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2012-13 Lockout Discussion Part IV (UPDATE: "The Union took a step backward")

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Old
10-16-2012, 12:59 PM
  #201
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Pretty clear that a lot of this offer is driven by negative PR. I.e., take such a step forward that if the other side balks, they now assume the role of the bad guys. That's a PR minefield for the NHLPA.

You can see it already on the Business board. Fans whinging about Fehr's comment about "negotiating" from this point instead of just accepting the offer so there can be hockey.

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10-16-2012, 01:00 PM
  #202
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
From: @TGfireandice
Sent: Oct 16, 2012 1:16p

The keys to the NHL proposal from what I can gather: protection of 1st year salary through return of $$ over time, 50/50 split, long-term.

sent via TweetDeck
On Twitter: http://twitter.com/TGfireandice/stat...55209350955008
Ah this is screwed by Bettman. So screwed. Like if the NHL "overpay" 5% this season, they take it back over the course of the rest of the CBA. You give without giving, but at least handle the biggest complaint of the players...

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10-16-2012, 01:01 PM
  #203
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@JSportsnet: Another interesting tidbit from NHL offer... Players' Salaries for those NHLers playing in the AHL would be part of the cap.

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10-16-2012, 01:01 PM
  #204
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John Shannon ‏@JSportsnet

Another interesting tidbit from NHL offer... Players' Salaries for those NHLers playing in the AHL would be part of the cap.

Uh-Oh...

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10-16-2012, 01:02 PM
  #205
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
From: @TSNBobMcKenzie
Sent: Oct 16, 2012 1:18p

50 per cent of that is $1.7325B. Players salaries committed for this season expected (by both sides) to be about $1.95B, give or take $25M.

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11 percent escrow-roll back...

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10-16-2012, 01:02 PM
  #206
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We can buy Redden out at this point, if that becomes an issue. Should still be able to fit everyone.

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10-16-2012, 01:02 PM
  #207
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They'd almost certainly have to allow amnesty buyouts if that's the case. Perhaps more than one per team. I doubt that'll fly with the players though.

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10-16-2012, 01:03 PM
  #208
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A few tweaks here and there and we will have a season. NHL would save face by playing an 82 game season. All of us around here are ready to kill eachother, we need hockey already. Ball is in the PA's hand now.

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10-16-2012, 01:04 PM
  #209
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
From: @JSportsnet
Sent: Oct 16, 2012 1:28p

Entry Level Contracts would be 4 years in Length

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4 years is a long time for a Russian...

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10-16-2012, 01:06 PM
  #210
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So the 50-50 split would essentially mean a 57.75M salary cap for the first year?

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10-16-2012, 01:06 PM
  #211
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
They'd almost certainly have to allow amnesty buyouts if that's the case. Perhaps more than one per team. I doubt that'll fly with the players though.
Why? Isn't that a huge win for the players?

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10-16-2012, 01:07 PM
  #212
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
They'd almost certainly have to allow amnesty buyouts if that's the case. Perhaps more than one per team. I doubt that'll fly with the players though.
Why do you say that? Amnesty buy-out = the player gets paid (probably the equivalent of multiple years' salary) now, AND can be a UFA to sign with any other team and then make more on top of that. (Plus, if he's in the minors, he can potentially return to the NHL - or at least go to the SEL/KHL/Switzerland.)

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10-16-2012, 01:07 PM
  #213
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turcotte8 View Post
John Shannon ‏@JSportsnet

Another interesting tidbit from NHL offer... Players' Salaries for those NHLers playing in the AHL would be part of the cap.

Uh-Oh...
Redden can/will be bought out.

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10-16-2012, 01:07 PM
  #214
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ola View Post
4 years is a long time for a Russian...
We don't have many Russians in our league at this point anyways and those that we do were drafted high enough to have substantial bonuses in their ELC

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10-16-2012, 01:08 PM
  #215
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RGY View Post
I'm not saying i like Zipay but he said nothing wrong here

This.

He never said "Sign this ASAP!"

He said ball is in your court and clock ticking.

I read that as "Take a long hard look at it, but quickly, tweak some things if you want, but be aware of asking for too much... any delay in the back and forth coming in the next couple of weeks could be costly."

