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2012 Edmonton Eskimos(and CFL) Thread III: Two in a row.

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Old
10-15-2012, 01:01 PM
  #976
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Originally Posted by Reimer View Post
Was at the game on Saturday and wow all I can say is JC Sherrit. That dude is a beast.

It's unbelievable how much that guy can do when he has dudes towering over him.

That pick he made was huge and unbelievable.
Yeah and not long after I saw him in a shoving match after the play with an O-line man who was at least a foot taller and 100 pound heavier and he was giving no ground.

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10-15-2012, 01:27 PM
  #977
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Quick question, with the likelihood of a crossover playoff birth looking for inevitable for a western team every week; is there a scenario where the crossover team actually has a home playoff date? If for example, the Esks manage to finish 4th in the west but also somehow finish with what would be the second highest amount of points in the east wouldnt the playoff game be in Edmonton?
I believe that we would go in as the third-place team in the east, regardless of our record.

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10-15-2012, 05:18 PM
  #978
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I believe that we would go in as the third-place team in the east, regardless of our record.
This is correct 100%. Toronto will likely be gifted a home playoff game (good for business on their end at least). I think Naylor put up an opinion piece on TSN recently about the CFL going to a "one division" format in order to alleviate this possible problem.

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10-15-2012, 05:49 PM
  #979
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Honestly, if the Esks cross-over and then make it to the GC because of an easier conference, I'll be laughing my ass off.

It looks like a serious possibility given how poorly Toronto and Hamilton are playing and how Jekyll and Hyde the Alouettes are.

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10-15-2012, 06:23 PM
  #980
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Still laughing at all the pre-season banter coming from TSN about how the balance of power had shifted to the east due to Ray and Burris, yet here we are once again with a disticnt possibility that only one Eastern team will finish above .500

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10-15-2012, 07:30 PM
  #981
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Agreed Eskimo fans are delusional if they think the team is going to win the GC this year.
The only thing I'll say is if our D can return to the level of the first 5 games, and our offense doesn't go full stupid(ie not giving Charles enough carries), then I wouldn't count us out.

Regardless, I'd like to just get into the dance and see where we can go from there.

Any news on when Howard/Williams will be back?

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10-15-2012, 09:58 PM
  #982
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Originally Posted by Oilbleeder View Post
Any news on when Howard/Williams will be back?
Not sure about Williams but Howard is expected back in week 17 or 18. His return will be a huge boost for our defence. The guy is a beast and one man cannot handle him so he gets double teamed. He may not get many sacks but the other guys will see their sack totals and pressure increase.

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10-15-2012, 10:30 PM
  #983
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:Well if you doubt it feel free to dig up last years threads as I was saying it frequently last year that he should REPLACE Ray at QB. I have no problem with Joseph as the starter. Although a couple games he looked pretty neutered by the Crandell run offence.

Also note that several weeks ago when we were losing I was applauding Joseph's tongue lashing of an unmotivated Fred Stamps who was not paying enough attention to his cuts. I like the leadership Joseph brings to this team on and off the field. 2 weeks ago I was talking here about how Joseph asked the team if he could have input in the offence and worked with the coaching staff to revise some schemes. Thus much more rollout and playaction that we're seeing.
You mean the same Crandell offence that Ray had to endure while he was here?

As I have stated earlier I have no issue with Joseph but lets be realistic about this player for a moment.
You mentioned earlier that Joseph was 'solid' in TO...he may be a good leader which is fine but we are talking about a QB that was a complete bust in TO.
His QB rating was 82 in 2008 and 65.7 in 2009. Maybe thats solid to you...that might explain why you are such a big fan of Jyles.

We are talking about a QB that wasn't good enough to make the top 3 QB's on this team 2 years ago.

Your 'Ray is gone' euphoria clearly clouds your QB judgement because the Joseph you are talking about doesn't exist.
Maybe he plays out of his mind for the last few games...I am more then okay with that but it doesn't change the fact that Joseph is past his best before date.

BTW...regarding Stamps. I would be unmotivated too if I had a slug like Jyles over throwing every 2nd pass.



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I have actually several times in the thread. Jyles didn't get it going sufficiently in the alotted time. I still think if a reasonable team spent a year on him they'd start to see some results. The trouble for Jyles and Joseph is they spent too much time in Toronto.
As Joseph is now demonstrating you shouldn't judge a QB on how bad the team is that he's playing for.
For sure, but the guy could play well in the past and is playing well now. Enjoy it.
Jyles didn't get what going? The QB skills he never had?
Holy denial Batman.


