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2012-13 Lockout Discussion Part IV (UPDATE: "The Union took a step backward")

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Old
10-16-2012, 07:46 AM
  #51
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NHL players should get their own hotels rooms. NBA players do. Bettman wants 50%. Give them their own hotel rooms. They are grown men. No single beds.

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10-16-2012, 07:52 AM
  #52
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Good job Gary.
This is a point that I have been thinking on. This time out, the owners have greatly underestimated the players. Add the utter lack of trust of Bettman, and that his first and only negotiating tactic was to lock the players out and the ridiculous first offer, the NHL has succeeded in moving the players to the point of intransience.

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10-16-2012, 07:59 AM
  #53
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Why shouldn't the cost of an extra room be considered an incremental cost? It is one, period.

It's not like the players have to share beds. This is the kind of crap that makes it impossible to support the PA.

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10-16-2012, 08:34 AM
  #54
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Why shouldn't the cost of an extra room be considered an incremental cost? It is one, period.

It's not like the players have to share beds. This is the kind of crap that makes it impossible to support the PA.
I dont get this at all... you think its unreasonable to want their own room?

When I travel for work, if I had to share a room with one of my coworkers I would NOT be going on the trip. No chance. Hell,. I wont even make a trip if they book me on a middle seat on a flight.

These guys travel for long periods of time... how can you blame them for wanting their own space? They aren't buddies going on vacation and looking to save a few bucks on hotel rooms... this is their job. It takes them away from their home and their families for extended periods of time. I think the least they could expect is their own room so they can have a little privacy.

IDK what you do for a living, but would you want to share a hotel room with your coworkers?

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10-16-2012, 08:37 AM
  #55
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I dont get this at all... you think its unreasonable to want their own room?

When I travel for work, if I had to share a room with one of my coworkers I would NOT be going on the trip. No chance. Hell,. I wont even make a trip if they book me on a middle seat on a flight.

These guys travel for long periods of time... how can you blame them for wanting their own space? They aren't buddies going on vacation and looking to save a few bucks on hotel rooms... this is their job. It takes them away from their home and their families for extended periods of time. I think the least they could expect is their own room so they can have a little privacy.

IDK what you do for a living, but would you want to share a hotel room with your coworkers?
No, I would not. But even if it was that important to me, I would not complain about it being a hockey-related expense. If it's that important, have it factored in like everything else.

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10-16-2012, 08:54 AM
  #56
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NHL must have be paying Luntz a decent buck for his focus groups. They waste money on Luntz and the money pit in PHX but complain about 10 more hotel rooms. $4M more per season. How much waste/fat is in the NHL system? Waste/fat as in bad money being spent. How about downgrading to a motel 6 and every player getting his own room? We'll leave the light on for you.

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10-16-2012, 09:01 AM
  #57
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NHL must have be paying Luntz a decent buck for his focus groups. They waste money on Luntz and the money pit in PHX but complain about 10 more hotel rooms. $4M more per season. How much waste/fat is in the NHL system? Waste/fat as in bad money being spent. How about downgrading to a motel 6 and every player getting his own room? We'll leave the light on for you.
haha, imagine if Bettman countered with that?

Sure, every player gets their own room... at Motel 6.

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10-16-2012, 09:13 AM
  #58
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Players should definitely be entitled to their own room. When 40K per year jobs make their employees travel, single rooms are always given out.

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10-16-2012, 09:35 AM
  #59
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I can't believe hotel room costs are part of the glaring issues being discussed

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10-16-2012, 09:50 AM
  #60
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The league is clearly setting the future cbas up for the split to be based on profit, not revenue. Gary is always trying to be the innovator amongst the sports commissioners. Thought Stern chickened out too soon. Wants the NFL owners' benefits without the players' concessions.

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10-16-2012, 09:52 AM
  #61
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Players should definitely be entitled to their own room. When 40K per year jobs make their employees travel, single rooms are always given out.
Yeah, but that cost is often passed on to a paying client. It's not really the company paying for those rooms.

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10-16-2012, 09:56 AM
  #62
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
NHL must have be paying Luntz a decent buck for his focus groups. They waste money on Luntz and the money pit in PHX but complain about 10 more hotel rooms. $4M more per season. How much waste/fat is in the NHL system? Waste/fat as in bad money being spent. How about downgrading to a motel 6 and every player getting his own room? We'll leave the light on for you.
Waste money on Luntz? Luntz one of the all time great spinsters and a top propagandist. Read Words that Work

He reframed "global warming" as "climate change".

Turned "inheritance tax" into "death tax".

I don't care for his politics, but he certainly is effective at spinning an issue and getting the message you want out in a way that favors his side.

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10-16-2012, 09:59 AM
  #63
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Yeah, but that cost is often passed on to a paying client. It's not really the company paying for those rooms.
I think we're the paying client that the cost will get deferred to.

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10-16-2012, 10:01 AM
  #64
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I think we're the paying client that the cost will get deferred to.
That's riiiight.

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10-16-2012, 10:06 AM
  #65
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If they spent this much energy on revenue sharing, instead of nickle and diming the players, this league would have a healthy business model.

