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When will this lockout end? (all lockout talk here)

View Poll Results: When will the lockout end?
Sometime between Oct-nov 49 18.08%
Sometime between Dec-jan 90 33.21%
Season canceled 132 48.71%
Voters: 271. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
10-16-2012, 04:06 PM
  #251
syz
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Some immediate reactions from some players doesn't sound great.

They just don't want to lose anything.

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Old
10-16-2012, 04:11 PM
  #252
jadeddog
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Quote:
Originally Posted by syz View Post
Some immediate reactions from some players doesn't sound great.

They just don't want to lose anything.
would you expect anything else from them... they all said the same thing in 2004 right up until the hours before accepting the new deal... they will say that the deal is terrible right up until they sign off on it, and even then they will say they gave up way too much

we're talking about people who say that they "lost" the last CBA, but then made tons and tons of money on it and were more than willing to keep playing under it, lol.... doesn't make a lick of sense

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10-16-2012, 04:18 PM
  #253
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Originally Posted by GMofOilers View Post
Says next games arent till the 19th?
germany is 3 days ahead of us........

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10-16-2012, 04:19 PM
  #254
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Originally Posted by RNH 93 rulz View Post
today was a normal game day in germany. my hometown team got jamie benn on the roster for the lockout, he was a healthy scratch. briere and giroux are playing for berlin atm, same thing there, healthy scratches... could be a sign...
Yeah, sure man I already responded to you in the Flyers board and I say it again. Stop making stuff up. There were no games schedulded nor played today in either DEL, tier-2 or tier-3 division leagues. Just stop it!

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Old
10-16-2012, 04:27 PM
  #255
SK13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by syz View Post
Some immediate reactions from some players doesn't sound great.

They just don't want to lose anything.
Which immediate reactions? All Bissonette hears is "escrow". Boyes, Iginla and Tanguay have all had positive reactions to the proposal and the movement it represents.

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10-16-2012, 05:00 PM
  #256
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Originally Posted by jadeddog View Post
would you expect anything else from them... they all said the same thing in 2004 right up until the hours before accepting the new deal... they will say that the deal is terrible right up until they sign off on it, and even then they will say they gave up way too much

we're talking about people who say that they "lost" the last CBA, but then made tons and tons of money on it and were more than willing to keep playing under it, lol.... doesn't make a lick of sense
They did lose the last one though, I mean if Bobby Holik could get $9 million/year on the old CBA then just imagine what players would be getting now.

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Old
10-16-2012, 05:31 PM
  #257
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SK13 View Post
Which immediate reactions? All Bissonette hears is "escrow". Boyes, Iginla and Tanguay have all had positive reactions to the proposal and the movement it represents.
Steve Montador has been whining/complaining saying he doesn't expect players to accept

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10-16-2012, 05:34 PM
  #258
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Originally Posted by Halibut View Post
They did lose the last one though, I mean if Bobby Holik could get $9 million/year on the old CBA then just imagine what players would be getting now.
Which is also why I don't side with the players.

They're getting these super inflated salaries, not because the league as a whole is that healthy, but because the Leafs/Habs/Rangers make super-inflated profits.

I hope the owners "win" again. The players will get paid in the long run either way despite their whining.

The idea that NHL players deserve 57 percent of revenue when NFL/NBA players don't get that is freaking laughable too. Of the entire lot of NHL players none of them are as marketable as LeBron James or Tom Brady's pinkie, yet they believe they should earn more of the league revenue? The NHL is driven by team/fanbase sales not individual superstar players. Sidney Crosby has the personality of a cardboard box for crying out loud, lol. Saturday Night Live is not going to be calling him anytime soon to host.

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10-16-2012, 05:38 PM
  #259
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackhawkswincup View Post
Steve Montador has been whining/complaining saying he doesn't expect players to accept
I'll wait to hear from some important players first.

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Old
10-16-2012, 06:03 PM
  #260
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T-Funk View Post
I'll wait to hear from some important players first.
hah! well, after seeing some of the interviews on TSN's webpage, I'm fairly optimistic the players will push forward with some real negotiations.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soundwave View Post
Which is also why I don't side with the players.

