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Around the League 2012-12 I: Gary and Donald sitting in a tree

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Old
10-16-2012, 08:58 PM
  #201
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Originally Posted by BoxOfChocolates View Post
If the players don't agree to a deal soon they can honestly go **** themselves.
The players won't reject the dea. Fehr would, though.

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10-16-2012, 09:27 PM
  #202
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Originally Posted by BoxOfChocolates View Post
If the players don't agree to a deal soon they can honestly go **** themselves.
The PA can reject the deal if the other portions of the proposal are lopsided for the owners.

This is a great offer, it may just need some tweaks though.

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10-16-2012, 10:09 PM
  #203
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Originally Posted by RockLobster View Post
The PA can reject the deal if the other portions of the proposal are lopsided for the owners.

This is a great offer, it may just need some tweaks though.
I'm not talking about the offer itself, I'm just talking about coming to an agreement within the next 9 days.

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10-16-2012, 10:13 PM
  #204
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Originally Posted by BoxOfChocolates View Post
I'm not talking about the offer itself, I'm just talking about coming to an agreement within the next 9 days.
Oh...well in that case...yes, I agree

If a deal isn't done within 9 days based of this proposal, then I'm full-on Pro NHL, it'll show that the PA doesn't actually have Fehr working for them, but that they're working for Fehr imo.

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10-16-2012, 10:39 PM
  #205
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Don't underestimate the NHL I guess...that offer is just diabolical timing.

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10-16-2012, 11:16 PM
  #206
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Since it is most likely dealing with percentages, I'd be okay with a never ending deal. The only way to break it would be for one side to call a halt two years in advance and if the two sides don't resolve their differences in advance a poison pill is injected that automagically reduces ticket prices by 10% across the board and the same deal is automatically re-inserted for a minimum of five years before one side can object. Of course, that is just me...the fan. I'm nobody...but collectively (we the fans) are the only one with skin in the game...it's a shame we can't figure out a way to be represented in these talks. It's our money and our passion that fuels this stupid beast.

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10-16-2012, 11:40 PM
  #207
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Well now that I've had some time to think about the latest happenings here are my thoughts.

I was kind of already on the owners side, now I'm really there. I keep reading comments like, "this is just a ploy to get fans on the owners side" etc. and although there is some truth to this statement, the fact of the matter is at least they are trying to bring back hockey. Whereas the players have done absolutely nothing except make a crummy youtube video telling the fans they want to play. All I can say is lame. The owners really manned up here to try to get a fair deal done ASAP, now its time for the players to man up as well.

Sure the owners offer isn't perfect and will need a couple changes, but for the most part the players couldn't ask for a better deal. If the players can't figure it out in the next week and they aren't playing by 11/2/12, then they will look like crap in the eyes of the public. People will start to wonder if they can't accept a 50/50 revenue breakdown, then what do they want? They will be viewed as unrealistic chumps who aren't grateful for the wonderful opportunity they have to play a kids game for a living and make millions to do it.

Realistically how many non-sport professions can you name where the workers get an equal share of the revenue? I venture to guess very few or none.

The owners literally just caved in and said to the PA we want hockey we don't necessarily want to give you 50% but we are willing to compromise to get the league going again because we know it will be mutually beneficial. If the PA can't work something out off this initial proposal then they need to hire a new leader, because the owners just made it real simple to carve out a fair deal for both sides.

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10-17-2012, 12:26 AM
  #208
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All the stuff I'm hearing about the cap in the new proposal is making me really excited.



Good thing Kroenke is teh cheap, eh?

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10-17-2012, 03:43 AM
  #209
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chet1926 View Post
Well now that I've had some time to think about the latest happenings here are my thoughts.

I was kind of already on the owners side, now I'm really there. I keep reading comments like, "this is just a ploy to get fans on the owners side" etc. and although there is some truth to this statement, the fact of the matter is at least they are trying to bring back hockey. Whereas the players have done absolutely nothing except make a crummy youtube video telling the fans they want to play. All I can say is lame. The owners really manned up here to try to get a fair deal done ASAP, now its time for the players to man up as well.

Sure the owners offer isn't perfect and will need a couple changes, but for the most part the players couldn't ask for a better deal. If the players can't figure it out in the next week and they aren't playing by 11/2/12, then they will look like crap in the eyes of the public. People will start to wonder if they can't accept a 50/50 revenue breakdown, then what do they want? They will be viewed as unrealistic chumps who aren't grateful for the wonderful opportunity they have to play a kids game for a living and make millions to do it.

Realistically how many non-sport professions can you name where the workers get an equal share of the revenue? I venture to guess very few or none.