Perfectly accurate IMHO

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10-16-2012, 01:09 PM
  #216
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Originally Posted by -31- View Post
Why? Isn't that a huge win for the players?
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post
Why do you say that? Amnesty buy-out = the player gets paid (probably the equivalent of multiple years' salary) now, AND can be a UFA to sign with any other team and then make more on top of that. (Plus, if he's in the minors, he can potentially return to the NHL - or at least go to the SEL/KHL/Switzerland.)
I was referring to the part about players in the AHL counting against the cap, not the buyout part of it. Doubt the players would take a hit in the share, and then be okay with diluting that even more with AHLers.

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10-16-2012, 01:11 PM
  #217
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
I was referring to the part about players in the AHL counting against the cap, not the buyout part of it. Doubt the players would take a hit in the share, and then be okay with diluting that even more with AHLers.
Gotcha.

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10-16-2012, 01:11 PM
  #218
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
I was referring to the part about players in the AHL counting against the cap, not the buyout part of it. Doubt the players would take a hit in the share, and then be okay with diluting that even more with AHLers.
I dunno - I think that's an easy sell. Who among he players is going to admit he thinks he'll be on a one-way contract in the minors, especially after all such current deals are amnestied?

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10-16-2012, 01:15 PM
  #219
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Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post
I dunno - I think that's an easy sell. Who among he players is going to admit he thinks he'll be on a one-way contract in the minors, especially after all such current deals are amnestied?
I guess the question is; Who qualifies as an "NHLer" under their definition? Players on ELCs are technically NHLers. Does their AHL salary count? Or does the full NHL value count against the cap? Unless I'm misunderstanding this (which is certainly possible) there could be several million in additional contract costs against the cap.

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10-16-2012, 01:16 PM
  #220
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Originally Posted by broadwayblue View Post
So the 50-50 split would essentially mean a 57.75M salary cap for the first year?
Not sure exactly how it would work...but 57% to 50% is a 12.2% drop.

A 12.2% reduction in the $70.2M cap is $61.6M.

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10-16-2012, 01:16 PM
  #221
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
I guess the question is; Who qualifies as an "NHLer" under their definition? Players on ELCs are technically NHLers. Does their AHL salary count? Or does the full NHL value count against the cap? Unless I'm misunderstanding this (which is certainly possible) there could be several million in additional contract costs against the cap.
I assume it would be anyone signed to a one-way deal. But who knows.

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10-16-2012, 01:21 PM
  #222
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Originally Posted by HatTrick Swayze View Post
I assume it would be anyone signed to a one-way deal. But who knows.
That's what I'd assume, but it's probably somethign that can be negotiated.

Also pretty sure the Rangers anticipated that this might happen. What they have in place to deal with it, who knows. But if the cap is going down to $60 mill, then a whole lot of teams not named the Rangers are going to need a compliance buyout

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10-16-2012, 01:21 PM
  #223
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thoughts? the guy writing that piece is a joke. its drivel. it isn't a lose lose scenario...what is a lose-lose scenario? no proposals, no movement, no talk. exactly what we've seen the NHLPA do this entire time. NHL is losing the PR battle only because the players are who the fans cheer for on a nightly basis, we are predisposed to want them to win. The NHL would win the PR battle because of how overwhelmingly stupid it would be to not use this as the starting point of a final contract. don't take the immediate 50/50, phase it in over 2 or 3 years...change a few of the contract lengths, and get the season started.

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10-16-2012, 01:21 PM
  #224
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
I guess the question is; Who qualifies as an "NHLer" under their definition? Players on ELCs are technically NHLers. Does their AHL salary count? Or does the full NHL value count against the cap? Unless I'm misunderstanding this (which is certainly possible) there could be several million in additional contract costs against the cap.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HatTrick Swayze View Post
I assume it would be anyone signed to a one-way deal. But who knows.
What he said.

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10-16-2012, 01:22 PM
  #225
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Originally Posted by Inferno View Post
thoughts? the guy writing that piece is a joke. its drivel. it isn't a lose lose scenario...what is a lose-lose scenario? no proposals, no movement, no talk. exactly what we've seen the NHLPA do this entire time. NHL is losing the PR battle only because the players are who the fans cheer for on a nightly basis, we are predisposed to want them to win. The NHL would win the PR battle because of how overwhelmingly stupid it would be to not use this as the starting point of a final contract. don't take the immediate 50/50, phase it in over 2 or 3 years...change a few of the contract lengths, and get the season started.
Word.

If I were the PA I'd ask for at least 1 year of phasing in, maybe tack on an extra year to the end of the CBA as a concession (I get the feeling the NHL would like a longer CBA rather than shorter), and negotiate over some of the contract restrictions

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