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CBA Negotiations II: This is the song that never ends...

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Old
10-16-2012, 03:58 PM
  #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by healthyscratch View Post
It is said in the owners latest proposal, THEY want one way contracts buried in the AHL(Redden) to count against the cap, but the players will fight against it.

What's the reasoning from each side?
My guess: the players know the owners will be less willing to overpay free agents if they can't get rid of the cap hit.

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10-16-2012, 04:03 PM
  #52
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So if a player had a 10 year contract and has used up 2 years, would he have 5 remaining if the players agree to this or 3?

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10-16-2012, 04:05 PM
  #53
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I would assume old contracts get grandfathered, otherwise cap hits could get unmanageable.

Edit: Bryz would have over 7.5mil, on the Pens Crosby would have something like 11 mil on his next contract. Parise and Suter would probably get paid a hilarious amount in cap terms as well. TB would be fine, Stamkos already has a 5 year contract


Last edited by Beef Invictus: 10-16-2012 at 04:11 PM.
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Old
10-16-2012, 04:05 PM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BleedOrange View Post
5 yr contracts could hold up this deal getting done...
It could also kill the Flyers ability retain all of their young players through their late 20s.

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Old
10-16-2012, 04:08 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheesesteak Invictus View Post
A contract max is necessary to reign in these 10 and 12 year deals designed to circumvent the cap.

Edit: I just realized re-alignment isn't being discussed. I guess that will be tackled after a CBA gets signed.
Or they could just do the salary cap by the current year's salary instead of the AAV.

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10-16-2012, 04:10 PM
  #56
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Ok right, makes perfect sense, thanks fellas. This ear infection is killing my brain today.

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Old
10-16-2012, 04:14 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Damaged Goods View Post
Or they could just do the salary cap by the current year's salary instead of the AAV.
That's another way to do it, but for whatever reason the owners don't seem keen on that idea. If contracts weren't guaranteed maybe they'd go for it?

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10-16-2012, 04:32 PM
  #58
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Pierre LeBrun ‏@Real_ESPNLeBrun
Am told league offer also will allow teams to go over salary cap in Year 1 - up to $70 M max - as part of transition rules

Now I am even sadder that they didn't sign Alex Semin to a 1 year contract.

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10-16-2012, 04:37 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Damaged Goods View Post
Pierre LeBrun ‏@Real_ESPNLeBrun
Am told league offer also will allow teams to go over salary cap in Year 1 - up to $70 M max - as part of transition rules

Now I am even sadder that they didn't sign Alex Semin to a 1 year contract.
Still awesome news.

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10-16-2012, 04:37 PM
  #60
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Might as well have done that Semin thing. Has there been any word on how low the cap will go?

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10-16-2012, 05:06 PM
  #61
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https://twitter.com/Real_ESPNLeBrun/...25084412977154

Quote:
Am told entry-level contracts (rookies) in new league offer is 2 years...
Also Dreger was on the radio in Canada and said there is discussion for teams trading cap space.


Last edited by Prongo: 10-16-2012 at 05:12 PM.
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Old
10-16-2012, 05:15 PM
  #62
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5 year deals are a good thing. maybe more players in their prime playing? and the quality of hockey goes up? I would like to see one "franchise" tag where a player can be extended longer than 5 years.

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10-16-2012, 05:24 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AaronTrieu View Post
5 year deals are a good thing. maybe more players in their prime playing? and the quality of hockey goes up? I would like to see one "franchise" tag where a player can be extended longer than 5 years.
I don't follow. Teams don't hang onto washed up players because of long contracts.

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Old
10-16-2012, 05:39 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prongo View Post
https://twitter.com/Real_ESPNLeBrun/...25084412977154



Also Dreger was on the radio in Canada and said there is discussion for teams trading cap space.
Now this could get interesting, especially if cash swaps are allowed. That could do a bit to address revenue sharing, but could also create a situation where lower teams have more motivation to trade their space rather than sign players and be competitive.

Get ready for swarms of "5 mil cap space for Couturier, he's overrated anyways" proposals

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10-16-2012, 06:07 PM
  #65
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Nevermind.


Last edited by flyershockey: 10-16-2012 at 06:12 PM. Reason: Just saw something else.
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Old
10-16-2012, 06:11 PM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheesesteak Invictus View Post
Now this could get interesting, especially if cash swaps are allowed. That could do a bit to address revenue sharing, but could also create a situation where lower teams have more motivation to trade their space rather than sign players and be competitive.

Get ready for swarms of "5 mil cap space for Couturier, he's overrated anyways" proposals
Why have a capped league if you can trade cap space? I understand that there will be limits on it, but it's basically the same thing.