The owners literally just caved in and said to the PA we want hockey we don't necessarily want to give you 50% but we are willing to compromise to get the league going again because we know it will be mutually beneficial. If the PA can't work something out off this initial proposal then they need to hire a new leader, because the owners just made it real simple to carve out a fair deal for both sides.
I don't think that's a fair assessment of the PA's response. It's not like they can see the 50-50 offer and immediately say, "deal!" We'll have to see where this leads, and where we're at in a week.

This is what Fehr was waiting for, so we'll have to see what he does now. Bettman's initial ridiculous offer put Fehr in a position that he couldn't offer up a fair first proposal of his own, and couldn't throw out proposals left and right. If he would have, Bettman would have done the same thing he did the last lockout, and the players would have payed the price again.

Now Bettman has finally felt enough pressure to give a 50-50 split, and drop the other ridiculous aspects. He did this to himself. The PA I'm sure will now try to see what they can do with the 5 year max length, and I would bet might settle for something like 7 or 8, but possibly could compromise for less. 5 years max is no small issue though, when there previously was no real restriction in writing.

I really have a hard time understanding why anyone would be on the owners side in this. This is the first reasonable stance they have taken, and I find it interesting that they have a plan to keep an 82 game season. Almost like this was their fail safe date they held out for. Fehr didn't bite, and everyone got jerked around in the whole process while Bettman tried to hit another home run.


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Old
10-17-2012, 07:24 AM
  #210
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Originally Posted by chet1926 View Post
Whereas the players have done absolutely nothing except make a crummy youtube video telling the fans they want to play.
I just saw that video, and I hate the players even more now.

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10-17-2012, 07:45 AM
  #211
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Originally Posted by BrickAHL View Post
All the stuff I'm hearing about the cap in the new proposal is making me really excited.



Good thing Kroenke is teh cheap, eh?
No rollbacks. The new offer looks great for Avs fans.

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10-17-2012, 10:17 AM
  #212
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It'll be interesting, should this deal be made, to see the NHL cram an 82-game schedule from a Nov 2 start date.

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10-17-2012, 12:07 PM
  #213
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Originally Posted by iAvs View Post
It'll be interesting, should this deal be made, to see the NHL cram an 82-game schedule from a Nov 2 start date.
The schedule has already been discussed. They would simply pick up where the original schedule was on Nov. 2 and extend the season after the ending date of April 13 as well as fit in one extra game every 5 weeks per team.

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10-17-2012, 12:39 PM
  #214
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Originally Posted by Hanklite View Post
The schedule has already been discussed. They would simply pick up where the original schedule was on Nov. 2 and extend the season after the ending date of April 13 as well as fit in one extra game every 5 weeks per team.
I like it. A lot of people are freaking out that the players will get exhausted too fast, but under that schedule I don't think it would make a huge difference.

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10-17-2012, 01:36 PM
  #215
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Pretty sad that negotiations really haven't started until now.

Owners lowballed with the 43%, and waited out the players until the start of the season. Now they're at 50%, which is probably where they realistically wanted to be from Day 1. It's no shock that they came in with this offer around week 1 of the year.

Pretty calculated and organized negotiations by the owners. I don't know if that's Bettmans doings. Sounds a little too smart for him.

My guess is that the owners have a timeline of how long they will realistically go (money wise) until they cede any more % points. I think the owners are going to sit back now and play hardball until their agreed upon timeline hits.

The players lost with this proposal, because now they have to meet them somewhat halfway to save face with fans, and the owners come off in the media like they're trying to make progress to start hockey.

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10-17-2012, 01:50 PM
  #216
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Originally Posted by BrickAHL View Post
All the stuff I'm hearing about the cap in the new proposal is making me really excited.



Good thing Kroenke is teh cheap, eh?
We've known he's worked with the end of the CBA in mind for a few years now, can I get a high five from anyone else that considers him to be smart instead of cheap?

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10-17-2012, 02:51 PM
  #217
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We've known he's worked with the end of the CBA in mind for a few years now, can I get a high five from anyone else that considers him to be smart instead of cheap?
I never really viewed him as cheap, just smart management. Sure he didn't retain MacClement, but he was asking for ridiculous salary because he simply didn't want to resign here/ wanted to go to Toronto IMO. And people may have complained about him not getting Suter/Parise/ the big fish but really we didn't have much chance of signing them even if he threw the bank at them, and with no roll backs, getting one of them would really hamper this team financially. He's great at resigning our guys to very reasonable contracts.

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10-17-2012, 03:02 PM
  #218
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@Bonzai: It wouldn't be sad if both sides come to an agreement for a 82 game season starting Nov 2. The true sadness is I think Fehr will try and get the MOST out of the deal that will cause another month long stalemate.

