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Old
10-17-2012, 08:22 PM
  #101
MAK19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MoreGore View Post
Methot is a very reasonable top 4 defenseman.

Karlsson-Cowen
Ceci-Methot

That top 4 looks fine to me. Methot is a big physical and fast defender. His puck moving is fine, he just doesn't generate a lot of offense.

I see what you are trying to do and I agree with it in theory, but the Sens should use their depth of winger prospects to find a defender not one of their few proven top line wingers.
Michalek probably has more value. Honestly I don't care which way it happens as long as the D-man is good and the trade is fair value.

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Originally Posted by guyzeur View Post
You must have been sleeping on Feb 22nd 2012 when EK slapped a pass to Michalek then no-hands Michalek ''dribbled'' his way around around Washington's defense and goalie...
1 goal.

That was 1 goal where he showed nice hands.

And I was there so I remember quite well thank you very much.

The pass was sick... bank off the boards. Mickey is nothing without Spezza and Karlsson.

Quote:
Originally Posted by internetdotcom View Post
Dude, what do you have agaisnt Michalek? The fact that he is big? Fearless? Great in all zones? Protects his teammates? Scores goals? Is a great power forward? Plays great ES, PP, and PK? I'm not hearing any negatives here. You really seem to have an unnatural hate for Milan Michalek.

Oh, and 35 goal scorers ARE first liners, sorry to burst your bubble.
Fearless? Okie doak if you say so... Great in all zones... you mean except the defensive, neutral and offensive zones right? He's is merely adequate in all of them, not close to great.

"Great powerforward"? Please the guy is soft.

I don't hate Michalek at all. He had a career year, scored 5 empty netters. He won't ever replicate this. He leeched off Spezza and Karlsson. He is what he is, a 2nd line winger. Play Bobby Ryan on that line with Spezza and he gets 70+ points. That's what real 1st liners look like , Michalek had inflated stats.

Therefore I am OK with trading him for a blue chip prospect.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Qward View Post
"Let's trade for Nash" results in "We are rebuilding, going with youth!"
"Lets trade Michalek for a blue chip prospect" results in "We dont need youth."
lol this

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Old
10-17-2012, 08:27 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by The Roffler View Post
Id rather do it for Rundblad.
Are you crazy, I would take Gormley over Rundblad any day.

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Old
10-17-2012, 08:28 PM
  #103
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I would do this if I was Ottawa

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Old
10-17-2012, 08:44 PM
  #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post


Looking and feeling around for potential deals is not the same as trading him for whatever you can get no matter what. Obviously, and you know this. Are you just trying to be dense on purpose?


uhhhh, no. Legit 1st liners don't get only 45 points on Columbus. They get 55+ easily.
What a nonsensical argument. It doesn't really matter anyway, as Michalek, nor every other first liner in the league is not playing on Columbus' top line anytime soon. And since you pretend to know the future of what different players would score with Columbus, care to give me the lotto numbers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
The pass was sick... bank off the boards. Mickey is nothing without Spezza and Karlsson.

Fearless? Okie doak if you say so... Great in all zones... you mean except the defensive, neutral and offensive zones right? He's is merely adequate in all of them, not close to great.

"Great powerforward"? Please the guy is soft.

I don't hate Michalek at all. He had a career year, scored 5 empty netters. He won't ever replicate this. He leeched off Spezza and Karlsson. He is what he is, a 2nd line winger. Play Bobby Ryan on that line with Spezza and he gets 70+ points. That's what real 1st liners look like , Michalek had inflated stats.
Nothing without Spezza and Karlsson eh? Yeah, that's why Greening was a 35 goal guy playing with them right? Oh, wait...

Fearless, yes. Show me any other player on the team that will crash the net like Milan will. He even reinjured his knee a couple of years ago FEARLESSLY crashing the net for a loose puck. The last guy we have had (possibly aside from Neil) to play with as little concern for his own well-being was A-Train.

If you think Milan Michalek is soft, it just re-affirms my belief that you watch very little Sens hockey. Heatley is soft. Milan is quite the opposite.

You don't hate Michalek? Right, that's why every word you utter about him is nothing but negative, and wanting to get rid of him. Oh, and he is no more leeching off Spezza than James Neal was leeching off Malkin.

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Old
10-17-2012, 09:14 PM
  #105
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9MM is a good player. I see sens and pheonix prospect trading partners this year. It's seriously only a matter of time until we move a solid forward prospect for a solid D prospect. I'm sure had the season started there would already be rumors of Ottawa scouting pheonix again.

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Old
10-17-2012, 09:15 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by internetdotcom View Post
What a nonsensical argument. It doesn't really matter anyway, as Michalek, nor every other first liner in the league is not playing on Columbus' top line anytime soon. And since you pretend to know the future of what different players would score with Columbus, care to give me the lotto numbers?
First you agree, now it's nonsensical?

Real 1st liners can create their own offense. they make others better. Which is why they can score 55 points playing with no one.

Michalek is a complementary player. trent loves to bring up those 60 point seasons in SJ - when he was playing with a 100+ points Thornton. In his 1st 2 seasons in Ottawa, there was no such player. And Michalek was 0.5 ppg.

Quote:
Originally Posted by internetdotcom View Post
Nothing without Spezza and Karlsson eh? Yeah, that's why Greening was a 35 goal guy playing with them right? Oh, wait...
Greening would have been sub 20 points had he not played on that top line. Yes it applies to him too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by internetdotcom View Post
Fearless, yes. Show me any other player on the team that will crash the net like Milan will. He even reinjured his knee a couple of years ago FEARLESSLY crashing the net for a loose puck. The last guy we have had (possibly aside from Neil) to play with as little concern for his own well-being was A-Train.
Foligno. Neil. Smith. O'Brien. Alfredsson. Are more fearless than Michalek.

