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2012-13 Lockout Discussion Part IV (UPDATE: "The Union took a step backward")

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10-16-2012, 04:25 PM
  #351
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azrok22 View Post
Hope that doesn't mean no compliance buyouts, because if they also prohibit burying guys in the AHL, Redden will be a problem in 2013-2014.
Assuming the PA accepts this proposal as-is.

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10-16-2012, 04:26 PM
  #352
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50/50 is fair. Anything less than that and the players should continue to hold out forever. So this is a solid deal. Hope this gets done quick, then.

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10-16-2012, 04:27 PM
  #353
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azrok22 View Post
Hope that doesn't mean no compliance buyouts, because if they also prohibit burying guys in the AHL, Redden will be a problem in 2013-2014.
He'll be bought out at a much reduced rate. It'll still hurt but it won't hurt $6.5 mill worth

edit: if he's bought out next year the cap hit will be

2013-14: $3,166,667
2014-15: $1,666,667

which still sucks, just not as much

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10-16-2012, 04:28 PM
  #354
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Levitate View Post
He'll be bought out at a much reduced rate. It'll still hurt but it won't hurt $6.5 mill worth
His buyout if they do it after this season

Wade Redden buyout from CapGeek.com

2013-14: $3,166,667
2014-15: $1,666,667

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Old
10-16-2012, 04:29 PM
  #355
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if that rule changes you would HAVE to allow a buyout period or have contracts grandfathered in.

so i wouldn't worry about redden

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10-16-2012, 04:30 PM
  #356
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
I don't think it forced it, but going into the first "serious" negotiations with the fans in your corner? That's a huge win. Now, instead of the public perception being primarily sympathetic towards the players, many of those people are now wondering, "Why haven't they signed it yet!? I want my hockey back!"

I said it before the lockout started, but it still rings true for me: The most interesting part of this whole charade isn't the terms of the CBA, but how the two sides are going to use new media tools to sway the fans in their favor. 8 years ago, this wouldn't have been news to 70% of the fans until tomorrow mornings paper; hours after the NHLPA had a chance to review it. Now, it's touched millions of people in a matter of minutes thanks to Twitter, thus putting even more pressure on the players.
Yep. Both sides need to use the PR tool.

With that said I don't believe the two sides are any closer to a deal than they were yesterday (but.. as I said I really don't understand what the league really offered that wasn't expected). Serious bargaining? I guess they'll talk, so that is positive. The real question is how far is each side prepared to move to get a deal done in OCt? NOV? DEC? JAN?

In any case, each side must work their organizations to show they are bargaining in good faith before the next slate of games are cancelled. No one wishes to be blamed for missing more games. If nothing else, that's what this latest flurry is truly about.

Just my 2Cts

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10-16-2012, 04:30 PM
  #357
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Levitate View Post
He'll be bought out at a much reduced rate. It'll still hurt but it won't hurt $6.5 mill worth
Or traded with an asset to a cap floor team. His cap hit will still be $3 million more than his actual salary over the 2 remaining seasons.

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10-16-2012, 04:37 PM
  #358
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azrok22 View Post
Hope that doesn't mean no compliance buyouts, because if they also prohibit burying guys in the AHL, Redden will be a problem in 2013-2014.
That provision is bad for escrow rates. I think a cap at 52% this season, no overage allowance, is better for the players.

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10-16-2012, 04:39 PM
  #359
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Am I the only one who feels the PA will shoot this deal down? I think we are forgetting Fehr is a son of a gun and they are not desperate for a deal to get done yet.

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10-16-2012, 04:40 PM
  #360
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Am I the only one who feels the PA will shoot this deal down? I think we are forgetting Fehr is a son of a gun and they are not desperate for a deal to get done yet.
I think it will lead to a deal, but I don't think this is the deal.

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10-16-2012, 04:42 PM
  #361
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bubba5 View Post
Am I the only one who feels the PA will shoot this deal down? I think we are forgetting Fehr is a son of a gun and they are not desperate for a deal to get done yet.
I definitely think there is no chance they will accept it outright. But at the end of the day, there is still pressure on the players - after this week or whatever, 82 games is off the table. Which means the players will OFFICIALLY be out a check or more. They will have to weight what a few %s of HRR this year are worth in terms of missed pay.

I hope cooler heads prevail and that personal issues will not play into it to help everyone see the forest for the trees.

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10-16-2012, 04:46 PM
  #362
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bubba5 View Post
Am I the only one who feels the PA will shoot this deal down? I think we are forgetting Fehr is a son of a gun and they ate not desperate for a deal to get done yet.

You mean besides me?

If the players take the owners move as a sign of weakness there will be no deal as they will play hardball.

