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Old
10-16-2012, 12:03 PM
  #51
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Originally Posted by guyzeur View Post
Top 3 winger maybe? 30 teams x 3 = 90 forwards

13th (35) in goals and 58th (25) in points, about the same stats as Correy Perry (27-23).
Didn't want to start an argument about when or not MM was a top line forward, so I left it open. I will say though, that I doubt he exceeds or even meets those numbers again in his career

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10-16-2012, 01:50 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by DropkickQuinn View Post
Didn't want to start an argument about when or not MM was a top line forward, so I left it open. I will say though, that I doubt he exceeds or even meets those numbers again in his career
35 goals, if healthy, will 100% be done again. I could hit 35 goals playing with Spezza.

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Old
10-16-2012, 02:02 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by BonkTastic View Post
I don't want to comment on the value , but I want to point out that the Sens farm team is absolutely packed with prospects. The organization is probably as deep as it's ever been in it's history. Sens aren't interested in a quantity-for-quality deal, unless it's us sending the quantity and getting the quality in return.
What about something surrounding Yandle? Keep in mind his worth to us is not only the fact that he is a talented offensive defenseman but also because he loves Phoenix. I would almost never want to trade him because he could be the second coming of Shane Doan lol. Ill likely also get flack for mentioning his name in this proposal.

Maybe Yandle for Michalek, Noesen, O'Brien, and Mark Stone? This will give Phoenix a top end forward talent and some good forward prospects to help keep us going strong. Ottawa gets a better and younger defenseman to replace Gonchar.

Hows that for a quantity for quality trade?

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10-16-2012, 02:11 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by YotesFan47 View Post

Maybe Yandle for Michalek, Noesen, O'Brien, and Mark Stone? This will give Phoenix a top end forward talent and some good forward prospects to help keep us going strong. Ottawa gets a better and younger defenseman to replace Gonchar.

Hows that for a quantity for quality trade?
That's absolutely awful for Ottawa. This coming from a guy who loveeeeessss himself some Yandle.

Michalek+ a little something... sure, that may work. But not Michalek + two of our top forward prospects and our 4th line center.

There isn't a huge difference, value wise, between Michalek and Yandle.

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10-16-2012, 02:26 PM
  #55
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Actually I figured the value would be pretty close here. The conversation is going on about a player who hasn't played a single NHL game yet and could end up nothing more than a 7th dman somewhere (though highly unlikely) for Michalek alone. I'm not saying Michalek's value is awful or anything but Ottawa fans must be just as high on Gormley as Phoenix fans are.

Gauging from that thought, I figured I would offer an already top NHL dman in Yandle to change it to Phoenix giving "more" quality, hints the quote in my earlier post. Also around HF the standard is that defenseman are worth more than forwards. Noesen is the only other player I thought Ottawa considered a major piece, O'brien and Stone seemed to me that they wouldn't hold anywhere near as much value.

Bottom line, I understand now that I was asking too much, what if we removed O'brien and Stone from the proposal? Would that help in your eyes to even things out?

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10-16-2012, 03:04 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by goldy2266 View Post
Ottawa is still a team in transition. I don't beleive they are cup contenders yet, but when they put all of the pieces together they will have one hell of a good team in a couple years. They have an embarsment of riches coming down the pipe line for all of their forward lines. With the prospect pool Ottawa is drawing from I would not worry about 20-30 goals that have to be made up after loosing MM
Ottawa's drafted very well in it's 20 years history and yet, they've only drafted 16 players who've ever had a 40+ point season. Most other teams have worse records. That's the problem with prospectitis; it sets unrealistic expectations. Ottawa already needs to fill 4 other Top-6 forwards slots with player who prove they can produce. Brandon Gormley is way too far from proving himself as a potential top pairing D-man to accept in trade for Michalek right now. Becoming half as good as Michalek has been an achievement for most 13th overall picks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DropkickQuinn View Post
Didn't want to start an argument about when or not MM was a top line forward, so I left it open. I will say though, that I doubt he exceeds or even meets those numbers again in his career
66 pts, 55 pts, 57 pts, 60 pts... all in the past 6 seasons.

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Old
10-16-2012, 03:16 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Jakob Silfverberg View Post
35 goals, if healthy, will 100% be done again. I could hit 35 goals playing with Spezza.
That's not a good thing though, the Yotes don't have Spezza.

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Old
10-16-2012, 03:39 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Jakob Silfverberg View Post
35 goals, if healthy, will 100% be done again. I could hit 35 goals playing with Spezza.
Dude, the guy hit 35 exactly, while leading the league in empty net goals in the process.

He had a career year and can hardly handle the puck... he's not hitting 35 ever again unless Spezza hits 90 which won't happen.

oh and for not answering my PMs

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Old
10-16-2012, 05:32 PM
  #59
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Michalek is a good, solid top 6 forward; that being sid his awful playoff track record weighs heavily against him.

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10-16-2012, 05:46 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by YotesFan47 View Post
Actually I figured the value would be pretty close here. The conversation is going on about a player who hasn't played a single NHL game yet and could end up nothing more than a 7th dman somewhere (though highly unlikely) for Michalek alone. I'm not saying Michalek's value is awful or anything but Ottawa fans must be just as high on Gormley as Phoenix fans are.

