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Leafs Morgan Rielly discussion.

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Old
10-17-2012, 12:55 AM
  #226
charliolemieux
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C'mon Lidstrom is one of the best ever.

Subban can be a franchise D without being close to Lidstrom.

Besides Lidstrom earned respect from other teams not death threats.

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10-17-2012, 01:02 AM
  #227
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Don't forget about Jake, I watched the Marlies play Rochester, he dominated, smart play, smooth skater, nice shot, sees the open man, he's the total package as far as I'm concerned, gonna love watching him for years to come.

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10-17-2012, 01:04 AM
  #228
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Don't forget about Jake, I watched the Marlies play Rochester, he dominated, smart play, smooth skater, nice shot, sees the open man, he's the total package as far as I'm concerned, gonna love watching him for years to come.
He's not the new shiny guy now though. Makes him instantly expendable.

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10-17-2012, 01:35 AM
  #229
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I really like Rielly as a draft pick. It's better to get a highly skilled, point-producing defenseman at the draft and defer having to pay them their market value instead of getting them through trades or free agency.

This was my gripe with the Schenn selection. Sure at the time he may have seemed like a good pick - he even played really well his first year. But that kind of steady defensive play can also be gotten from the UFA or trade market for cheap.

(but then how did visnovsky get traded for a second rounder?)

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10-17-2012, 01:54 AM
  #230
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Murray has 5 points.

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10-17-2012, 02:52 AM
  #231
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Murray has 5 points.
To be fair, Murray isn't really known specifically for his offense, but instead more for his all around solid play.

I still wouldn't move Rielly for him though

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10-17-2012, 07:54 AM
  #232
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Originally Posted by JMcLeaf View Post
To be fair, Murray isn't really known specifically for his offense, but instead more for his all around solid play.

I still wouldn't move Rielly for him though
To be fair? It's never fair when it's Morgan Rielly

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10-17-2012, 10:25 AM
  #233
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Originally Posted by Grant View Post
Was Nashville expecting Weber to be a franchise defenseman?

Was Montreal expecting Subban to be a franchise defenseman?

Was Detroit expecting Lidstrom to be a franchise defenseman? Let alone one of the greatest defensemen of all time?


What I'm trying to say is prospects can have all the promise in the world. They still have to elevate their game when they make it to the big league though. We will have no idea if Rielly can be a franchise defenseman until he plays some games in the NHL. Looking at how he has played in junior so far it looks like he will be a great player. Calling him or wondering if he will be a franchise defenseman at this point in time to me is too premature.
Not too sure about Lindstrom because that was awhile ago, but Subban and Weber both showed amazing promise in international play in the World Jrs. Unless something very unexpected happens, pretty sure Rielly's got a spot on the team in December so if he plays like he did in the Canada/Russia series, I'd expect great things from him.

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10-17-2012, 11:28 AM
  #234
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To be fair, Murray isn't really known specifically for his offense, but instead more for his all around solid play.

I still wouldn't move Rielly for him though
I never really understood why Murray was so highly touted. I mean hes a good overal player, but what about his game is that much different from Stuart Percy? Both are average skaters with very high hockey IQ. One is obviously a tad more physical, however both play a defensively sound game with the ability to produce. Both captained their teams at young ages, with one having much more success in junior then the other... and that player isnt Ryan Murray.

I've always thought that highly drafted players are those with some form of exceptional ability. Ryan Murray doesnt seem to have an exceptional quality in his game. I mean when i look at Ryan Murray's stats, it just seems like he conforms to his team. His team as hole ranges from -8 to +4. Hes sitting at -4. Their top 4 defensive production ranges from 3 points to 8 points and hes sitting at 5.

I look at Morgan Rielly's statistics and hes clearly a standout on his team. The team is as equally poor as Everette however whenever there is a range of statistics Morgan is at the top. Plus minus ranges from -5 to +4 and Morgan of course is a +4. The teams top 4 defensive production is 2,6,7 & 14 points. Of course Rielly has double the amount of points as the next guy. Some may not value the plus minus statistic, however when your EXCEPTIONAL ability is your overal defensive play and your not the best player at even strength, may raise a few questions. When the majority of your points are produced on the powerplay and your sitting with the best plus minus on the team, you must be doing something right. Obviously its early in the season, however Burke may have actually selected a top 2 pick.

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10-17-2012, 11:33 AM
  #235
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If Chuck Norris shaved his face, the whiskers would jump onto Morgan Rielly's face.

We know he is God-like, but it s still early. Let's compare players on bodies of work, not on a week by week basis. It just nice to know the Leafs ave at least one bonafide blue chipper in the stable. I am happy with that.