As for Joseph...he didn't all of a sudden make the "worst receiving core in the CFL" (as you put it) much better.
Joseph is benefiting from the improved play of the O-line, improved play calling and a commitment to a running game.




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Nah, I don't much like Elliots game. I really can't think of one thing he does particularly well. Something funny as well with his completion stats in Winnipeg(and all stats derived from Winnipeg) is I've never seen a QB throw the ball out of bounds as often as he does. 6 times a game easy. Why are they not counting these as incompletions?
Huh...this doesn't make a whole lot of sense. You are clearly making stuff up to prop up suspect reasoning.


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WE agree here actually. But consider that there might be an advantage in that we HAVEN'T played Joseph all that much. We'e paced him along. The season is nearly over and the reality is that we only need him playing a handful of more good games. We'll see.

ps I wondered whether the Riders had peaked too early and speculated that last night here. Looks like we didn't get the Riders A game.


Well pretty clearly Ray hasn't been all that difficult to replace. Our main problems have been injuries. To defensive players and our number one weapon, Bowman. With even Bowman in the lineup all year you'd see a much different team, You'd see more of Jyles as well... Jyles and Bowman had it going. Jyles worked well with Koch as well. Less well with stamps..
To you Ray wasn't too hard to replace because your legendary support of Jyles and your questionable recollection of Josephs past has created a high water mark that doesn't exist.

As for Jyles you are probably the only Eskimo fan in existence that wants to see more of him.


Last edited by guymez: 10-15-2012 at 10:38 PM.
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Old
10-16-2012, 12:55 AM
  #984
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You mean the same Crandell offence that Ray had to endure while he was here?

As I have stated earlier I have no issue with Joseph but lets be realistic about this player for a moment.
You mentioned earlier that Joseph was 'solid' in TO...he may be a good leader which is fine but we are talking about a QB that was a complete bust in TO.
His QB rating was 82 in 2008 and 65.7 in 2009. Maybe thats solid to you...that might explain why you are such a big fan of Jyles.

We are talking about a QB that wasn't good enough to make the top 3 QB's on this team 2 years ago.

Your 'Ray is gone' euphoria clearly clouds your QB judgement because the Joseph you are talking about doesn't exist.
Maybe he plays out of his mind for the last few games...I am more then okay with that but it doesn't change the fact that Joseph is past his best before date.

BTW...regarding Stamps. I would be unmotivated too if I had a slug like Jyles over throwing every 2nd pass.





Jyles didn't get what going? The QB skills he never had?
Holy denial Batman.


As for Joseph...he didn't all of a sudden make the "worst receiving core in the CFL" (as you put it) much better.
Joseph is benefiting from the improved play of the O-line, improved play calling and a commitment to a running game.






Huh...this doesn't make a whole lot of sense. You are clearly making stuff up to prop up suspect reasoning.




To you Ray wasn't too hard to replace because your legendary support of Jyles and your questionable recollection of Josephs past has created a high water mark that doesn't exist.

As for Jyles you are probably the only Eskimo fan in existence that wants to see more of him.
Not your best work.

QB ratings? lol. Joseph passed for over 4000yds in 2008 on a bad Argos team with not much to speak of in terms of weapons. Was their anything wrong with Josephs performance or rating the year before in Sask? Not that I put any merit whatsoever in QB ratings which are being falsely applied to the CFL.

You clearly blame Crandell, Macciocia, or whoever for RR's shortcomings here. What about Jacques Chapdelaine though who has had success everywhere but here with RR? That could do nothing with RR but has benefited the other offences he's worked with. Inconvenient truth?

What of the current year in Toronto with Ray in a new offense tailored for him still only tossing for 12TD's? Not much different under Milanovich is it? This was supposed to be the year acccording to many of you Ray backers that he was going to show the Eskimos everything they'd been doing wrong with him all these years...or here's a thought, maybe its just an ordinary Ray being ordinary.

Its interesting that you note the team now has success through use of the rollout. Interesting because thats not something thats available with Ray who is a straight drop back passer in a league not necessarily well suited for that.

