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*OFFICIAL* Windsor Spitfires 2012-13 Season Thread (Part 4)

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10-15-2012, 09:06 AM
  #876
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Originally Posted by RayzorIsDull View Post
I am betting the bandwagon in Windsor is no worse than other places. In fact i think this bandwagon thing is an absolute load of ___ and this is why. Everybody knows the Spits are bidding for the Memorial Cup this year if they were really bandwagon fans these fans would have gotten season tickets this year to ensure the possibility of getting dibs on Memorial Cup tickets for 2014. Season ticket numbers are dwindling because costs outweigh the benefits.
Want proof of bandwagon fans?

Team does poorly at Barn = low attendance
Team starts winning at WFCU? Attendance up
Team wins Memorial Cup = high attendance
Team rebuilds = attendance suffers

Since we don't know whether we're getting the Cup, people aren't going to jump on tickets just yet. If we get it, watch ticket sales soar. Plus, I've lost count of how many people I've heard say "I've been a fan for a few years." Oh, so you didn't follow them when they weren't good? I guarantee I know others, and so do you, who feel the same as me.

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10-15-2012, 09:08 AM
  #877
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Originally Posted by RayzorIsDull View Post
I am betting the bandwagon in Windsor is no worse than other places. In fact i think this bandwagon thing is an absolute load of ___ and this is why. Everybody knows the Spits are bidding for the Memorial Cup this year if they were really bandwagon fans these fans would have gotten season tickets this year to ensure the possibility of getting dibs on Memorial Cup tickets for 2014. Season ticket numbers are dwindling because costs outweigh the benefits.
In case you didnt know,Windsor and other areas are still in a recession.Look at ALL the attendance at the arena's.Lots only attracting 2000 fans.It is called priorities.Some have other priorities,lots of minor hockey teams travel weekends also.Hockey is a LTD market like all other sports.They could drop the price in half and still not fill the arena.London still has problems filling with their hockey success.Some days during the week are worst than others.Sun aft doesn't work at many arenas.London's worst attendance day.Not sure about complaining on Windsor's performance.6-8 points separating 9 teams in the western conference.

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10-15-2012, 09:39 AM
  #878
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Originally Posted by OHLTG View Post
Want proof of bandwagon fans?

Team does poorly at Barn = low attendance
Team starts winning at WFCU? Attendance up
Team wins Memorial Cup = high attendance
Team rebuilds = attendance suffers

Since we don't know whether we're getting the Cup, people aren't going to jump on tickets just yet. If we get it, watch ticket sales soar. Plus, I've lost count of how many people I've heard say "I've been a fan for a few years." Oh, so you didn't follow them when they weren't good? I guarantee I know others, and so do you, who feel the same as me.
The Barn had atmosphere but was a very poor arena, in a bad neighbourhood that lacked necessities of the new arenas that had just come into the OHL or were on the way. There are a lot of people I know that would absolutely refuse to go to games at the Barn. Those people got season tickets in the new arena and still do to this date.

The team started winning before they got to the WFCU centre and peaked when the new arena arrived it was perfect timing for the most part. Remember for the 2 playoff runs and increased ticket prices and a total of 21 home playoff games during those years I am betting fans had to dole out an additional $500 in tickets and that's not including other expenditure parking, food/drink, apparel. All that quickly adds up and in a bad economy fans have a breaking point and they aren't going to dole out money for something that doesn't entertain them. That isn't bandwagon at all that is being smart with your money.

Since you think this is all bandwagon please tell me what you would say to the fans that aren't going right now and how you would convince them to go. Be sure to include pros and cons because nobody just wants to have sunshine blown up their __.

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10-15-2012, 09:45 AM
  #879
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Originally Posted by massey View Post
In case you didnt know,Windsor and other areas are still in a recession.Look at ALL the attendance at the arena's.Lots only attracting 2000 fans.It is called priorities.Some have other priorities,lots of minor hockey teams travel weekends also.Hockey is a LTD market like all other sports.They could drop the price in half and still not fill the arena.London still has problems filling with their hockey success.Some days during the week are worst than others.Sun aft doesn't work at many arenas.London's worst attendance day.Not sure about complaining on Windsor's performance.6-8 points separating 9 teams in the western conference.
I know and this is why I think blaming it on the bandwagon is a cop out. This is why I said people are being smart with their money. Right now they are an inconsistent team that has failed to get those extra points and have played very poorly against the teams that have played well out of the gate. It is what it is.

