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2012 MLB Thread Part III

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Old
10-16-2012, 11:38 AM
  #651
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kyle evs48 View Post
Because Cano and Granderson's salaries combined don't equal A-Rod's. It's like Kovalchuk catching blame for the Devils' shortcomings. People instinctively point their finger at the guy who gets paid.
That's understandable, but it doesn't mean it's right. The finger pointing should begin with the players that had the most profound impact on the Yankees' success in the regular season. Cano's 0 for twenty whatever has a bigger relative impact than Arod's slump.

With that said, Cano is making decent contact. He's just hitting the ball right at fielders.

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10-16-2012, 11:42 AM
  #652
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Originally Posted by Feed Me A Stray Cat View Post
Don't really care ball players do that all the time. Know of several first hand accounts.

Why is Arod continually getting lambasted when players like Cano and Granderson have been just as bad? They're also not the ones coming off an injury that severely hampers hitting ability.
Because players like Cano and Granderson have produced in the post season on a consistent basis for the Yankees, Alex Rodriguez has not - now that doesn't excuse how poorly Cano and Granderson have done, especially the no hits in 26 abs with Cano, however A-Rod failing to produce is beyond old at this point, at least we've had success in the playoffs in more than one season from Cano and Granderson

The funny thing is there was a stink last week about how Swisher and Jeter got pissed at Baltimore's police officer stationed in the Yankees dugout asking them for autographs during the game

Then you have A-Rod a week later in an extra innings playoff game trying to get numbers from a couple chicks sitting near the dugout

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10-16-2012, 12:02 PM
  #653
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Originally Posted by Feed Me A Stray Cat View Post

Why is Arod continually getting lambasted when players like Cano and Granderson have been just as bad? They're also not the ones coming off an injury that severely hampers hitting ability.
Because A-Rod is the highest paid player in baseball, a perennial loser/choke artist, and at one point he was considered the greatest player of this generation.

Also, those guys are getting unlucky. They're putting the ball in play, where anything can happen. Errors, lucky bounces, sacrifices, etc. A-Rod is striking out and not doing ANYTHING productive.

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10-16-2012, 12:56 PM
  #654
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Originally Posted by Wingman77 View Post
and people wonder why this ******* sucks in the post season to pull this **** off in the regular season would have been ridiculous, but the playoffs? are you kidding? if this doesn't describe a-rod to a T, I'm not sure what does

Get the **** out of New York

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/r...#ixzz29SzpwysK
I can't say I'm surprised by that. He's always been a rake, and that's not going to stop in the playoffs.

But there is a bit of a double standard here: if he was producing, nobody would care what he does in the dugout.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kyle evs48 View Post
Because Cano and Granderson's salaries combined don't equal A-Rod's. It's like Kovalchuk catching blame for the Devils' shortcomings. People instinctively point their finger at the guy who gets paid.
Fair or not, this is the reason why. He has the great contract, so he has great expectations.

Cano and Granderson also have previous achievements and reputation on their side. These slumps are not perceived to be normal for them. For ARod, the perception is that this is routine. Again, fair or not, that's what is happening here.

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10-16-2012, 01:12 PM
  #655
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But there is a bit of a double standard here: if he was producing, nobody would care what he does in the dugout.
It's not really a double standard, per se. Well, it kind of is, but I wouldn't really call it that.

If he's producing and having a great time, there's no problem. But he's not producing, the Yankees are 3-4 this postseason, and he seems to be having a blast.

Just a terrible attitude to have. It shows how dedicated he is to winning.

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10-16-2012, 04:43 PM
  #656
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Swisher and A-Rod out of the lineup tonight, Nunez at SS

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10-16-2012, 04:55 PM
  #657
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wingman77 View Post
Because players like Cano and Granderson have produced in the post season on a consistent basis for the Yankees, Alex Rodriguez has not - now that doesn't excuse how poorly Cano and Granderson have done, especially the no hits in 26 abs with Cano, however A-Rod failing to produce is beyond old at this point, at least we've had success in the playoffs in more than one season from Cano and Granderson
The idea that Arod has failed to produce in the playoffs is flat out wrong. He has a better career postseason OPS than Jeter, the man who is known as a playoff legend. You can argue that Arod has under performed from his true capabilities but he certainly hasn't been bad career-wise.

Cano has also been pretty bad in the postseason. 226 / 273 / 431 sucks for a player of Cano's stature. There is no possible way you can call Cano a consistent postseason producer and Arod a choker with a straight face.