Ray hasn't had much going for him since 2005. Even in that year the Eskimos offence was suspect much of the campaign and going down the stretch the club had to be rescued by Maas or the Eskimos wouldn't have won the cup that year. Fact is Ray only has one other cup in a long career here with this team and did nothing of note the past half dozen seasons here. Fact is your heralded RR is arguably farther past best before date then the cup winner from 2007. Despite their relative ages.

Don't confuse where Joseph was a couple seasons either. Its poor reasoning to suggest that where a veteran QB was on the depth chart is indicative of his capability. Clearly at that time this was RR's team. For whatever reason. This does not equate to an unseen Joseph being incapable at the time.

If you can't see that Joseph can still play the game at a high level I'm not sure what you're watching.


Last edited by Replacement: 10-16-2012 at 01:13 AM.
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Old
10-16-2012, 07:23 AM
  #985
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I cannot believe there is still some RR banter on here. Has anyone really, and I mean really, missed him that much?

I love how people shred our QB's apart and yet we've beat RR twice this year and looked good in doing it. I don't care who he plays for, it's always the same bloody song and dance, "He has no offensive line." Come on people! Ricky Ray has no mobility to speak of and he certainly doesn't call his number often because why? Because he can't scramble for god's sake. He takes hit after hit because he won't come out of the pocket.

So here we sit with an injured football team and could very well end up with more points than a team with the great one at the helm. Oh and wait, he's injured again. There has not been one loss by us this season where I have said, "Oh if we had Ray we would have won that game."

If nothing else, I've enjoyed watching Joseph execute two impressive games and when we were second and long a number of times, he found a way to get it done. What I do remember thinking is that if we had RR in there on 2nd and long, he'd have thrown a five yard pass and expect the receiver to run for the next 17.

I've been extremely frustrated with this team this season and yet it's been more about the play calling than anything.

To still be arguing about a player that is no longer here is ridiculous. He is gone, get over it.

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10-16-2012, 09:38 AM
  #986
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Originally Posted by AJGass4 View Post
I cannot believe there is still some RR banter on here. Has anyone really, and I mean really, missed him that much?

I love how people shred our QB's apart and yet we've beat RR twice this year and looked good in doing it. I don't care who he plays for, it's always the same bloody song and dance, "He has no offensive line." Come on people! Ricky Ray has no mobility to speak of and he certainly doesn't call his number often because why? Because he can't scramble for god's sake. He takes hit after hit because he won't come out of the pocket.

So here we sit with an injured football team and could very well end up with more points than a team with the great one at the helm. Oh and wait, he's injured again. There has not been one loss by us this season where I have said, "Oh if we had Ray we would have won that game."

If nothing else, I've enjoyed watching Joseph execute two impressive games and when we were second and long a number of times, he found a way to get it done. What I do remember thinking is that if we had RR in there on 2nd and long, he'd have thrown a five yard pass and expect the receiver to run for the next 17.

I've been extremely frustrated with this team this season and yet it's been more about the play calling than anything.

To still be arguing about a player that is no longer here is ridiculous. He is gone, get over it.
Sorry for my own role in it. It is going to be hard to avoid having RR in the discussion sometimes as he is inevitably the 10yr comparison yard stick. I think Joseph is doing great as stated and love how the rollout is totally negating any opposition rush, as we knew it would, but that we could never execute without a mobile QB.

Joseph should get a lot of credit for his input, and running an offense that works with the personnel we have here. Its really a plus that a veteran QB is involved in the creation of the offensive schemes and makes the effort to contribute to the planning. Lets hope he stays on as a coach. These are two better offensive performances than I've seen here in years. Without the receivers and Messam leaving so many pts on the field we'd have scored 50 easy.

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10-16-2012, 09:44 AM
  #987
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So what exactly was this issue that Gregor and Rishaug hinted about Jyles and Stamps? Jyles didn't like Stamps or what?

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10-16-2012, 09:58 AM
  #988
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So what exactly was this issue that Gregor and Rishaug hinted about Jyles and Stamps? Jyles didn't like Stamps or what?
No Stamps likely was the only one who had balls to say Jyles was a ****ing joke.

Then Kerry had to get Stamps head back into the game and the rest is history.

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10-16-2012, 10:07 AM
  #989
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Come on you guys, quit piling on Jyles and give him some credit. His newfound talent as bench cheerleader and back slapper when guys come off the field has been impressive to say the least.

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10-16-2012, 12:07 PM
  #990
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Charles and Shaw get player of the week nods for Edmonton, Emery got top Canadian and top defensive player for the Als.

