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CBA Negotiations II: This is the song that never ends...

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Old
10-17-2012, 11:40 AM
  #126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prongo View Post
Someone just retweeted Timmy P. and said we would be on the hook for Carter no matter what. If that is the case the rule is horrible. I agree with you about punishing teams for what was once legal. I don't understand how Snider and other large market teams could agree to these terms? Like people are saying, maybe they are not a powerful as we all once thought?
I imagine they only agree to them if the Dreger tweet about trading for cap space comes about...especially if we can trade cash for it. It would be a really roundabout and awkward luxury tax. That's the only way I'd see Snider agree to it..."If we're doing that, I want to get more cap space!" sorta deal.

Edit:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fehr
We do not yet know whether this proposal is a serious attempt to negotiate an agreement, or just another step down the road. The next several days will be, in large part, an effort to discover the answer to that question.
I'm actually optimistic about this statement. It seems they'll be talking about this proposal, which is better than just saying "NO" and waiting for a new proposal. Though it's still entirely possible they do that again if the league doesn't give some more concessions or concede a softer landing from 57% to 50%

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Old
10-17-2012, 11:46 AM
  #127
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Cool....this would do wonders for Carter's popularity in this town....

But seriousy what a punative proposal...ugh!

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10-17-2012, 11:58 AM
  #128
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The CBA circus

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10-17-2012, 12:09 PM
  #129
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I don't think the players care much about bettman's attempts at punishing major market teams, once they get the percentage they want we should be good, just hope the CBA won't hamstring the flyers too much with the contract rules.

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10-17-2012, 12:14 PM
  #130
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I don't think the players care much about bettman's attempts at punishing major market teams, once they get the percentage they want we should be good, just hope the CBA won't hamstring the flyers too much with the contract rules.
Yep. The players get paid either way, the retirement deal only affects the owners. I can see them taking objection to the 5 year contract limit though.

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10-17-2012, 12:24 PM
  #131
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The players aren't going to want that because that dead cap space is going to be taking money out of their pocket. If the Flyers are on the hook for 11 million that isn't being paid to Carter and Richards that's 11 Million the players aren't making.
Not the way these CBA:s are structured. If say the players will make 50% of the HRR they will make the 50% no matter how much dead capspace the teams will have. That dead cap wont affect the players money, they will get their 50% anyway.

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10-17-2012, 12:42 PM
  #132
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how about this scenario. islanders will hand out be out stupid contracts and just trade them away for cap space immediately so they can hit the cap floor with out paying a dime to these players in a few years.

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10-17-2012, 01:18 PM
  #133
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thats the dumbest idea ever. How could the owner's actually want that?

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10-17-2012, 01:27 PM
  #134
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http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=643572

Damn. No mention of cash used in trades. That makes me sad.

Of note: "We are proposing that the salaries of minor league Players on NHL contracts (above a threshold of $105,000) be counted against a Club's Cap. This provision is intended to prevent Clubs from "stashing" or assigning players to the minors (or any other professional league) for "Cap management" purposes. We are not proposing that any salary paid to minor league Players on NHL contracts be counted against the Players' Share."

Rangers fans should be alarmed. They have Redden on the books through 2014

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10-17-2012, 01:45 PM
  #135
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It could very well be the Jeff Carter caphit for us an the "Wade Redden rule" could very well be end up getting squashed with the players giving back or taking something off their end. .ie a negotiating tactic. I wouldnt get to worked up about either thing. Nothing is set in stone and everything is negotiable.
People just need to relax.

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10-17-2012, 01:56 PM
  #136
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I do find it interesting, but not shocking, that not all NHL owners were aware of proposal given to players before info was leaked to media
2:04pm - 17 Oct 12

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10-17-2012, 02:00 PM
  #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stefanh View Post
Not the way these CBA:s are structured. If say the players will make 50% of the HRR they will make the 50% no matter how much dead capspace the teams will have. That dead cap wont affect the players money, they will get their 50% anyway.
I think what he was saying is that Carter/Richards' $11 million would prevent the Flyers from signing players to the contract said player might want. If the cap is at $70 million (for easy math), and that $11 million is on the Carter/Richards deals (assuming they retire early), the Flyers are now dealing with a real cap of $59 million, making it difficult or impossible to re-sign Giroux/Couturier/Whomever.

