

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Old
10-15-2012, 05:09 PM
  #128
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Originally Posted by startainfection View Post
i feel like he will become criticized the same way as phenuef, he is a great hitter, can put up good numbers offensively but his defensive awareness is terrible and he gives up a ton of penalties which is an awful thing for a number 1 or 2 dman to be doing

This is so wrong. Watch him play some games. At this point I'd say his defensive game is more polished than his O-game.

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Old
10-15-2012, 05:25 PM
  #129
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On the topic of the trade at hand I'd say no.

Not because there isn't enough coming back. I think there is.

A package of Reinhart, Grabner and Martin would be a good haul.

But...Reinhart is a year or two off yet....Subban has arrived and then some. He's not a finished product by any means but he's our best defenseman for better or for worse.

I could see Grabner slotting in nicely on the second line wing with Plekanec and Gionta. That would probably be the one of the fastest lines of all time! Think of the wheels!!

Matt Martin would be a nice fit on the third line.

It just doesn't quite work for me. I'd be heartbroken if we gave Subban up and watched him light it up for the NYI for the next 15 years.

I can see the Islanders being reluctant to give up that much also.

I'm kind of a closet fan of the Islanders and want them to succeed except against the Habs.

I think both teams are probably better off with what they have FWIW.
It's refreshing that this thread has actually started a legit discussion rather than the AINEC bull$(%^.

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Old
10-15-2012, 06:28 PM
  #130
Chapin Landvogt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrb1p View Post
Eller is 22, Grabner is 25. One his a center the other a winger. One his a physical freak, the other a average sized(yet really fast and agile) guy and both could be pegged 20-20 guys(more 15-15 for Eller though.)

I'd NEVER switch Grabner for Eller. Oh and Grabner played most of the time with Bailey, Nielsen, Tavares, Parenteau, Okposo and Reasoner. Not a super good line up. But compared to Blunden, Moen, AK, Geoffrion, Gomez and some little time with Patches and Cole (One game.) it's pretty good.
Thank you!

I don't know if you realized it, but what I wrote in that last post was not the suggestion of a trade proposal, but rather the attempt to point out to an Islander fan that a deal of that nature would be more akin to what the OP is suggesting in the types of ire it could generate from fans of the other team.

And as such, your reaction has proven just my point.

Quote:
And you're being an homer now saying Tinordi, Beaulieu and Thrower has less value than Dehaan, Donovan and Reinhart. They are fantastic Dman's but Beaulieu is a bluechip prospect just like Reinhart. If anything, I think it's pretty equal.
Exactly why I picked those guys for that example. I took the Habs' three most interesting defensive prospects, just as the OP mentioned the Islanders' three most interesting prospects.

The passion in your feelings for guys like Eller and Beaulieu are much like Islander fan opinions on Martin and de Haan/Donovan - namely stronger than what other team's fans can quantify from the outside looking in.

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Old
10-15-2012, 06:29 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by startainfection View Post
good dmen don't take tons of penalties because they stay in good enough position so they won't need to

subban is not a good dman
ok, I trade you Subban for Dipietro because we all know that Subban suck

please, go watch curling!

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Old
10-15-2012, 10:24 PM
  #132
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If I were to pull off a trade like this, I'd try to replace Grabner by Okposo.

Reinhart, Okposo, Martin is enough to get me thinking really hard.

Grabner, I'm not a fan.

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Old
10-15-2012, 10:26 PM
  #133
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Not a fan of this deal at all from the Habs POV. Grabner is too soft. We have our fill of 3rd liners (though Matt Martin would fill a need). Quantity does not equal quantity when it comes to players like Subban.

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Old
10-16-2012, 05:30 AM
  #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Felix60 View Post
If I were to pull off a trade like this, I'd try to replace Grabner by Okposo.

Reinhart, Okposo, Martin is enough to get me thinking really hard.

Grabner, I'm not a fan.
Thing is, whether Grabner or Okposo, this isn't a deal that the current NYI GM would be considering.

Now, if the Isles were a cup contender and one top 4 Dman away from a real legitimate shot, and were certain (however possible) that they and Subban get a quick deal done, then that might be another story.