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10-15-2012, 10:57 AM
  #880
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Originally Posted by RayzorIsDull View Post
The Barn had atmosphere but was a very poor arena, in a bad neighbourhood that lacked necessities of the new arenas that had just come into the OHL or were on the way. There are a lot of people I know that would absolutely refuse to go to games at the Barn. Those people got season tickets in the new arena and still do to this date.

The team started winning before they got to the WFCU centre and peaked when the new arena arrived it was perfect timing for the most part. Remember for the 2 playoff runs and increased ticket prices and a total of 21 home playoff games during those years I am betting fans had to dole out an additional $500 in tickets and that's not including other expenditure parking, food/drink, apparel. All that quickly adds up and in a bad economy fans have a breaking point and they aren't going to dole out money for something that doesn't entertain them. That isn't bandwagon at all that is being smart with your money.

Since you think this is all bandwagon please tell me what you would say to the fans that aren't going right now and how you would convince them to go. Be sure to include pros and cons because nobody just wants to have sunshine blown up their __.
I never said "all", but Windsor does have bandwagon fans and I know I'm not alone in this thought.

If a team doesn't entertain you, that is partially being a bandwagon fan. You don't sit through the lean years or the questionable years. You go when you feel it's beneficial to you.

Why aren't fans going right now? The team is far too inconsistent. If the team starts winning, people take notice, and more fans come.

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10-15-2012, 11:07 AM
  #881
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Originally Posted by RayzorIsDull View Post
I know and this is why I think blaming it on the bandwagon is a cop out. This is why I said people are being smart with their money. Right now they are an inconsistent team that has failed to get those extra points and have played very poorly against the teams that have played well out of the gate. It is what it is.
Truth be told where I work we use to have season tickets. We would give them out to employees for good performance in the week but mostly it was for our sales staff to give to customers to build relationships and pretty much to say thank you for your money lol. Head office was told by sales to stop buying them cause they are "not worth it" and whenever you ask them they kind of give you the raised eyebrow and say something like "why would I give those to my customers its not like they're red wings/tigers tickets". Face the facts the CHL unfourtanely will never be recognized with the elite sporting options.

You got that and a few bang wagon jumpers or the suits that would rather waste their money on something else like the Tigers or Lions . Then you have the Lions fans and Tigers fans that are not here. Then you have the fact that the team isnt doing any better and the ticket prices stayed the same..fans aren't stupid. Then you might have those fans that are following their ethical values and not going to a "tarnished reputation". Theyre are so many possible reasons for the low attendence but all I know is if we have to have a great season this year..NO first round pick next year...if we dont finish at least in above the middle of the pack which is an improvement from last year then we are sunk..

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10-15-2012, 03:12 PM
  #882
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IMO the lack of fans has alot to do the New rules put in place in the last while.

Fans are seeing less hard hitting action.No fights,hardly any big hits.sloppy hockey that resembles more shinny and road hockey than players fighting for NHL jobs.

these new rules are going to bite them in the @ss and not just this season, league wide.


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10-15-2012, 10:05 PM
  #883
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For those who have reached their price/value thresholds, does this constant stating of that same fact change anything? If you are not filling the coiffeurs of the Spitfires or WFCU, haven't you made your point. Doesn't the constant whining about ticket prices and the cost of games get boring??? It is for the casual reader who could go back a year and see the same complaints ...

To a similar complaint from a year ago, how brutal is the powerplay? We've now got to the point that the whole design of the unit is to feed Kerby for a shot at the point??? Has anyone seen enough out of McNaughton to understand why he still gets so much PP ice time? From personnel to a lack of urgency or crispness passing the puck, what exactly is the coaching staff doing for this unit???

I like Dekort. He could be a solid workhorse. I would like to see him consistently get a game a week. Moves smoothly for a big goalie. About the only major fault I'd like to see him work on is the shoot out. Don't think he's stopped a shot yet. He gets faked out far too easily and far too often.