They're getting these super inflated salaries, not because the league as a whole is that healthy, but because the Leafs/Habs/Rangers make super-inflated profits.

I hope the owners "win" again. The players will get paid in the long run either way despite their whining.

The idea that NHL players deserve 57 percent of revenue when NFL/NBA players don't get that is freaking laughable too. Of the entire lot of NHL players none of them are as marketable as LeBron James or Tom Brady's pinkie, yet they believe they should earn more of the league revenue? The NHL is driven by team/fanbase sales not individual superstar players. Sidney Crosby has the personality of a cardboard box for crying out loud, lol. Saturday Night Live is not going to be calling him anytime soon to host.
I agree; while I think the owners lowballing early on and crying total foul like they did was over the top, I found the Players' stance on not budging at all on their "dollar value" share of revenue incredible ridiculous. I hope they end up settling on the 50/50 split and just hammer out the tweaks that'll make the deal palatable for the players and owners.

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Old
10-16-2012, 06:53 PM
  #261
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Quote:
Bob McKenzie‏@TSNBobMcKenzie

Not only is NHL proposing 5 year limit on player contract length, it's proposing the yearly salary variance can't be more than 5 per cent
Thats pretty intresting. Really trying hard to get rid of the ridiculous long, front-loaded contracts.

The owners are the ones who gave them out to begin with but thats a whole new debate.

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10-16-2012, 07:03 PM
  #262
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Quote:
Bob McKenzie‏@TSNBobMcKenzie

NHL's other big systemic concern is curtailing big-money 2nd contracts coming out of entry level. Proposal has 3 mechanisms aimed at that.

1. Entry level would go from 3 to 2 yrs. 2. Salary arb eligibility would go from 4th to 5th yr. 3. UFA goes 7/27 (service/age) to 8/28

If player comes out of entry level 1 yr earlier, is 1 yr further away from salary arb and UFA, less pressure on teams to give big contract.
The more I hear, the more I like, and the more the PA likely wont go for.

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Old
10-16-2012, 07:08 PM
  #263
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T-Funk View Post
I'll wait to hear from some important players first.
To be fair Monty is Hawks player rep and has been one of the most involved of players thru entire lockout

He is a hardliner in union which concerns me because the hardliners will be most vocal

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10-16-2012, 07:08 PM
  #264
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The UFA age bumping up a year to age 28 would really help us a lot with Yakupov/RNH I think.

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10-16-2012, 08:16 PM
  #265
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Pierre lebrun tweeted:
Pa said they'll meet with nhl tomorrow afternoon or thursday

He is told elc in new deal are 2 years
im not sure i like this however i dont think it'll be applied to guys like yak because his conteact is already signed

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Old
10-16-2012, 08:21 PM
  #266
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Just get this done! I need some hockey in my life

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10-16-2012, 08:54 PM
  #267
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Stupid question: a condensed season means just adding makeup games to the existing schedule starting in November, or a brand new schedule?

I assume the former.

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10-16-2012, 08:56 PM
  #268
SK13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dustrock View Post
Stupid question: a condensed season means just adding makeup games to the existing schedule starting in November, or a brand new schedule?

I assume the former.
Same schedule, but added dates along the way (and slightly elongated to the end of April, instead of mid-April as per usual).

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Old
10-16-2012, 09:00 PM
  #269
RipsADrive
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Sounds like there could be some interesting stuff for us regarding our young players should the owner's proposal go through as is.

Recently saw clarified on the Business board that the ELC's could be 2 years or extend to 4 if the play doesn't play full seasons. What qualifies as a full season I'm not sure.

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10-16-2012, 09:07 PM
  #270
SK13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RipsADrive View Post
Sounds like there could be some interesting stuff for us regarding our young players should the owner's proposal go through as is.

Recently saw clarified on the Business board that the ELC's could be 2 years or extend to 4 if the play doesn't play full seasons. What qualifies as a full season I'm not sure.
I'm sure it has something to do with the 9 game line in the sand.

I don't think it impacts us anyway. Any existing contract is unlikely to be altered.

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Old
10-16-2012, 09:16 PM
  #271
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SK13 View Post
I'm sure it has something to do with the 9 game line in the sand.

