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Huge Penalty in the New CBA Proposal to Flyers?

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10-17-2012, 12:13 AM
  #1
Coach Parker
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Huge Penalty in the New CBA Proposal to Flyers?

Hey guys,

Just reading through this new CBA talk and came across the point where Bob MacKenzie pointed out that if a player retires his cap hit remains. Also, if a player is traded then retires early, the original team who signed him has to pay the cap hit.

So...

Weber was signed by the Flyers who structured the deal, not the Predators. Wouldn't this mean that if/when Weber decided to retire two years early from finishing his contract that the Flyers would be on the hook for his cap and have never had him on their team?

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10-17-2012, 12:26 AM
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JustinW
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He never got traded

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Old
10-17-2012, 12:26 AM
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Coach Parker
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Bob McKenzie ‏@TSNBobMcKenzie

Any existing deal in excess of 5 yrs would carry cap hit in every year of contract, even if player were to retire with year(s) left.

Bob McKenzie ‏@TSNBobMcKenzie

In other words, the benefit clubs thought they were getting by reducing AAV with back-diving deals/bogus end yrs would be reduced/negated.

Bob McKenzie ‏@TSNBobMcKenzie

Sorry I lied. Important note on back-diving contracts (BDC). If player traded, then later in deal retires, original club on hook for cap hit

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10-17-2012, 12:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustinW View Post
He never got traded
No, but he did sign his first contract with the Flyers, giving the Predators one week to match it and they couldn't change anything on it.

For that week he was signed by the Flyers in a contract they built.

Now the new CBA is attempting to penalize any teams who tried to circumvent the cap and his new offer does just that. If what Bob is saying is true, when Weber retires and walks away from the last two years, it would be the ORIGINAL team that signed the contract that would be on the hook...

The Philadelphia Flyers.

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10-17-2012, 12:29 AM
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Seth Lake
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I believe it's going to be the Predators, but the contract is worth very little by the time Weber is retiring...

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10-17-2012, 12:35 AM
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Originally Posted by SLake View Post
I believe it's going to be the Predators, but the contract is worth very little by the time Weber is retiring...
But the full cap hit is a hit regardless. If he retires in the last year getting paid very little but his cap hit is still what it is today the team that originally signed him to this cap circumventing contract is penalized by the NHL by taking on his cap hit.

For example, the Canucks trade Luongo and he goes to the Leafs and then retires with two years left. The last two years go back to the Canucks as a penalty not the Leafs. That is the reasoning and punishment the NHL has put forth against these teams.

The Flyers structured the deal and had Weber sign it. Nashville couldn't restructure this deal at all and had to match exactly. For that week, he was signed by the Flyers to a contract.

Therefore, when he retires, the originator of the contract (like Luongo in Vancouver) is the Flyers and they would get the cap hit.

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10-17-2012, 08:30 AM
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Fo Shea Shea
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach Parker View Post
Weber was signed by the Flyers who structured the deal, not the Predators. Wouldn't this mean that if/when Weber decided to retire two years early from finishing his contract that the Flyers would be on the hook for his cap and have never had him on their team?
He signed an offer sheet. Not a contract.


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10-17-2012, 09:13 AM
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token grinder
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this would prevent teams like boston trading a retired contract like tim thomas to the coyotes for example, for phoenix to hit the floor and boston get cap relief. It makes the low spending team actually give a job to someone who can play.

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10-17-2012, 09:20 AM
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GwtGlads2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fo Shea Shea View Post
The signed an offer sheet. Not a contract.
This would be correct.

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10-17-2012, 11:38 AM
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tweet back at bob and ask.

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10-17-2012, 11:56 AM
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Everlong
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Bob McKenzie ‏@TSNBobMcKenzie
Sorry I lied. Important note on back-diving contracts (BDC). If player traded, then later in deal retires, original club on hook for cap hit

I understand they're trying to discourage teams from giving out ridiculous contracts that they'd regret later, but this makes zero sense.

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10-17-2012, 12:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Everlong View Post
Bob McKenzie ‏@TSNBobMcKenzie
Sorry I lied. Important note on back-diving contracts (BDC). If player traded, then later in deal retires, original club on hook for cap hit

I understand they're trying to discourage teams from giving out ridiculous contracts that they'd regret later, but this makes zero sense.
right there with you.

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10-17-2012, 01:52 PM
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Legionnaire11
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I agree that this isn't the best idea. It makes sense as Token described it in the case of a team trading for retired contracts to reach the floor... but that's where it ends. The team trading for a player should assume any responsibility for the contracts that they trade for.

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10-17-2012, 08:50 PM
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PredsV82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach Parker View Post
No, but he did sign his first contract with the Flyers, giving the Predators one week to match it and they couldn't change anything on it.

For that week he was signed by the Flyers in a contract they built.

Now the new CBA is attempting to penalize any teams who tried to circumvent the cap and his new offer does just that. If what Bob is saying is true, when Weber retires and walks away from the last two years, it would be the ORIGINAL team that signed the contract that would be on the hook...

The Philadelphia Flyers.
Weber never had a CONTRACT with the Flyers... he had an offer sheet, which, if it had not been matched, would have led to a contract... but since it was matched, his CONTRACT is with the Preds...

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10-18-2012, 11:46 AM
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token grinder
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Legionnaire11 View Post
I agree that this isn't the best idea. It makes sense as Token described it in the case of a team trading for retired contracts to reach the floor... but that's where it ends. The team trading for a player should assume any responsibility for the contracts that they trade for.
I could see this as a provision of the over 35 rule. If you sign a guy that is 29 to a 5 year deal and trade him in year 3 and he is fit and healthy and really no threat to retire, the team getting him should be on the hook. But these deals like Weber got where the guy is a huge cap hit until he is 40, I agree with. It prevents us from trading Weber Weber at age 37 and retiring to a floor team. On the flip side, if a guy with a long contract wants out, for example, weber after year 3, we would have to get assets to protect us in case of him retiring.

I really think this is one of those things that gets bargained out, and I am shocked the owners put it in as they could seriously screw themselves.

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