Gauging from that thought, I figured I would offer an already top NHL dman in Yandle to change it to Phoenix giving "more" quality, hints the quote in my earlier post. Also around HF the standard is that defenseman are worth more than forwards. Noesen is the only other player I thought Ottawa considered a major piece, O'brien and Stone seemed to me that they wouldn't hold anywhere near as much value.

Bottom line, I understand now that I was asking too much, what if we removed O'brien and Stone from the proposal? Would that help in your eyes to even things out?
The value of Michalek + Noesen for Yandle is fair, but I don't think Ottawa's in a position to trade Michalek for anything other than an upgrade up front. Of course this is entirely contradictory to the premise of the OP...

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Old
10-16-2012, 05:59 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
Done and done. Michalek is just a regular 2nd line winger... and I like that the Sens get even younger.

Cowen - Karlsson
Gormley - Ceci

stacked
OEL - Klesla
Yandle - Morris
Stone - Gormley

Looks good to me

oh yeah... and

Goncharov
Murphy
Rundblad
Schlemko



Quote:
Not for Rundblad though... love his skill level but he was just awful last year. Worst defensive player to play in the NHL last year, hands down.
[/quote]

Where did he come into this? He produced better with his short stint in Phoenix (albeit 6 games) and then went to the minors. He's 22... I think we'll take our time on him.


Quote:
Originally Posted by The Roffler View Post
we dont want your good players and prospects anyways.

Haha, we don't want your offensive prospects either! Offence wins games, defence wins championships.

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Old
10-16-2012, 06:20 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by The Brewmeister View Post

Haha, we don't want your offensive prospects either! Offence wins games, defence wins championships.
LA disagrees with you

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10-16-2012, 07:18 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by Qward View Post
LA disagrees with you
Why? They were excellent defensively and didnt have many huge offensive nights other than game six of the SCF

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Old
10-16-2012, 08:37 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by YotesFan47 View Post
What about something surrounding Yandle? Keep in mind his worth to us is not only the fact that he is a talented offensive defenseman but also because he loves Phoenix. I would almost never want to trade him because he could be the second coming of Shane Doan lol. Ill likely also get flack for mentioning his name in this proposal.

Maybe Yandle for Michalek, Noesen, O'Brien, and Mark Stone? This will give Phoenix a top end forward talent and some good forward prospects to help keep us going strong. Ottawa gets a better and younger defenseman to replace Gonchar.

Hows that for a quantity for quality trade?
Ouch. tahts Turrible.

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Old
10-16-2012, 09:38 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by trentmccleary View Post
On what team?

He's been 55th-75th in scoring amongst forwards 4 of the past 6 years (66, 55, 57 & 60 points).

Our team has 1 proven Top-6 forward besides Michalek; Spezza.

25yo Latendresse = career high of 40 points.
26yo Greening = career high of 37 points.
23yo K. Turris = career high of 29 points.
26yo P. Regin = career high of 29 points.

Total Number of 30+ point seasons by any current Ottawa Senator (excluding Spezza/Alfie) = 3

- 2010-11 Latendresse = 40 points
- 2011-12 Greening = 37 points
- 2005-06 C. Neil = 33 points

Do the two of you truly comprehend how much we can't make make this deal? .
1-It's not just about the present, it's about the future. Last I checked, the Sens are nowhere near competing for the Cup. Marc frikin Methot is on the 1st pair. Marc frikin Methot. The Sens are in a youth movement. So vets should be traded for youngsters to keep building. Michalek has 5-7 years as a 2nd line winger left, while Gormley has 15 years as a top 4 D left.

2-The Sens have a bigger need on defense. Marc frikin Methot is on the 1st pair. Marc frikin Methot. I doubt you of all people wants to run with that long term. The Sens have like 8 winger prospects or more with top 6 potential. I think we can find 3 or 4 scorers from that especially with the quality prospects that they are. The Sens have never had a prospect pool and young players as good as this. A bunch of players who haven't had 30 point seasons can and will have them.

3- It's not just about points. Points alone don't determine how good a player is. Michalek being 55-75 in scoring doesn't mean he's the 55-75th best forward, not even close. (and he's only been that good ONCE out of 3 seasons in Ottawa, forgive my lack of belief in him).

4-Michalek spent the vast majority of his ice time with Karlsson and Spezza... therefore his stats appear better than that of just a regular 2nd line winger.

5-Michalek needs a center like Spezza to produce... a puck handling centre. Because he's horrible at handling the puck himself.

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10-16-2012, 10:07 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
1-It's not just about the present, it's about the future. Last I checked, the Sens are nowhere near competing for the Cup. Marc frikin Methot is on the 1st pair. Marc frikin Methot. The Sens are in a youth movement. So vets should be traded for youngsters to keep building. Michalek has 5-7 years as a 2nd line winger left, while Gormley has 15 years as a top 4 D left.
If Gormley even becomes a top-4 dman...
Quote:
5-Michalek needs a center like Spezza to produce... a puck handling centre. Because he's horrible at handling the puck himself.
and Spezza needs a winger like Michalek.