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10-15-2012, 10:18 PM
  #884
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Originally Posted by dereksutton9 View Post
For those who have reached their price/value thresholds, does this constant stating of that same fact change anything? If you are not filling the coiffeurs of the Spitfires or WFCU, haven't you made your point. Doesn't the constant whining about ticket prices and the cost of games get boring??? It is for the casual reader who could go back a year and see the same complaints ...

To a similar complaint from a year ago, how brutal is the powerplay? We've now got to the point that the whole design of the unit is to feed Kerby for a shot at the point??? Has anyone seen enough out of McNaughton to understand why he still gets so much PP ice time? From personnel to a lack of urgency or crispness passing the puck, what exactly is the coaching staff doing for this unit???

I like Dekort. He could be a solid workhorse. I would like to see him consistently get a game a week. Moves smoothly for a big goalie. About the only major fault I'd like to see him work on is the shoot out. Don't think he's stopped a shot yet. He gets faked out far too easily and far too often.
True I think it will come with the territory though when you see the boxscore and look at the attendance figure.

The PP was good against the Soo but they also came into the game with the worst PK in the league at 70% so they took advantage of that. Goes back to the consistency issue as the whole team. Starting to think DJ meant more to this Spits team than anybody realized. He has gone to Oshawa a team that has never really done much recently always being perennial underachievers and he has changed that culture around quite quickly. He has a guy in Lessio how has been an enigma but has turned it around this year, he has Jenner and Dal Colle playing at high levels. Starting to wonder about the coaches Boughner has around him. Jones runs the D but I don't think he has done a good job of developing guys. Think it's quite evident Jones had uber talented kids like Ellis, Fowler, Blacker, Cundari developed quite well but was still a very high pick. I don't think Devlin is going to develop into much, Bateman is questionable as well, Posa is done in 50 or so games. Drafting needs to get better as does development.

DeKort hasn't disappointed yet with the exception of the shootout but of course as some people have said here Pavelka didn't get any support in games against Guelph, OS and London. I don't see anybody running to the defence of DeKort. I guess Pavelka is just the fav of fans. I agree he should be getting a game a week, I would even give him 2 this week but I doubt you see it. This is the only stretch of 3 in 3 for the Spits this year. Spits are going to ride Pavelka all year. Was hoping for DeKort to get 35-40% of the games this year but I think it will be closer to 20-25% sadly.


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Old
10-16-2012, 12:03 AM
  #885
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True I think it will come with the territory though when you see the boxscore and look at the attendance figure.

The PP was good against the Soo but they also came into the game with the worst PK in the league at 70% so they took advantage of that. Goes back to the consistency issue as the whole team. Starting to think DJ meant more to this Spits team than anybody realized. He has gone to Oshawa a team that has never really done much recently always being perennial underachievers and he has changed that culture around quite quickly. He has a guy in Lessio how has been an enigma but has turned it around this year, he has Jenner and Dal Colle playing at high levels. Starting to wonder about the coaches Boughner has around him. Jones runs the D but I don't think he has done a good job of developing guys. Think it's quite evident Jones had uber talented kids like Ellis, Fowler, Blacker, Cundari developed quite well but was still a very high pick. I don't think Devlin is going to develop into much, Bateman is questionable as well, Posa is done in 50 or so games. Drafting needs to get better as does development.

DeKort hasn't disappointed yet with the exception of the shootout but of course as some people have said here Pavelka didn't get any support in games against Guelph, OS and London. I don't see anybody running to the defence of DeKort. I guess Pavelka is just the fav of fans. I agree he should be getting a game a week, I would even give him 2 this week but I doubt you see it. This is the only stretch of 3 in 3 for the Spits this year. Spits are going to ride Pavelka all year. Was hoping for DeKort to get 35-40% of the games this year but I think it will be closer to 20-25% sadly.
Did you not watch the games in question? The team played horribly in the games where Pavelka was shelled. When London fans are saying they feel bad for us (and I'm 100% serious about that), you KNOW the team played horribly. They're very much hot-and-cold; DeKort has had a couple of better team games in front of him, while Pavelka hasn't seen many. It has nothing to do with defending one goaltender over the other. It's pure observation.