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10-16-2012, 04:58 PM
  #658
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Originally Posted by Feed Me A Stray Cat View Post
The idea that Arod has failed to produce in the playoffs is flat out wrong. He has a better career postseason OPS than Jeter,
Shouldn't a slugger always have a higher OPS than a contact hitter

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10-16-2012, 04:58 PM
  #659
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Originally Posted by Saugus View Post
Cano and Granderson also have previous achievements and reputation on their side. These slumps are not perceived to be normal for them. For ARod, the perception is that this is routine. Again, fair or not, that's what is happening here.
Previous achievements? Can you name some?

Cano and Granderson have never had a playoffs like Arod's 2009 performance. Arod has a much better postseason OPS than Cano and has about 20 points on Granderson.

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10-16-2012, 05:03 PM
  #660
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Originally Posted by DatBoyJPP View Post
Shouldn't a slugger always have a higher OPS than a contact hitter
It depends. If you're a contact hitter who bats .300 and does't ever walk and has no power, then yes. On the flip side, if you're a power hitter who hits 30 home runs but has a horrendous average and/or doesn't walk, then no.

If you want a more robust indicator, wRC+ and wOBA have Jeter and Arod has identical postseason career hitters. The difference is that Jeter's postseason numbers are identical to his regular season numbers, whereas Arod's are well below his regular season numbers. As I said, you can say he under performs, but the idea that he's a choker who is of no value in the playoffs is simply incorrect.

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10-16-2012, 05:26 PM
  #661
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Originally Posted by Feed Me A Stray Cat View Post
The idea that Arod has failed to produce in the playoffs is flat out wrong. He has a better career postseason OPS than Jeter, the man who is known as a playoff legend. You can argue that Arod has under performed from his true capabilities but he certainly hasn't been bad career-wise.

Cano has also been pretty bad in the postseason. 226 / 273 / 431 sucks for a player of Cano's stature. There is no possible way you can call Cano a consistent postseason producer and Arod a choker with a straight face.
No he doesn't, they have the exact same career OPS in the playoffs

Are you trying to say that because of one stat that A-Rod has better than Jeter in the post season (who just so happens to be the career post season leader in hits and total bases among plenty of others) that A-Rod is comparable to Jeter in the post season? Sounds just like the Mets coming up with that stat that Harvey struck out more guys than Nolan Ryan so there should therefore be hope that he'll be a stud

Cano has played in 6 full post seasons and has 3 .300+ BA post seasons compared to A-Rod's 10 full post seasons with 4 .300+ BA post seasons and you know what, quite frankly that sucks for a player of A-Rod's stature, the $30m a year player compared to a player who nearly has had the same amount strong BA post seasons and didn't reach his current stature until 3 years ago, so don't give me that, what a crock of ****

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10-16-2012, 05:29 PM
  #662
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wingman77 View Post
Swisher and A-Rod out of the lineup tonight, Nunez at SS
Who's replacing them?

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10-16-2012, 05:31 PM
  #663
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Who's replacing them?
Chavez and Gardner, Gardner leading off

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10-16-2012, 05:42 PM
  #664
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Originally Posted by Wingman77 View Post
No he doesn't, they have the exact same career OPS in the playoffs

Are you trying to say that because of one stat that A-Rod has better than Jeter in the post season (who just so happens to be the career post season leader in hits and total bases among plenty of others) that A-Rod is comparable to Jeter in the post season? Sounds just like the Mets coming up with that stat that Harvey struck out more guys than Nolan Ryan so there should therefore be hope that he'll be a stud

Cano has played in 6 full post seasons and has 3 .300+ BA post seasons compared to A-Rod's 10 full post seasons with 4 .300+ BA post seasons and you know what, quite frankly that sucks for a player of A-Rod's stature, the $30m a year player compared to a player who nearly has had the same amount strong BA post seasons and didn't reach his current stature until 3 years ago, so don't give me that, what a crock of ****
That analogy makes no sense. Comparing a pitcher who has started a handful of pro games to an all time great is nothing like simply comparing the postseason stats of two players who played in the same era.

Why are you trying to segment their postseason performances by year? You end up treating a 5 game postseason the same way you treat a 15 postseason. The end result is that Cano has a career .273 OBP in the postseason, which is very bad.

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10-16-2012, 05:52 PM
  #665
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Originally Posted by Feed Me A Stray Cat View Post
That analogy makes no sense. Comparing a pitcher who has started a handful of pro games to an all time great is nothing like simply comparing the postseason stats of two players who played in the same era.