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10-17-2012, 04:32 PM
  #219
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From Twitter, Lupul has a good point:

"The offer is a step in the right direction, no doubt- but making it public can only slow down the process. Those were Gary's words, not mine"

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10-17-2012, 04:50 PM
  #220
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From Twitter, Lupul has a good point:

"The offer is a step in the right direction, no doubt- but making it public can only slow down the process. Those were Gary's words, not mine"
The PA can't play both sides...they are always on Social Media talking about it, and then when their proposal was made, its details were leaked online.

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10-17-2012, 04:59 PM
  #221
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From Twitter, Lupul has a good point:

"The offer is a step in the right direction, no doubt- but making it public can only slow down the process. Those were Gary's words, not mine"
Lupul just doesn't get it.

That is not publicly negotiating. That is the NHL showing their offer, not debating the HRR split or contract terms. The details were made public anyway so they just came down with complete transparency.

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10-17-2012, 05:24 PM
  #222
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Fehr goes on about how hockey players will lose 1.6 billion over six years with this agreement. Well, I would love to hear him say how much they will lose by not agreeing to it. Fact is, these are contentious negotiations and both sides need each other for it to work. The sad reality though is that the players need the owners much, much more than the owners need the players. There's not one single owner who came into his riches because he owned an NHL team. The owners can move on without their franchise and still make ungodly amounts of money. The players, by and large, can't. They're good at hockey and some have the smarts and talents to make a good paycheck in another industry...but if the pay in that other industry was as good as the NHL they'd be there and doing that.

It's just frustrating to see both sides arguing over our (the fan's) money and how to divide it. The fact that both sides have taken us for granted pisses me off more than anything. There are no winners in this...only losers.

This is my game 7 of the SCF. If there is not an 82 game season I'm retiring. I will really miss the NHL but life will go on. I know a lot of folks suggest that it's horse-pucky when it comes to these types of threats from a fan...but the NHL is in its infancy in many locations (Denver included.) I suspect there's a lot of casual fans that were getting turned on who also hold this point of view.

It's just not worth it to deal with these kinds of labor strife every few years.

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10-17-2012, 05:24 PM
  #223
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GET IT DONE *****ES!!!

caps

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10-17-2012, 05:39 PM
  #224
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Hank/rock, I'm a tiny bit out of the loop so I don't know who originally leaked it... enlighten me please? Either way, my point was that the bolded is right irrespective of who is saying it, the split could be 60/40, 50/50 or 40/40 with some insane gift of 20% to charity. With it being 50/50, people are jumping straight to "agree now!" while ignoring other issues that need working on.

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10-17-2012, 06:16 PM
  #225
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Hank/rock, I'm a tiny bit out of the loop so I don't know who originally leaked it... enlighten me please? Either way, my point was that the bolded is right irrespective of who is saying it, the split could be 60/40, 50/50 or 40/40 with some insane gift of 20% to charity. With it being 50/50, people are jumping straight to "agree now!" while ignoring other issues that need working on.
I'm not sure there is any agreeing that needs to be worked on. I have a an unspoken contract with my employer. My employer pays me X amount of dollars and I show up and do work. The minute I think I deserve more I approach my boss and say so...my boss has the right to give me a raise or so no. If I don't get what I want, I'm free to go elsewhere to obtain what I'm worth. This is where Unions are terrible because they want contracts that are guaranteed regardless of the workers output.

NHL players are being paid sums of money I literally can't even comprehend to play a game. Sure...they are gifted and talented...but they are being paid not by the owners but by the fans. Now the fans want hockey...not in December, not next year...but damnit right now! There is no way for the players to come out of this in a positive light. They are over-paid, spoiled, rotten little ******** that need to be taught a lesson.

The owners are a bunch of arrogant self-absorbed ******** that don't need hockey to make a living and don't understand it at a fan-level and also need to be taught a lesson.

There really is only one issue. Do we play the game or not. So far both sides have said, "No."

There are no winners...only losers.

As for ancillary issues...do you really think Wade Redden was hurting that bad by playing in the AHL for his NHL contract? Me neither.

No if you want a real issue...how about concussions and how to avoid them or make them better. Unfortunately making it better rests in the medical field...not in a CBA. How to avoid them? Well that is something that could and should be debated a lot more than is a 50/50 split of HRR good enough. That actually involves rules, a change in equipment and hopefully...someday a better helmet or treatment.

Wow...that probably came across more harsh than I intended (at least at you.) So I will now ask you or anyone else that is willing to answer...what specific issues do you think need to be addressed and why do you think they are important enough for the PA to not sign this deal today?

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