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10-16-2012, 06:18 AM
  #886
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I feel that Dekort should get the start in Brampton even if its Windsor"s only 3 in 3 nites situation,he has earned it and has yet to lose in regulation
As for the PP Spits have scored multiple times each of the last 2 games so there is improvement regardless of the opposition

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10-16-2012, 07:53 AM
  #887
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Did you not watch the games in question? The team played horribly in the games where Pavelka was shelled. When London fans are saying they feel bad for us (and I'm 100% serious about that), you KNOW the team played horribly. They're very much hot-and-cold; DeKort has had a couple of better team games in front of him, while Pavelka hasn't seen many. It has nothing to do with defending one goaltender over the other. It's pure observation.
Yes I watched the game and Windsor was outplayed by a Niagara team that had lost 4 straight, 2nd game in 2 nights and Windsor had the prior 2 days off with their 2nd string goalie. Windsor clearly got outplayed on Sunday against Niagara.

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10-16-2012, 09:04 AM
  #888
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Yes I watched the game and Windsor was outplayed by a Niagara team that had lost 4 straight, 2nd game in 2 nights and Windsor had the prior 2 days off with their 2nd string goalie. Windsor clearly got outplayed on Sunday against Niagara.
Out-played by Niagara and out-played by Guelph, OS, and London are two very different ways of being "outplayed." The OS, London, and Guelph games were on an extreme level. The Niagara game wasn't as bad as you're making it out to be.

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10-16-2012, 12:02 PM
  #889
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Out-played by Niagara and out-played by Guelph, OS, and London are two very different ways of being "outplayed." The OS, London, and Guelph games were on an extreme level. The Niagara game wasn't as bad as you're making it out to be.
The circumstances surrounding the Niagara game is what made it bad. Niagara has a few very talented players but doesn't come close to the depth and talent they had last year. Isn't it possible that Guelph, Owen Sound and London are just that much more talented than Windsor and even with a decent performance by Windsor against those teams the Spits would still lose to those teams? OHLTG you're going quite soft right now, it seems you're quite accepting of these poor performances now. Now they have a shot to get 6 out of 8 points on this 4 game homestand if they beat Erie but I don't think anybody is really happy with the way they have played the first 3 games. Still far too many passengers on this team.

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10-16-2012, 12:43 PM
  #890
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The circumstances surrounding the Niagara game is what made it bad. Niagara has a few very talented players but doesn't come close to the depth and talent they had last year. Isn't it possible that Guelph, Owen Sound and London are just that much more talented than Windsor and even with a decent performance by Windsor against those teams the Spits would still lose to those teams? OHLTG you're going quite soft right now, it seems you're quite accepting of these poor performances now. Now they have a shot to get 6 out of 8 points on this 4 game homestand if they beat Erie but I don't think anybody is really happy with the way they have played the first 3 games. Still far too many passengers on this team.
Niagara picked up a kid in Lemmon from the Bulls who never takes a shift off. Wonder how's he's faring in Ice Dogs land?

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10-16-2012, 01:44 PM
  #891
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NHL offer Means Serious Adjustment for some OHL teams

The NHL offer today to the players will have a trickle down effect for some OHL
teams but probably not the Spitfires as we really don't have any players that are near NHL ready.

If a deal is reached shortly a number of OHL teams will lose some of their best players. Players who would have been in the NHL to begin with.

Another factor that may come into play if a deal is reached quickly has to do with the new salary cap in the NHL. NHL teams may have to scramble to keep under the cap and MAY keep OHL players (on the cheap) rather than journeyman 4th liners to stay under the cap.

The bottom line is if this NHL offer gets accepted shortly you'll see a flurry of OHL trade activity as the top teams try to fill slots vacated by players moving into the NHL. At least IMHO.

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10-16-2012, 02:58 PM
  #892
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Mack Lemmon, doesn't get the ice he wants, therefore he better play hard every shift when he gets a chance...........OVERRATED!

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10-16-2012, 03:01 PM
  #893
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Why are people talking about a Niagara player in the Windsor thread?

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10-16-2012, 03:26 PM
  #894
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The NHL offer today to the players will have a trickle down effect for some OHL
teams but probably not the Spitfires as we really don't have any players that are near NHL ready.

If a deal is reached shortly a number of OHL teams will lose some of their best players. Players who would have been in the NHL to begin with.

Another factor that may come into play if a deal is reached quickly has to do with the new salary cap in the NHL. NHL teams may have to scramble to keep under the cap and MAY keep OHL players (on the cheap) rather than journeyman 4th liners to stay under the cap.