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10-16-2012, 12:21 PM
  #991
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Where can I find QB efficiency ratings? I'm looking for the season's ratings for Joseph and Ray. I can't find them at cfl.ca but maybe I just don't know where to look. Anyone know?

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10-16-2012, 12:30 PM
  #992
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That post wasn't towards you at all Replacement, you've tried your damndest to be positive this year and I appreciate that.

It's more towards the posters that seem to think we would go 18-0 if we had Ray running the offense. I, for one, think we would be worse off.

I love this football team but for the past few seasons I screamed at RR more than anyone on the team. I was so, so tired of watching him hit the turf moreso because of his own ineptness than anyone else on the team.

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10-16-2012, 12:54 PM
  #993
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Originally Posted by AJGass4 View Post
That post wasn't towards you at all Replacement, you've tried your damndest to be positive this year and I appreciate that.

It's more towards the posters that seem to think we would go 18-0 if we had Ray running the offense. I, for one, think we would be worse off.

I love this football team but for the past few seasons I screamed at RR more than anyone on the team. I was so, so tired of watching him hit the turf moreso because of his own ineptness than anyone else on the team.
I agree with this. I have no problem with trading Ray, but dislike the trade because the return wasn't enough, in my opinion. I don't think Ray is an elite QB any more, but if Toronto felt he was, I think a reasonable return for a QB like that would be two first-round draft choices, a QB and an impact player. I think that taking Jyles was a mistake but maybe the Argos insisted (but why, as they could have always cut him). If you take out Jyles, we should have insisted on either another player or a second-round draft choice.

Tillman said that he got all he could for Ray, but I don't get how that could be the case when he also said that Toronto was aggressively pursuing him.

I liked it to the Pronger trade. If I had been the Oilers' brass, I would have insisted on Pronger. You want him, fine. It's Getzlaf or there is no deal and Pronger can sit if he wants.

Back to Ray, I don't think this team would be any better with him this season, and certainly not next season.

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10-16-2012, 01:24 PM
  #994
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I agree with you also MoneyGuy, the return wasn't great. Especially if TO was pursuing him.

That being said, maybe he just isn't worth what alot of people thought.

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10-16-2012, 01:35 PM
  #995
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Where can I find QB efficiency ratings? I'm looking for the season's ratings for Joseph and Ray. I can't find them at cfl.ca but maybe I just don't know where to look. Anyone know?
tsn.ca/cfl/statistics

Ray has 93.3, Joseph 95.8, Jyles 81.9, and Charles 143.8. It's a pretty useless stat in my opinion but those are the numbers.

edit: Nichols is 83

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10-16-2012, 02:27 PM
  #996
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Where can I find QB efficiency ratings? I'm looking for the season's ratings for Joseph and Ray. I can't find them at cfl.ca but maybe I just don't know where to look. Anyone know?
Cfl.ca has it. Click on stats then open up "complete listing" under passing yards and it gives you all the QB stats.

I wouldn't much bother with it though. The guys quoting the "QB rating" would be the first to critique other such "advanced stats" in hockey and for instance "corsi rating".

In anycase people tend to use these numbers without any knowledge of what this formulated stat actually is, which factors go into it, and without even thinking about its applicability to the CFL game.

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Originally Posted by AJGass4 View Post
That post wasn't towards you at all Replacement, you've tried your damndest to be positive this year and I appreciate that.

It's more towards the posters that seem to think we would go 18-0 if we had Ray running the offense. I, for one, think we would be worse off.

I love this football team but for the past few seasons I screamed at RR more than anyone on the team. I was so, so tired of watching him hit the turf moreso because of his own ineptness than anyone else on the team.
Thanks, and we definitely agree on this. I just like seeing a QB walk to the sidelines upset whenever its a two and out, or didn't extend a drive and letting people know what they should be doing differently. The level of accountability with Joseph driving the bus is a lot higher. Every player on the field knows that Joseph is going to work his hardest and leave every bit on the field and its a little infectious from there. I don't think anybody can deny either how much the encounters between Stamps and Joseph were followed by Stamps really turning his season around. Joseph was the one guy on the offence saying, "no, I expect to be winning now, no excuses, and lets get it done out there." It was great actually to see a QB upset at losing. That should be a given but its been awhile. Gotta say Jyles don't have it either in that regard. Guy could make a bonehead play costing his team a game and be smiling 5 mins later.

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10-16-2012, 02:28 PM
  #997
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