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Old
10-16-2012, 06:22 PM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyershockey View Post
Why have a capped league if you can trade cap space? I understand that there will be limits on it, but it's basically the same thing.
Not really. The have-nots could actually be compensated for the cap space they don't use by a team that needs more. Without a cap that wouldn't happen.

This would definitely make trade deadlines a lot more interesting.

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10-16-2012, 06:23 PM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prongo View Post
https://twitter.com/Real_ESPNLeBrun/...25084412977154



Also Dreger was on the radio in Canada and said there is discussion for teams trading cap space.
Maybe he added that on the radio, but this tweet is different from tradig cap space.

@darrendreger
As we discussed on TSN's Sportscentre, NHL proposal includes the potential for retaining salary in trades.
6:59pm - 16 Oct 12

Or is that the same thing?

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Old
10-16-2012, 06:29 PM
  #69
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So if a modified version of this deal is accepted, does that mean we can still offer sheet PK Subban?

Quote:
Originally Posted by healthyscratch View Post
Maybe he added that on the radio, but this tweet is different from tradig cap space.

@darrendreger
As we discussed on TSN's Sportscentre, NHL proposal includes the potential for retaining salary in trades.
6:59pm - 16 Oct 12

Or is that the same thing?

It could essentially be the same thing if the retained salary was not associated with a cap hit.

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Old
10-16-2012, 06:31 PM
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheesesteak Invictus View Post
Not really. The have-nots could actually be compensated for the cap space they don't use by a team that needs more. Without a cap that wouldn't happen.

This would definitely make trade deadlines a lot more interesting.
But wouldn't it eliminate the even playing field that the league has wanted since the last lockout? Big market teams will trade for small market team's cap space. Or am I missing something here?

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Old
10-16-2012, 06:38 PM
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyershockey View Post
But wouldn't it eliminate the even playing field that the league has wanted since the last lockout? Big market teams will trade for small market team's cap space. Or am I missing something here?
The level playing field is currently non-existent with the way the cap has gone up; there's close to a 20 million dollar disparity between the highest spenders and the lowest. Lower teams just cannot spend to it unless they drop the cap by something like $15 million or more and either ensured it stayed in that neighborhood or revamped revenue sharing so those teams get more money.

That system would at least allow teams with extra cap space who cannot spend to the cap to get some form of asset which helps them build their team. Right now, Phoenix has 20 million in cap space. They're also in financial trouble. Why not let them get paid for that space they can't use? It helps them a lot more than just having loads of useless space.

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10-16-2012, 06:45 PM
  #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheesesteak Invictus View Post
The level playing field is currently non-existent with the way the cap has gone up; there's close to a 20 million dollar disparity between the highest spenders and the lowest. Lower teams just cannot spend to it unless they drop the cap by something like $15 million or more and either ensured it stayed in that neighborhood or revamped revenue sharing so those teams get more money.

That system would at least allow teams with extra cap space who cannot spend to the cap to get some form of asset which helps them build their team. Right now, Phoenix has 20 million in cap space. They're also in financial trouble. Why not let them get paid for that space they can't use? It helps them a lot more than just having loads of useless space.
I see. I started to think about it and it does make more sense than previously thought. I actually shudder at the thought of what Homer is going to do now that he can just trade for more cap space. If he could barely handle the old cap system, this one is going to be way over his head.

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10-16-2012, 06:55 PM
  #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyershockey View Post
I see. I started to think about it and it does make more sense than previously thought. I actually shudder at the thought of what Homer is going to do now that he can just trade for more cap space. If he could barely handle the old cap system, this one is going to be way over his head.
Yeah...if this new system does come to fruition there are probably going to be Holmgren growing pains. This could work out wodnerfully for us though...Pronger's cap hit causing problems in the offseason? No problem, throw some money to Dallas.

I'm hoping Dreger is right about this.

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Old
10-16-2012, 07:08 PM
  #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyershockey View Post
I see. I started to think about it and it does make more sense than previously thought. I actually shudder at the thought of what Homer is going to do now that he can just trade for more cap space. If he could barely handle the old cap system, this one is going to be way over his head.
It's not just Holmgren and a phone you know?

And please remember that his trade record is actually bloomin' fantastic.

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10-16-2012, 07:29 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by 1865 View Post
It's not just Holmgren and a phone you know?

And please remember that his trade record is actually bloomin' fantastic.
I'm a pretty big supporter of Homer, so I don't get why you're getting all bent out of shape. His trade record is pretty remarkable, but his smaller signings have created some cap difficulties during his tenure. I'm aware that he's not he only one calling the shots, but the responsibility ultimately lies on him to make the smart and savvy moves. Like Invictus said, the new cap setup could work to his benefit as well. If he runs into a problem like the Pronger contract, he can ship it off to a another team.

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