The bottom line is if this NHL offer gets accepted shortly you'll see a flurry of OHL trade activity as the top teams try to fill slots vacated by players moving into the NHL. At least IMHO.
There would only be 1 week training camp. Teams wouldn't make a lot of trades as most teams would miss players for 2 to a max of 3 games and it's not like the OHL wouldn't make concessions and allow teams to call up players for a certain amount of time without it hurting their card situation. I think there's a lot of wishful thinking from you.

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10-16-2012, 05:04 PM
  #895
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Originally Posted by RayzorIsDull View Post
The circumstances surrounding the Niagara game is what made it bad. Niagara has a few very talented players but doesn't come close to the depth and talent they had last year. Isn't it possible that Guelph, Owen Sound and London are just that much more talented than Windsor and even with a decent performance by Windsor against those teams the Spits would still lose to those teams? OHLTG you're going quite soft right now, it seems you're quite accepting of these poor performances now. Now they have a shot to get 6 out of 8 points on this 4 game homestand if they beat Erie but I don't think anybody is really happy with the way they have played the first 3 games. Still far too many passengers on this team.
Where did I say I accepted the performances? London, OS, and Guelph were putrid performances, regardless of how much more talent the other teams had compared to Windsor. The opposition talent has no bearing on the Spitfires effort, or lack thereof. The Niagara game wasn't as bad as you're making it out to be and we almost had them, save for the shoot-out. The entire point I'm trying to make here (I almost forgot it, too) was DeKort has played well and had reasonable-to-good defence in front of him, while Pavelka has played well, but has had non-existent-to-good defence in front of him. That's why it has nothing to do with who's a fan favourite or not.

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10-16-2012, 05:23 PM
  #896
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There would only be 1 week training camp. Teams wouldn't make a lot of trades as most teams would miss players for 2 to a max of 3 games and it's not like the OHL wouldn't make concessions and allow teams to call up players for a certain amount of time without it hurting their card situation. I think there's a lot of wishful thinking from you.
What I meant to say but didn't make myself clearer has nothing to do with players away at training camp but rather players who will be given a much better chance to make NHL teams than before. Players such as Dougie Hamilton, Ryan Strome,
Olli Maatta and a few others. I think a number of people were surprised when Bailey and Fowler stuck and the opportunity for that happening again should be greater.

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10-16-2012, 05:35 PM
  #897
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What I meant to say but didn't make myself clearer has nothing to do with players away at training camp but rather players who will be given a much better chance to make NHL teams than before. Players such as Dougie Hamilton, Ryan Strome,
Olli Maatta and a few others. I think a number of people were surprised when Bailey and Fowler stuck and the opportunity for that happening again should be greater.
It is doubtful that Maata or Harrington stick with the pens, look at all the defensive prospects they have in their system. Hamilton however will most likely be gone and possibly Strome as well. What about Scheifele? Decent chance he makes the Jets.

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10-16-2012, 07:47 PM
  #898
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I have also questioned the drafting of some of these kids the last few drafts.Do we have the same scouts as we did in the Ellis,Hall etc era???

I know we didnt have great positioning in the last few drafts but i guess its hit and miss with some of them.why did we trade for the Devlin's,Bateman's even Maletta or maybe its the coaching like some have suggested.what worked for out last crew might not work for the current.

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10-16-2012, 08:24 PM
  #899
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why did we trade for the Devlin's,Bateman's even Maletta
Maletta was drafted by the spits 1st round 13th overall and after the draft Bateman was a rather high projected player by other teams, I could see why they traded for him because that was essentially two first round picks that year in Maletta and Bateman. as per Devlin I do not really see the point of that trade.

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10-16-2012, 10:18 PM
  #900
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Mack Lemmon, doesn't get the ice he wants, therefore he better play hard every shift when he gets a chance...........OVERRATED!
I agree that this should belong in the Niagara thread so this will be the last comment I make on it here. Lemmon is not overrated just as I said Smoskowitz was not a dud. If you played 3-5 minutes with no PP or PK, no 4 on 4 and averaged 20-30 seconds on your shifts you could be a solid player and still have no way to succeed. I'm happy for the Smosk who is a little older than Lemmon who will also do well if he is allowed to contribute. Let's see what happens over the next several weeks.

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