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10-16-2012, 10:26 AM
  #66
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Players should definitely be entitled to their own room. When 40K per year jobs make their employees travel, single rooms are always given out.
I disagree, 40k per year jobs don't require travel every week. That all adds up. Plus, I feel sharing rooms develops team chemistry and such.

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10-16-2012, 10:31 AM
  #67
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Bettman and Daly just entered the NHLPA office. Almost 30 minutes late. They had to consult the focus group reports on whether or not to end the lockout.

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10-16-2012, 10:33 AM
  #68
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The 4 guys who live within an hour of each other flew to Toronto to have a meeting. Makes sense. From: @drosennhl
Sent: Oct 16, 2012 11:29a

Bettman and Daly were the only members of the NHL's negotiating committee so it looks like it'll just be them with the Fehr brothers today.

sent via Twitter for iPhone
On Twitter: http://twitter.com/drosennhl/status/258228267943870465

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10-16-2012, 10:37 AM
  #69
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Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Waste money on Luntz? Luntz one of the all time great spinsters and a top propagandist. Read Words that Work

He reframed "global warming" as "climate change".

Turned "inheritance tax" into "death tax".

I don't care for his politics, but he certainly is effective at spinning an issue and getting the message you want out in a way that favors his side.
While this is absolutely true, I question how much the court of public opinion matters in professional sports negotiations.

When I recently helped negotiate a contract between my former employer (the union) and a local county government, public opinion mattered--the guys we were negotiating against were directly elected by the public. We were able to spin things in the local media and garner public support, which provided a ton of leverage in our negotiations. Similar circumstances at my current union employer. There's actual leverage to be gained from public sympathy in "real world" labor negotiations.

Does that exist in professional sports? Fans may align themselves with one side or the other, but how can either side practically utilize that as leverage? Fans are pissed, regardless of who is truly at fault. The only way to send that message is with our wallets. At the end of the day, though, I don't think that a fan is any more or less likely to boycott/disassociate with the product no matter how strongly they side with either management or the union. Someone who blames management is no more or less likely to thumb their nose at the league than someone who blames the players.

So what purpose does Luntz serve? It's always nice to have insight into how your side appears to the public, but what does ownership actually gain from that?

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10-16-2012, 10:48 AM
  #70
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From: @erlendssontrib
Sent: Oct 16, 2012 11:46a

#tblightning owner Jeff Vinik "I'm an optimistic person by nature and I think we'll be playing hockey sooner rather than later."

sent via UberSocial for BlackBerry
On Twitter: http://twitter.com/erlendssontrib/st...32342987034624

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10-16-2012, 10:48 AM
  #71
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While this is absolutely true, I question how much the court of public opinion matters in professional sports negotiations.

When I recently helped negotiate a contract between my former employer (the union) and a local county government, public opinion mattered--the guys we were negotiating against were directly elected by the public. We were able to spin things in the local media and garner public support, which provided a ton of leverage in our negotiations. Similar circumstances at my current union employer. There's actual leverage to be gained from public sympathy in "real world" labor negotiations.

Does that exist in professional sports? Fans may align themselves with one side or the other, but how can either side practically utilize that as leverage? Fans are pissed, regardless of who is truly at fault. The only way to send that message is with our wallets. At the end of the day, though, I don't think that a fan is any more or less likely to boycott/disassociate with the product no matter how strongly they side with either management or the union. Someone who blames management is no more or less likely to thumb their nose at the league than someone who blames the players.

So what purpose does Luntz serve? It's always nice to have insight into how your side appears to the public, but what does ownership actually gain from that?
Maybe. I just think that in every conflict you want to have your message portrayed in the manor you feel is most favorable to your position.

Beats dealing with the real issues.

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10-16-2012, 10:50 AM
  #72
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
From: @erlendssontrib
Sent: Oct 16, 2012 11:46a

#tblightning owner Jeff Vinik "I'm an optimistic person by nature and I think we'll be playing hockey sooner rather than later."

sent via UberSocial for BlackBerry
On Twitter: http://twitter.com/erlendssontrib/st...32342987034624
Is he going to go to timeout for speaking to the media about the lockout?

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10-16-2012, 10:54 AM
  #73
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
From: @erlendssontrib
Sent: Oct 16, 2012 11:46a

#tblightning owner Jeff Vinik "I'm an optimistic person by nature and I think we'll be playing hockey sooner rather than later."

sent via UberSocial for BlackBerry
On Twitter: http://twitter.com/erlendssontrib/st...32342987034624
How dare he talk! 1 Million dollar fine, and lost a 1st round draft pick!! That should teach him for leaking secrets!

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10-16-2012, 10:57 AM
  #74
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Vinik should be fine. He didn't mention any labor stuff like Jimmy D who starts mentioning unwritten rules regarding group IIs. Dolan probably got a phone call for his I want us to play hockey when he spoke to Katie Strang at the Torts dog walk. Pegulla got a phone call when he said he couldn't discuss the lockout because Gary will punish the Sabres. Vinik has spent some decent bucks in TB. He will get more revenue sharing dollars in the next CBA.

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10-16-2012, 11:10 AM
  #75
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im still amazed that nhl players share rooms

i think its more a tradition thing like an old time hockey thing. amazes me that they still have roommates.

i travel alot probably half my time every month is on the road. i can't imagine my company ever making me share a room with a co worker.

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