I don't think it impacts us anyway. Any existing contract is unlikely to be altered.
I think you're right and that's good to hear.

If RFA is indeed extended by a year things could actually work out in our favour although it means we bought 1 of Hall's UFA years for no reason. Not that big of a deal though.

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Old
10-16-2012, 09:22 PM
  #272
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joestevens29 View Post
obviously you haven't been following as the players were the ones that wanted the system fixed.
You must be thinking of another lockout.

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Old
10-16-2012, 09:41 PM
  #273
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If the RFA/UFA system ends up like this, the Oilers are laughing. Yakupov's deal is signed, so he won't lose a year from his ELC like next year's 1st overall will, RNH's entry level contract won't be affected, and they (along with Schultz and the rest of the Oilers' prospects) will both be Oilers' property until they're 28.

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Old
10-16-2012, 09:47 PM
  #274
SK13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bangers View Post
If the RFA/UFA system ends up like this, the Oilers are laughing. Yakupov's deal is signed, so he won't lose a year from his ELC like next year's 1st overall will, RNH's entry level contract won't be affected, and they (along with Schultz and the rest of the Oilers' prospects) will both be Oilers' property until they're 28.
Well you are right about the Oilers having Yakupov for one more year of ELC, the changes to contracts actually do not necessarily favor the Oilers.

Think about it. A rookie signs a 2 year ELC, needs to play 8 years to hit UFA status. So he needs a six year deal to push him there after his ELC, only contracts are capped at 5 years with very limited loading (only 5% increments year-over-year is permitted under the current proposal).

In reality, the Oilers will likely have to pay Yakupov millions more and push him to free agency BECAUSE he's on a 3 year ELC. More bargaining power.

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Old
10-17-2012, 12:11 AM
  #275
s7ark
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Some more interesting info from Bob McKenzie about the NHL offer.

Oldest at the bottom

Quote:
Bob McKenzie ‏@TSNBobMcKenzie

Sorry I lied. Important note on back-diving contracts (BDC). If player traded, then later in deal retires, original club on hook for cap hit
Quote:
Bob McKenzie Bob McKenzie ‏@TSNBobMcKenzie

Or so I've been led to believe. It's late, stuff is complicated, imagine all details likely to be out there tomorrow. G'nite. #andgoodluck
Quote:
Bob McKenzie Bob McKenzie ‏@TSNBobMcKenzie

In other words, the benefit clubs thought they were getting by reducing AAV with back-diving deals/bogus end yrs would be reduced/negated.
Quote:
Bob McKenzie Bob McKenzie ‏@TSNBobMcKenzie

Any existing deal in excess of 5 yrs would carry cap hit in every year of contract, even if player were to retire with year(s) left.
Quote:
Bob McKenzie Bob McKenzie ‏@TSNBobMcKenzie

One of most interesting aspects of NHL proposal is aimed at punishing clubs more than players, with regard to existing back-diving deals.
Quote:
Bob McKenzie Bob McKenzie ‏@TSNBobMcKenzie

Because NHL players buried in minors (Redden etc) would count against cap, re-entry waivers would no longer exist.
Quote:
Bob McKenzie Bob McKenzie ‏@TSNBobMcKenzie

Every NHL team would be eligible to receive revenue sharing but top 10 $ clubs responsible for contributing 50 per cent of $200M pool.
Quote:
Bob McKenzie Bob McKenzie ‏@TSNBobMcKenzie

Each club, in any given year, tho, would be subject to a 2 contract and/or $5M limit in terms of retaining salary.
Quote:
Bob McKenzie Bob McKenzie ‏@TSNBobMcKenzie

On trading of cap space/retaining salary, it would be limited to $3M for each contract year left or 50 per cent of AAV, whichever is less
Quote:
Bob McKenzie Bob McKenzie ‏@TSNBobMcKenzie

The floor for this season would be $43.9M and cap would be $59.9M altho in Year 1 teams could still spend to $70.2M but only in Year 1.
Quote:
Bob McKenzie Bob McKenzie ‏@TSNBobMcKenzie

Some of the following may be repetitive but more detail is emerging on NHL proposal, so here is some info:

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