As I think about it... the NHL's goal is to say to the players that if a 52% rate is what you really want then consider how quickly that will be gone with a reduced schedule.

I suspect the PA is trying to decide how high they could counter and seem like the reasonable party? Does a 54% offer KO a deal? What about 53% , etc?

Is the NHL holding another pt or two? if so a deal will get done. If not, we're looking at Dec as the earliest season opener.

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10-16-2012, 04:56 PM
  #363
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Bob McKenzie ‏@TSNBobMcKenzie

Now we have a deadline. If deal is reached, training camp would open Oct. 26. New CBA needs to done by Oct. 25 to save 82-game season.


9 days to get it done.

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10-16-2012, 04:59 PM
  #364
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https://twitter.com/real_espnlebrun/...25303418556419

Interesting, teams would be allowed up to 70 million in this deal

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10-16-2012, 05:02 PM
  #365
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Too lazy to look through the thread. The last time I was here (earlier today), it was on page 5.

Besides the 50/50 split, can someone please list for me all the disclosed terms of the proposed CBA?

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10-16-2012, 05:02 PM
  #366
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Lebrun:

Quote:
Am told entry-level contracts (rookies) in new league offer is 2 years...
Say wha....... ?

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10-16-2012, 05:03 PM
  #367
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Originally Posted by Kreiders Underwear View Post
Too lazy to look through the thread. The last time I was here (earlier today), it was on page 5.

Besides the 50/50 split, can someone please list for me all the disclosed terms of the proposed CBA?
- NHL contracts stashed in the minors will count against the cap.
- UFA age would be increased to 28 (or eight NHL seasons).
- Contracts would be limited to 5 years length.
- Arbitration would still exist
- Entry level contracts - there's been reports saying 2, 3 or 4 years.

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10-16-2012, 05:04 PM
  #368
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Where or how is the cap being set for 13-14? Is the NHL going to keep it at $70.2M for two years like the NBA did at $58,044,000? If it drops from $70.2M in the summer of 2013,teams will need some mechanism if the cap drops based on a new system in the CBA. The NBA gave teams 1 amnesty buyout to use during any off-season as long as the player was under contract when the previous CBA finished.

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10-16-2012, 05:06 PM
  #369
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The players were at 54% already. They may come back with 52 or 51%, but I'm hoping they forego that offer and just try to minimize escrow this year. The bigger, long term issue is contracts and counting AHL deals against the cap. The NHL knows something is going back to the players. They are talking now about priorities and what the soft spots are for the league.

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10-16-2012, 05:07 PM
  #370
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -31- View Post
Lebrun:



Say wha....... ?
I guess that's the NHL's concession for free agency being pushed back a year.

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10-16-2012, 05:07 PM
  #371
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -31- View Post
- NHL contracts stashed in the minors will count against the cap.
- UFA age would be increased to 28 (or eight NHL seasons).
- Contracts would be limited to 5 years length.
- Arbitration would still exist
- Entry level contracts - there's been reports saying 2, 3 or 4 years.
Thanks.

So it's not that bad of a deal.

On the bolded, does that include contracts that are already there, such as Redden? Will there be an amnesty buyout?

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Old
10-16-2012, 05:08 PM
  #372
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Brooks reported in July that the NHL had proposed a portion of the one way contract in the AHL counting in the AHL

Quote:
There is the demand for five-year term limits on contracts, the elimination of all signing bonuses and a flat salary figure for every year of a contract. No front-loading. No using the long-term mechanism to create cap space and maneuverability. A portion of one-way contracts in the minors charged against the cap.
http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/more_...3ctsOZ3siejtMI

The NHL backed off all of their demands expect the contract term limits.

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10-16-2012, 05:10 PM
  #373
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Originally Posted by trueblue9441 View Post
https://twitter.com/real_espnlebrun/...25303418556419

Interesting, teams would be allowed up to 70 million in this deal
I take as teams can go over the 50/50 cap up to $70m. What I don't know yet is if the players are held to that $57m or $61m cap, and teams get to $70m with escrow deductions. That would be upwards of 22% escrow reductions this season.

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10-16-2012, 05:10 PM
  #374
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kreiders Underwear View Post
Thanks.

So it's not that bad of a deal.

On the bolded, does that include contracts that are already there, such as Redden? Will there be an amnesty buyout?
It's pretty unclear exactly how it would be implemented. Here's the quote:

Quote:
Another interesting tidbit from NHL offer... Players' Salaries for those NHLers playing in the AHL would be part of the cap.

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10-16-2012, 05:13 PM
  #375
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Depending on rev. growth, sounds like could be big drop in salary cap after 2012-13 season under proposal. Transition rule 1 year only.
https://twitter.com/CraigCustance/st...20389409763328

Its only 1 year.

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