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The Lockout Thread Part I

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10-16-2012, 11:44 PM
  #576
Cyclones Rock
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Great negotiating move by the owners. They get the PR win as "50/50" just has an air of "fairness" about it to many people.

My initial prediction of players 52% owners 48% looks to be right on *pats self on back* LOL.

Most of the other details (free agency, etc.) are all in coin flip territory as the latest proposals are pretty close to what already exists. The only exceptions being maximum length of player contract and the length of the CBA. These two items may create a little more bumpiness in the dispute.

I'm very optimistic that the lockout will be over within a week or so.

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10-17-2012, 08:23 AM
  #577
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Great negotiating move by the owners. They get the PR win as "50/50" just has an air of "fairness" about it to many people.
Just a comment, not directed at you but I felt the need to rant again. When society feels that people going up to the owners of a company or entity demanding 50% of their revenue or they won't work, I'm am not sure we aren't in a society that "fairness" is something that has taken on a whole new meaning from what I grew up with. What that just means is the rest of us would like to do that and get paid 500k for the job we do because the owner dared to make a profit. The players gave no consideration to the possible trickle down effect of their demands to front office workers on small market teams. Pretty much all of them don't give a crap about how much a ticket costs until we quit paying the price for them.

At one point unions were formed to cover things like being extorted or job conditions (look up the death rates on building sky scrapers for example). Being vastly underpaid in a job that can easily kill you is a good reason to organize. Getting upset because Toronto and NY are giving you a larger percentage of their profits to smaller market teams so that the league average for player will eventually hit 4 million a year, isn't. That is wealth redistribution at it's finest. Except in this case we are redistributing the wealth from the rich to the rich. When it can sometimes be a question if some of the players are actually more wealthy than the owner, you know craziness and come upon us.

To be fair the owners "started" this. They've made some poor decisions. They are greedy, just like the players are. They locked out the players and wanted to renegotiate contracts on the fly. However, this was never about fairness from the players or owners side(s). This is about the players union sucking every last dollar out of the owners, and ultimately us, as they possibly can. It's about the owners wanting to use their market size as an avenue to buy championships or make unseemly amounts of money. Absolutely none of this is about fairness. It's certainly not about what is fair to the fans.

Frankly, this whole process is just another disgusting display in the world. This is just another notch in the belt of my eventual exit of professional sports. I fled to hockey, the greed is now ruining it. I would see if fleeing to soccer might be better, but I'm honestly bored to tears watching it. Might as well get into profession tennis or golf, they bore mess less than soccer.

Why can't the players be content with what they have and negotiate things that truly matter? The important things are not 50% of revenue .vs. 54% or 57%. If you look over the CBA you can see the things that are truly important. They are some real valuable concerns in there beyond attempting to increasing the average salary northward of 4 million a year.


Last edited by blahblah: 10-17-2012 at 08:28 AM.
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Old
10-17-2012, 09:03 AM
  #578
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haha, just saw that the NHL hired Frank Luntz and it got leaked. Hilarious. What is even more hilarious is that people are making a big deal out of it. What would have been shocking is if the NHL didn't attempt to improve PR via focus groups and help them frame their message.

The "shared sacrifice" part is hilarious. Everyone is using it now.

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10-17-2012, 09:50 AM
  #579
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Mckenzie: Nhl proposal wasn't met with great enthusiasm

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=407542

to Fehr and the NHLPA

When both sides stop negotiating in the media is when we can expect an agreement to be close.


Last edited by cbjfan: 10-17-2012 at 09:57 AM.
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Old
10-17-2012, 10:11 AM
  #580
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cbjfan View Post
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=407542

to Fehr and the NHLPA

When both sides stop negotiating in the media is when we can expect an agreement to be close.
As expected.

This line I do not like.

Quote:
Given the enormous concessions players made in the last round, plus 7 years of record revenue reaching $3.3 billion last season, there is no reason for a reduction in the amount the players receive.
Basically give us 57% or FO. While it's debatable depending on your perspective, revenue increase does not necessarily equate health or profitability. In addition revenue from the CBJ, for example, has not kept pace. Nor will it.

They won't let revenue sharing die. If that is the case, this is going to last a while. I see nothing from this that is encouraging and indicates progress will be made.

While I agree the players made quite a few concessions last go around, a couple of them pretty big. I giggle the salary cap argument. The increase in the cap also increased the floor. It forced teams like the Islanders to spend more. While that doesn't make up for Toronto not being able to spend 100+ million on player salaries, it did limit teams from spending 30 million (which some would be doing).

The reality is without a cap floor the Jackets could be a healthy highly uncompetitive team instead of an unhealthy uncompetitive team. We could be back to *****ing about the owner.

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10-17-2012, 10:12 AM
  #581
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In case anyone hasn't seen the offer as it was posted on the NHL site, Porty pointed out the following text:

"Delay (beyond October 25) will necessarily leave us with an abbreviated season and will require the cancellation of signature NHL events. Failure to reach a prompt agreement will also have other significant and detrimental impacts on our fans, the game, our Clubs, our business and the communities in which we play. All of this will obviously necessitate changes to this offer in the event we are unsuccessful in saving a full season."

Sounds like ASG and potentially Winter Classic are gone if no deal by 10/25.