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10-17-2012, 02:02 PM
  #138
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Quote:
Originally Posted by healthyscratch View Post
Andy Strictland
I do find it interesting, but not shocking, that not all NHL owners were aware of proposal given to players before info was leaked to media
2:04pm - 17 Oct 12
That's very interesting. It would be far more interesting to see who was in the dark.

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10-17-2012, 02:10 PM
  #139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheesesteak Invictus View Post
That's very interesting. It would be far more interesting to see who was in the dark.
Snider and the Dolans.
wouldnt shock me one bit.

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10-17-2012, 02:16 PM
  #140
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Snider, Dolan, Leipold, Vanderbeek, and Aquilini.

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10-17-2012, 02:24 PM
  #141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hollywood Couturier View Post
Snider, Dolan, Leipold, Vanderbeek, and Aquilini.
Is that official?

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10-17-2012, 02:28 PM
  #142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hollywood Couturier View Post
Snider, Dolan, Leipold, Vanderbeek, and Aquilini.
Looks about right.

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10-17-2012, 03:17 PM
  #143
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Quote:
Finally, we propose that to facilitate more trades and create increased flexibility in managing Cap Room, Clubs be allowed to allocate portions of a contract's Cap charge (and related salary obligations) in the context of a Player Trade. This will facilitate additional Player movement and trades between teams as they manage their respective Caps and Payroll Range obligations.
Quote:
Due to our proposed change in the Cap treatment of minor league Players on NHL SPCs, we are proposing the elimination of the Re-Entry Waivers provision. The elimination of this provision, coupled with the ability to allocate Cap charges and salary in trades, should lend themselves to fewer NHL-caliber Players being relegated to minor league service for prolonged periods of time.
Quoted from the proposal submitted to the CBA, found at http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=643572

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10-17-2012, 03:19 PM
  #144
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PALE PWNR View Post
Quoted from the proposal submitted to the CBA, found at http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=643572
Does that mean if you want someone traded, the team trading him can pay half of his salary and the other half will go to the team he's traded to? Sorry if I read that wrong.

Also, isn't that what baseball sometimes does?

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10-17-2012, 03:27 PM
  #145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheesesteak Invictus View Post
Is that official?
No, I'm just looking at the teams who circumvented the cap.

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Old
10-17-2012, 03:30 PM
  #146
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SolidSnakeUS View Post
Does that mean if you want someone traded, the team trading him can pay half of his salary and the other half will go to the team he's traded to? Sorry if I read that wrong.

Also, isn't that what baseball sometimes does?
Honestly I'm not entirely sure, what it sounds like to me is that you can trade cap hits and the salary of the caphit you are trading, to teams. For example the Flyers could trade 2 million dollars in cap hit and salary for the next year from Bryz's contract along with a 2nd round pick for future considerations to the Islanders or some team that is able to absorb it. Basically a way for struggling teams to acquire picks or prospects without really giving anything up as well as cap strapped teams the ability to unload cap space and dollars. That's the way I interpret it anyway, I could be way off though as the wording isn't very clear and they don't elaborate on it any more then what I quoted

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10-17-2012, 03:37 PM
  #147
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I think it means you could trade a player, but offer to still pay a portion of his salary/caphit

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Old
10-17-2012, 03:38 PM
  #148
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Originally Posted by thelos View Post
I think it means you could trade a player, but offer to still pay a portion of his salary/caphit
Likely this, I probably interpreted it way wrong.

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Old
10-17-2012, 03:53 PM
  #149
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I don't agree with the punitive measures against teams who "circumvented" the cap. Considering all the teams who handed out long term deals to players over the past 7 years, it amazes me that something like this would even be approved by the owners. I'm speculating here, but I wouldn't be surprised if Bettman & co. threw this in out of spite without asking ALL the owners (certain ones in particular).

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Old
10-17-2012, 04:11 PM
  #150
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Quote:
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I think it means you could trade a player, but offer to still pay a portion of his salary/caphit
wouldnt that mean trading cash?

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