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10-17-2012, 11:48 AM
  #236
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyGuruPitka View Post
I never really understood why Murray was so highly touted. I mean hes a good overal player, but what about his game is that much different from Stuart Percy? Both are average skaters with very high hockey IQ. One is obviously a tad more physical, however both play a defensively sound game with the ability to produce. Both captained their teams at young ages, with one having much more success in junior then the other... and that player isnt Ryan Murray.

I've always thought that highly drafted players are those with some form of exceptional ability. Ryan Murray doesnt seem to have an exceptional quality in his game. I mean when i look at Ryan Murray's stats, it just seems like he conforms to his team. His team as hole ranges from -8 to +4. Hes sitting at -4. Their top 4 defensive production ranges from 3 points to 8 points and hes sitting at 5.

I look at Morgan Rielly's statistics and hes clearly a standout on his team. The team is as equally poor as Everette however whenever there is a range of statistics Morgan is at the top. Plus minus ranges from -5 to +4 and Morgan of course is a +4. The teams top 4 defensive production is 2,6,7 & 14 points. Of course Rielly has double the amount of points as the next guy. Some may not value the plus minus statistic, however when your EXCEPTIONAL ability is your overal defensive play and your not the best player at even strength, may raise a few questions. When the majority of your points are produced on the powerplay and your sitting with the best plus minus on the team, you must be doing something right. Obviously its early in the season, however Burke may have actually selected a top 2 pick.

Murray's skating is far better than "average". I think his poise and hockey sense are another level as well. I do wonder what his offensive upside really is, based on what I consider mediocre whl numbers. He's much like Suter, and every team is looking for that kind of player.

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10-17-2012, 11:55 AM
  #237
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Murray has 5 points.
simply being drafted by Columbus turns you into a bum

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10-17-2012, 11:59 AM
  #238
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Originally Posted by HockeyGuruPitka View Post
I never really understood why Murray was so highly touted. I mean hes a good overal player, but what about his game is that much different from Stuart Percy? Both are average skaters with very high hockey IQ. One is obviously a tad more physical, however both play a defensively sound game with the ability to produce. Both captained their teams at young ages, with one having much more success in junior then the other... and that player isnt Ryan Murray.

I've always thought that highly drafted players are those with some form of exceptional ability. Ryan Murray doesnt seem to have an exceptional quality in his game. I mean when i look at Ryan Murray's stats, it just seems like he conforms to his team. His team as hole ranges from -8 to +4. Hes sitting at -4. Their top 4 defensive production ranges from 3 points to 8 points and hes sitting at 5.

I look at Morgan Rielly's statistics and hes clearly a standout on his team. The team is as equally poor as Everette however whenever there is a range of statistics Morgan is at the top. Plus minus ranges from -5 to +4 and Morgan of course is a +4. The teams top 4 defensive production is 2,6,7 & 14 points. Of course Rielly has double the amount of points as the next guy. Some may not value the plus minus statistic, however when your EXCEPTIONAL ability is your overal defensive play and your not the best player at even strength, may raise a few questions. When the majority of your points are produced on the powerplay and your sitting with the best plus minus on the team, you must be doing something right. Obviously its early in the season, however Burke may have actually selected a top 2 pick.
Correct me if I'm wrong but Nicklas Lindstrom wasn't known to have any exceptional ability either. I mean he put up points, but that was not what Lindstrom was known for. I'm pretty sure he was a norris winner due to his overall play (offensive and defensive), logging huge minutes and his durability, making Detroit one of the most dangerous teams of the decade mostly due to him. I'm definitely NOT comparing Ryan Murray to Lindstrom, especially not when he hasn't played a game in the league. I'm just saying there is a lot of value in overall play which apparently a lot of GMs covet and many see in Murray.

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10-17-2012, 12:15 PM
  #239
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Whats the deal with Murray?

Pull up a thread from one of the Canada-Russa Series games, and see all the Murray praise. Kid makes maybe one positional mistake for every 3 games he plays. Always where you need him

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10-17-2012, 12:25 PM
  #240
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Murray is the better defender no question, but everything from first pass to neutral zone play and offensive zone play is in Rielly's favour. The skills Rielly possesses are much harder to teach or acquire later on in a career.

It's easier to learn defense, especially with the high IQ both Rielly and Murray have, than it is to learn offense.

Murray might end up being the better player but I highly doubt it. Columbus took the safe, low-risk/moderate reward option. Ours took a bit more guts (low-moderate risk) but with high/sky-high reward.

I truly believe Rielly will be the best player in the draft.

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10-17-2012, 01:10 PM
  #241
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Originally Posted by BlueMapleDawg View Post
Murray is the better defender no question, but everything from first pass to neutral zone play and offensive zone play is in Rielly's favour. The skills Rielly possesses are much harder to teach or acquire later on in a career.

It's easier to learn defense, especially with the high IQ both Rielly and Murray have, than it is to learn offense.