In general though, leaving out all the player/skill/upside analysis and opinions, conservative GMs rarely (i.e. next to never) send two young, still improving NHL players with sweetheart multiyear deals (which all three of Okposo, Grabner and Martin have) and a first round Dman taken to be a top 3 NHL rearguard for an unsigned RFA.

That aspect alone should prolly carry the most weight in this discussion.

Now, I would be happy to see examples to the contrary.

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Old
10-16-2012, 05:37 AM
  #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chapin Landvogt View Post
Thing is, whether Grabner or Okposo, this isn't a deal that the current NYI GM would be considering.

Now, if the Isles were a cup contender and one top 4 Dman away from a real legitimate shot, and were certain (however possible) that they and Subban get a quick deal done, then that might be another story.

In general though, leaving out all the player/skill/upside analysis and opinions, conservative GMs rarely (i.e. next to never) send two young, still improving NHL players with sweetheart multiyear deals (which all three of Okposo, Grabner and Martin have) and a first round Dman taken to be a top 3 NHL rearguard for an unsigned RFA.

That aspect alone should prolly carry the most weight in this discussion.

Now, I would be happy to see examples to the contrary.

A deal for Subban means getting a major piece to build around. Its not filling a hole for a playoff run.

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Old
10-16-2012, 06:07 AM
  #136
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Originally Posted by HabsRock View Post
A deal for Subban means getting a major piece to build around. Its not filling a hole for a playoff run.
And thus it's curious that any Habs fan would propose him being traded.

Anyhow, the point I was making was that for the price that would be paid according to this proposal, the Islanders are not nearly close enough to contending in the first place.

Taking no less than Martin's importance to the franchise and the belief that any of Reinhart, de Haan or Donovan may be doing things very similarly to Subban within a few seasons into consideration, the 'need' or 'urgency' to acquire this type of piece of the overall puzzle simply isn't a topic in Islanderville at this point.

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Old
10-16-2012, 08:08 AM
  #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chapin Landvogt View Post
And thus it's curious that any Habs fan would propose him being traded.

Anyhow, the point I was making was that for the price that would be paid according to this proposal, the Islanders are not nearly close enough to contending in the first place.

Taking no less than Martin's importance to the franchise and the belief that any of Reinhart, de Haan or Donovan may be doing things very similarly to Subban within a few seasons into consideration, the 'need' or 'urgency' to acquire this type of piece of the overall puzzle simply isn't a topic in Islanderville at this point.
I think this thread was started by a islander fan and I think most Subban trade threads are made by the fans of the other team. That should say alot when it comes to his value.

Since The Habs are not contenders now, the only way it makes sense to me is if The Habs get 1 player that could help now and 2 more pieces for the future. Even then it is still a risky trade to make. If he stays at the same level he is now, it would be worth it for the Habs, but what if he steps it up and ends up similar to Doughty or Weber?? That Habs would have made a monumental mistake.


Last edited by IceDaddy: 10-16-2012 at 08:13 AM.
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Old
10-16-2012, 08:25 AM
  #138
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HabsRock View Post
I think this thread was started by a islander fan and I think most Subban trade threads are made by the fans of the other team. That should say alot when it comes to his value.

Since The Habs are not contenders now, the only way it makes sense to me is if The Habs get 1 player that could help now and 2 more pieces for the future. Even then it is still a risky trade to make. If he stays at the same level he is now, it would be worth it for the Habs, but what if he steps it up and ends up similar to Doughty or Weber?? That Habs would have made a monumental mistake.
Wrong. The thread starter is not an Isle fan.

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Old
10-16-2012, 08:28 AM
  #139
IceDaddy
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Originally Posted by CREW99AW View Post
Wrong. The thread starter is not an Isle fan.

Whatever, he is not a Habs fan was my point.

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Old
10-16-2012, 09:22 AM
  #140
Blind Gardien
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Originally Posted by HabsRock View Post
Whatever, he is not a Habs fan was my point.
It sounds like the OP is actually John Tavares. Anyway, it seems like both sides have voted convincingly on passing over the deal, and ample verbiage has been traded both ways, so it's probably fair to move on.
/thread

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