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Old
10-16-2012, 10:08 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by trentmccleary View Post
They're only prospects right now. Half of them will be playing the Norwegian league in 5 years if we're lucky. If we're unlucky, more of them will.



On what team?

He's been 55th-75th in scoring amongst forwards 4 of the past 6 years (66, 55, 57 & 60 points).

Our team has 1 proven Top-6 forward besides Michalek; Spezza.

25yo Latendresse = career high of 40 points.
26yo Greening = career high of 37 points.
23yo K. Turris = career high of 29 points.
26yo P. Regin = career high of 29 points.

Total Number of 30+ point seasons by any current Ottawa Senator (excluding Spezza/Alfie) = 3

- 2010-11 Latendresse = 40 points
- 2011-12 Greening = 37 points
- 2005-06 C. Neil = 33 points

Do the two of you truly comprehend how much we can't make make this deal?



Phillips was a #3 on a 100+ point a season playoff teams for a decade. Teams that typically included Redden and Chara.

Methot has been a #4-5 for a bottom feeder on teams that typically included... uhh, other defensemen whose names I can't quite recall.

I hope that he can replace Phillips, but I'm not going to hold my breath.



... and is also 225 lbs.
Made it to page 2 and couldn't believe no one had brought this up. Well said.

We absolutely cannot be trading Michalek away for (potential future) help on the bank end.

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10-16-2012, 10:34 PM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Roffler View Post
If Gormley even becomes a top-4 dman...
he will be.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Roffler View Post
and Spezza needs a winger like Michalek.
no. no he doesn't.

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Old
10-16-2012, 10:35 PM
  #69
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Made it to page 2 and couldn't believe no one had brought this up. Well said.

We absolutely cannot be trading Michalek away for (potential future) help on the bank end.
why not??

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10-16-2012, 10:38 PM
  #70
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why not??
The team still has to be competitive?

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Old
10-16-2012, 10:52 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
1-It's not just about the present, it's about the future. Last I checked, the Sens are nowhere near competing for the Cup. Marc frikin Methot is on the 1st pair. Marc frikin Methot. The Sens are in a youth movement. So vets should be traded for youngsters to keep building. Michalek has 5-7 years as a 2nd line winger left, while Gormley has 15 years as a top 4 D left.

Why are you penciling him in the top 4? Has he played 1 NHL game as of yet?

2-The Sens have a bigger need on defense. Marc frikin Methot is on the 1st pair. Marc frikin Methot. I doubt you of all people wants to run with that long term. The Sens have like 8 winger prospects or more with top 6 potential. I think we can find 3 or 4 scorers from that especially with the quality prospects that they are. The Sens have never had a prospect pool and young players as good as this. A bunch of players who haven't had 30 point seasons can and will have them.

Your hate for Methot is so evident and mind blowing. We have 8 winger prospects which have proven exactly what in the NHL?

3- It's not just about points. Points alone don't determine how good a player is. Michalek being 55-75 in scoring doesn't mean he's the 55-75th best forward, not even close. (and he's only been that good ONCE out of 3 seasons in Ottawa, forgive my lack of belief in him).

Top 6 forwards main priority is to score. What other forwards on the team have proven they can do that?

4-Michalek spent the vast majority of his ice time with Karlsson and Spezza... therefore his stats appear better than that of just a regular 2nd line winger.

So did Greening, his stats aren't overwhelmingly good. You arent guaranteed points just because you play with good players

5-Michalek needs a center like Spezza to produce... a puck handling centre. Because he's horrible at handling the puck himself.

And Spezza needs a scorer like Michalek (like another poster had said)

in bold

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Old
10-16-2012, 11:00 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by 11Alfredsson View Post
in bold
1-Gormley is terrific prospect that should have went higher in the draft. He has top pair potential, top 4 is his low end. Being conservative.

2-It's not personal with Methot. He's a classic 3rd pair defender. He's 27 and has never been more than that. Mind blowing that people think he can be simply by switching to their hometown team.
8 winger prospects who are very good. Like I said I'll take my chances with developing 3 or 4 of those.

3-They are skilled, I'll take my chances with development.

4-Zibanejad, Silfverberg, etc are more skilled than Greening

5-A guy who can put the puck in the net, not necessarily like Michalek, is helpful to Spezza yes. Like I said many times, I like our young players.



You didn't address the fact that defense is a bigger need at the moment. I guess you agree.

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10-16-2012, 11:08 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
??

says the guy who completely tanked his Leafs in gm connected


Why do they need to be competitive?

Also Karlsson and to a lesser extent Spezza stir the drink in Ottawa, not Michalek.
You see, there's this thing called "marketing"...

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10-16-2012, 11:10 PM
  #74
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You see, there's this thing called "marketing"...
Erik Karlsson. That is all.


Milan Michalek's presence or absence won't make me watch games or not. Not even close.

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10-16-2012, 11:13 PM
  #75
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??

says the guy who completely tanked his Leafs in gm connected
They were gonna lose no matter what, so i took advantage of it lol

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