Murray might end up being the better player but I highly doubt it. Columbus took the safe, low-risk/moderate reward option. Ours took a bit more guts (low-moderate risk) but with high/sky-high reward.

I truly believe Rielly will be the best player in the draft.
That would be a nice change for the Buds!

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10-17-2012, 01:12 PM
  #242
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Rielly is starting to slack, 14 points in 10 games? What next, he's going to fall back to ppg and only get 82 this year?

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10-17-2012, 01:21 PM
  #243
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Correct me if I'm wrong but Nicklas Lindstrom wasn't known to have any exceptional ability either. I mean he put up points, but that was not what Lindstrom was known for. I'm pretty sure he was a norris winner due to his overall play (offensive and defensive), logging huge minutes and his durability, making Detroit one of the most dangerous teams of the decade mostly due to him. I'm definitely NOT comparing Ryan Murray to Lindstrom, especially not when he hasn't played a game in the league. I'm just saying there is a lot of value in overall play which apparently a lot of GMs covet and many see in Murray.
Lidstrom who was drafted in a completely different era of the NHL has averaged 57 points a season over his career. He won trophy's because he was the best defenseman in basically every category. He IMO is the second best defenseman of all time. I cannot see a comparison with Ryan Murray whatsoever. Now im not going to try and discredit what Ryan Murray brings as a player, but hes on a poor team and hasnt really made the team better. As a #1 defenseman and a #2 overal selection you would think you should have an impact on your teams overal success. As you can see, Rielly has quarterbacked the backend and has helped turn his team into a playoff contendor.

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10-17-2012, 01:35 PM
  #244
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That would be a nice change for the Buds!
Yeah. In addition, he's being coached by one of the best development coaches there is. Mike Stothers will be in the NHL coaching eventually. He was Owen Sound's coach when they had Bobby Ryan and Burke has stated it's one of the reasons Bobby is half the player he is today.

Now add in Rielly's dedication and you've got yourself a helluva player.

I've been preaching Rielly for a while before the draft and people thought I was crazy. Then after the draft I think people started coming around and others had a s***-fit when we didn't take a forward.

Rielly is going to be our franchise player. A guy you build your team around.

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10-17-2012, 01:50 PM
  #245
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Yeah. In addition, he's being coached by one of the best development coaches there is. Mike Stothers will be in the NHL coaching eventually. He was Owen Sound's coach when they had Bobby Ryan and Burke has stated it's one of the reasons Bobby is half the player he is today.

Now add in Rielly's dedication and you've got yourself a helluva player.

I've been preaching Rielly for a while before the draft and people thought I was crazy. Then after the draft I think people started coming around and others had a s***-fit when we didn't take a forward.

Rielly is going to be our franchise player. A guy you build your team around.
gotta admit i was completely expecting forsberg or grigorenko when it was our turn to pick, and was so shocked we took rielly. But my mind was changed the next day, i love this kid

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10-17-2012, 02:07 PM
  #246
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I was kinda surprised when the Burke said his name. I was thrilled! But slightly surprised.

I think him and Gardiner can make a similar pairing to Keith and Seabrook.

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10-17-2012, 02:13 PM
  #247
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Rielly has everything Murray has, plus elite level offensive skill.

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10-17-2012, 02:13 PM
  #248
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Originally Posted by Atomos2 View Post
Correct me if I'm wrong but Nicklas Lindstrom wasn't known to have any exceptional ability either. I mean he put up points, but that was not what Lindstrom was known for. I'm pretty sure he was a norris winner due to his overall play (offensive and defensive), logging huge minutes and his durability, making Detroit one of the most dangerous teams of the decade mostly due to him. I'm definitely NOT comparing Ryan Murray to Lindstrom, especially not when he hasn't played a game in the league. I'm just saying there is a lot of value in overall play which apparently a lot of GMs covet and many see in Murray.
Uhhhh, if there's a reason why Lidström didn't excel in one aspect of the game more than another, it's because he did everything at an elite level. Easily one of the top 3 defensemen to have ever played the game.


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10-17-2012, 02:53 PM
  #249
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Rielly is starting to slack, 14 points in 10 games? What next, he's going to fall back to ppg and only get 82 this year?
Someone doesn't follow the WHL, busted

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10-17-2012, 02:54 PM
  #250
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Rielly has everything Murray has, plus elite level offensive skill.
I really like the Rielly pick, big fan of the kid, but Murray is MILES ahead of Rielly defensively.

Also, to all the "Rielly will be the best player in the draft comments," who knows, it's possible, but the early frontrunner has to be Yakupov. The kid is insanely talented, certainly has the potential to become a superstar winger. I think Rielly is on a similar level to picks 2-4 though (Murray, Galchenyuk and Reinhart).

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