Why are you trying to segment their postseason performances by year? You end up treating a 5 game postseason the same way you treat a 15 postseason. The end result is that Cano has a career .273 OBP in the postseason, which is very bad.
That would be because that wasn't the analogy - the analogy was about your logic, you being the Mets, touting one stat about somebody and using that stat to compare it to a player with far more superiority

I'm comparing the post seasons by year because we were talking about consistency - you said there was no possible way to call Cano a consistent postseason producer and A-Rod a choker with a straight face which is why I brought up that 3 post seasons out of Cano's 6 have been better batting wise than A-Rod's 4 in 10 which gets back to what I said initially that Cano has been more consistent in the post season

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10-16-2012, 05:57 PM
  #666
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Originally Posted by Wingman77 View Post
That would be because that wasn't the analogy - the analogy was about your logic, you being the Mets, touting one stat about somebody and using that stat to compare it to a player with far more superiority

I'm comparing the post seasons by year because we were talking about consistency - you said there was no possible way to call Cano a consistent postseason producer and A-Rod a choker with a straight face which is why I brought up that 3 post seasons out of Cano's 6 have been better batting wise than A-Rod's 4 in 10 which gets back to what I said initially that Cano has been more consistent in the post season
My logic is absolutely nothing like the Harvey v. Ryan logic. In the latter you are comparing someone with a sample of 10 career starts to someone with hundreds of career starts. All I'm doing is comparing the overall postseason statistics for two players with a decent sample of at bats and who played during the same era.

So your definition of "consistency" is based on how many seasons a player maintained a batting average of .300 or higher. Nothing about walks, power, or how many games were played in each postseason (which effects your overall postseason output). We also don't care about just how bad the the non-.300 batting average seasons were. OK then.

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10-16-2012, 06:16 PM
  #667
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Originally Posted by Feed Me A Stray Cat View Post
My logic is absolutely nothing like the Harvey v. Ryan logic. In the latter you are comparing someone with a sample of 10 career starts to someone with hundreds of career starts. All I'm doing is comparing the overall postseason statistics for two players with a decent sample of at bats and who played during the same era.

So your definition of "consistency" is based on how many seasons a player maintained a batting average of .300 or higher. Nothing about walks, power, or how many games were played in each postseason (which effects your overall postseason output). We also don't care about just how bad the the non-.300 batting average seasons were. OK then.
No, that was the Mets comparing Harvey with 10 starts to that of Ryan with hundreds, it was the silliness of the logic that the Mets used that you also used one stat of A-Rod's to compare it to Jeter's one stat who like Ryan has played a ton more games (Jeter playing in nearly 100 more playoff games than A-Rod)

There has been one post season that has lowered Cano's playoff OBP which was 06, otherwise his numbers have been relatively similar and consistent in the high 3s and an exception in the high 2s , A-Rod has been up and down, up and down

I'm not discussing A-Rod's inconsistency anymore, or by your terms, consistency based on one stat, you may like to live your live like Ben Stiller in Along Came Polly, but I prefer to use my eyes and like just about everybody else who has followed baseball the past 2 decades will tell you, A-Rod is not a playoff performer

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10-16-2012, 10:39 PM
  #668
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10-16-2012, 10:44 PM
  #669
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Ibanez didn't have any more heroics tonight. I guess it was more than could be expected of him.

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10-16-2012, 11:00 PM
  #670
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That was a filthy pitch by Coke who I wish was still a Yank.

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10-16-2012, 11:04 PM
  #671
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I have 1 word for this... poop.

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10-16-2012, 11:56 PM
  #672
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A-Rod lead off. Yeah I said it.

i kid of course.

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10-17-2012, 01:35 AM
  #673
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Shouldn't a slugger always have a higher OPS than a contact hitter
Pretty much.

He cites OBP half the time and OPS the other half, depending on which one proves his point. OPS is useles comparing a hitter like Jeter to one like A-Rod.

Jeter has a higher OBP that A-Rod, although not by much. The difference is Jeter puts up consistent numbers whereas A-Rod has one great postseason and ten crappy ones.

Plus, A-Rod has been the better player through their careers. A-Rod in the postseason doesn't play up to his regular season numbers whereas Jeter does, if not exceeding them.

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10-17-2012, 06:53 AM
  #674
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This has got to be the worst post-season offense in the history of the game, right?

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10-17-2012, 08:41 AM
  #675
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This has got to be the worst post-season offense in the history of the game, right?
Probably not, but it has been dreadful. The infuriating thing is that the pitching really hasn't been letting the Yankees down, it's just that they can't score worth a damn because every hitter is in a slump simultaneously for some reason.

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