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10-17-2012, 10:39 AM
  #582
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Originally Posted by Nanabijou View Post
Agreed. I feel as though if this doesn't get this week, we can kiss the season goodbye. Bettman's sucked it up and made the first significant move. If Fehr doesn't budge, Bettman's wounded pride will likely mean that we're in for hockey armageddon.
Agreed. No inside knowledge here, but knowing what a greedy little ***** Bettman is, this is likely the best offer the NHLPA is ever going to see. They can fight the whole season and the NHLPA will still probably not get a better offer. Just like selling a house, your first offer is usually the best one.

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10-17-2012, 10:44 AM
  #583
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I fail to see the problem with playing the Stanley Cup in June.

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10-17-2012, 11:23 AM
  #584
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Seeing those proposed cap numbers (No salary rollback, Approx. 60 mil for 2012-13, with a season long grace period), my disappointment over getting an inferior package over Nash has all but subsided.

That contract would have been a poison under the proposed CBA. I'm fairly glad that it's not our problem anymore.

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10-17-2012, 11:29 AM
  #585
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Hmm problem playing SC finals in June? How about baseball, hot dogs, apple pie and Chevrolet's? In June the weather has turned and the vast majority of people are outside. They are not sitting indoors to watch hockey. Sure, the hockey fanatics will still watch. But that kind of .0000547 of one per cent viewer ratings will not help hockey on TV.

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10-17-2012, 11:57 AM
  #586
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Originally Posted by EDM View Post
Hmm problem playing SC finals in June? How about baseball, hot dogs, apple pie and Chevrolet's? In June the weather has turned and the vast majority of people are outside. They are not sitting indoors to watch hockey. Sure, the hockey fanatics will still watch. But that kind of .0000547 of one per cent viewer ratings will not help hockey on TV.
But which is worse? Stanley Cup in June or no season at all.

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Old
10-17-2012, 12:39 PM
  #587
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But which is worse? Stanley Cup in June or no season at all.
The finals were played in June this past season.

It started May 30 and ended June 11.

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10-17-2012, 06:13 PM
  #588
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If the players don't take the 50/50 deal, **** them.

No seriously, **** them.

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10-17-2012, 08:00 PM
  #589
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Just my perception but reading twitter and the mains and it appears that there has been a significant shift by the fans towards supporting owners since latest offer. Don't think is a factor, just an observation.

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Old
10-17-2012, 08:06 PM
  #590
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If the players don't take the 50/50 deal, **** them.

No seriously, **** them.
I don't fully expect them to take that deal, but this huge leap by the NHL should at least kick start negotiations. If anything, I think the split will begin somewhere in the 53-54% range in favor of the players, and progressively work it's way down to 50% over the course of a few seasons.

They should at least be willing to make some concessions here. If not, this season will be lost.

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10-17-2012, 08:15 PM
  #591
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Aaron Ward (Connected to the PA) said on some show in Canada he and many players expect there to be no hockey in Nov or Dec.

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10-18-2012, 12:29 AM
  #592
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I was amazed how not horrible college hockey was this weekend (compared to college football). The quality was actually pretty good. I'll get over it with some trips to watch the Buckeyes. A friend also mentioned the Erie PA OHL team. I could do a few trips to watch certain players.
BFC and I are already making plans along those lines, since they're basically at a central location between the two of us. November 10th is highlighted in particular as a nice possibility, since that's 1) a bye week for Buckeye football and 2) when Boone Jenner comes to town.

We're also getting next weekend (not this coming, the weekend after) lined up.

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10-18-2012, 10:33 AM
  #593
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Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
BFC and I are already making plans along those lines, since they're basically at a central location between the two of us. November 10th is highlighted in particular as a nice possibility, since that's 1) a bye week for Buckeye football and 2) when Boone Jenner comes to town.

We're also getting next weekend (not this coming, the weekend after) lined up.
That's a hell of an idea...the wife is bugging me to go to an Otters game, and it would involve driving fairly close by her parents as well.

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10-18-2012, 12:08 PM
  #594
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BFC and I are already making plans along those lines, since they're basically at a central location between the two of us. November 10th is highlighted in particular as a nice possibility, since that's 1) a bye week for Buckeye football and 2) when Boone Jenner comes to town.

We're also getting next weekend (not this coming, the weekend after) lined up.
And Boone is one of the guys I want to see. Nov 10th, eh? Time to put that bad boy on my calendar. Going back to Erie PA? In a way kind of a homecoming of sorts for me...

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10-18-2012, 03:47 PM
  #595
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Apparently not very good news out of Toronto today. 3 counter proposals from the NHLPA and in Bettman's words none "even approach 50-50".

UGH !

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10-18-2012, 03:52 PM
  #596
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taken with a grain of salt and all, the labor lawyer i ended up talking to a few days ago who works in fehr's office said that from what he's hearing its a long way from over. the guy is labor council for the mlbpa.

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10-18-2012, 04:25 PM
  #597
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taken with a grain of salt and all, the labor lawyer i ended up talking to a few days ago who works in fehr's office said that from what he's hearing its a long way from over. the guy is labor council for the mlbpa.
Understood...

But a long way to go and a short time to get there.

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10-18-2012, 04:27 PM
  #598
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Option #3 sounds like a perfectly logical counter proposal.

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10-18-2012, 04:35 PM
  #599
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Option #3 sounds like a perfectly logical counter proposal.

Do you have a link to the details of those counters?

Would be appreciated

Thanks

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10-18-2012, 04:36 PM
  #600
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Understood...

But a long way to go and a short time to get there.
I'm east bound just watch ol' Bandit run ......

Sorry, got a little sidetracked there.

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