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Originally Posted by internetdotcom View Post
If you think Milan Michalek is soft, it just re-affirms my belief that you watch very little Sens hockey. Heatley is soft. Milan is quite the opposite.
He goes to the front of the net. That's it. Hardly qualifies him as a powerforward. Doesn't hit, doesn't fight, doesn't mix it up, doesn't muscle past anyone, doesn't really muscle anyone off the puck.

You don't know what a powerforward is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by internetdotcom View Post
You don't hate Michalek? Right, that's why every word you utter about him is nothing but negative, and wanting to get rid of him. Oh, and he is no more leeching off Spezza than James Neal was leeching off Malkin.
Exactly.

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Old
10-17-2012, 09:28 PM
  #107
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90 forwards who are better than Michalek


Crosby
Malkin
Datsyuk
Toews
Giroux
Stamkos
Ovechkin
St. Louis
Bergeron
Lucic

Staal
Staal
Backstrom
Richards
Richards
Carter
Brown
Kopitar
Thornton
Marleau

Heatley
Getzlaf
Perry
Ryan
Pavelski
Selanne
Landeskog
Iginla
Koivu
Wheeler

Sedin
Sedin
Kesler
Whitney
Benn
Zetterberg
Filppula
Nash
Gaborik
Hartnell

Krejci
Seguin
Marchand
Vanek
Pominville
Pacioretty
Plekanec
Kessel
Lupul
Cole

Kovalchuk
Neal
Eberle
Hall
Nugent-Hopkins
Elias
Hossa
Sharp
Kane
McDonald

Eriksson
Ribeiro
Parise
Moulson
Erat
Couture
Vrbata
Purcell
Alfredsson
Kane

Fleischmann
Versteeg
Perron
Desharnais
Ryder
Peverley
Franzen
Jokinen
Semin
Fisher

Ennis
Grabovski
Callahan
Weiss
Williams
Oshie
Backes
Skinner
O'Reilly
Duchene


Should I go on? Not a 1st liner.

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Old
10-17-2012, 09:29 PM
  #108
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Is there any actual trade talk here? Move it the Sens forum.

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Old
10-18-2012, 01:44 AM
  #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Qward View Post
"Let's trade for Nash" results in "We are rebuilding, going with youth!"
"Lets trade Michalek for a blue chip prospect" results in "We dont need youth."
The humongous difference being that we are expected to deal Michalek straight up for Gormley here... but Foligno, Zibanejad and something else very painful for Nash.

Could you imagine the combination of these two deals? ... That'd have been disastrous for our franchise.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
OK, and my point is, you're comfortable with this? And when Philly retires, Borowiecki takes his place. You're comfortable with that left side? Good luck winning the cup.
I'm comfortable with the idea that Cowen, Phillips and Methot will fight over the defensive heavy lifting. The priority in Ottawa should be replacing Gonchar's offense, because we can't do it soon enough and Ceci is far from proving that he could be the answer.

Regardless, trading 1 of 2 proven offensive forwards isn't the answer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
I'd feel around for trades with Spezza too. Guy is getting up there.
His age doesn't matter if he can produce at a 70+ point pace for the next 10 years.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
Really? Hossa, Havlat, Alfredsson, Fisher, Yashin, Daigle... None of these were prospects at the same time. 2 overlapped at the same time at the most.
Fisher and Daigle never had 60 point seasons. You're looking for Bonk and Demitra. Regardless, 5 of those players were drafted within a 6 year period from 92-97. That's an extremely tight span for most teams [a team like the Rangers, who've developed what? ... 2 x 60+ point forwards in the past 20-years (Savard & Marchant)].

Quote:
Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
I fail to see how the Sens ever had a prospect pool better than Silfverberg, Zibanejad, Noesen, Puempel, Prince, Pageau, Stone, Petersson, Da Costa, Hoffman, Filatov.
That's because you don't have the experience of watching equally esteemed prospects fail.

If at some point, we produce;
Demitra - Yashin - Alfredsson
Arvedsson - Bonk - Hossa
Daigle - Dackell
within 5 drafts, this will be considered the Golden age of Sens drafting

Quote:
Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
Maybe 2. 3 if everything goes perfect.
Yashin, Bonk, Alfie, Demitra, Hossa, Havlat, Spezza, Vermette... that's all 8 forwards. 3 after 1997. We'd be lucky if one of those prospects ever had a 60+ point season. Michalek is 27 and proven, it'd be stupid to deal him now for somebody much, much, much less proven.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
1-Players miss games, have less points but better points per game than Michalek
2-Some players have off years/horrible linemates but are still better than Michalek. For example, Ryan, Landeskog, Brown and many more

And some players are getting older than Michalek and will never match his PPG again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
Your logic is extremely flawed. You can't just use scoring rank to determine how good a player is. And of course, as you always do, you selectively pick what fits your argument. What about Michalek's first 2 seaons in Ottawa?
In Michalek's 1st 2 seasons in Ottawa, his goals per game remained steady from his SJ seasons. It was only his assists that suffered. Potentially only 2nd assists that suffered as a LW on Spezza's LW, that would have never happened it he had never tried to be an up&down winger on Spezza's left side (as opposed to abandoning his position like Heatley did regularly).

Quote:
Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
Also, Michalek is not that good defensively, merely adequate.
He works very hard and defense is a working mans' ability.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
Give him first line ice time of the Blue Jackets and I doubt he cracks 45 points.
That depends on the player. Some do better with the ice time and some do better with linemates.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
I never said any of those players would be top 4. Lee was horrible pick looking back and at the time. Same with Hickey, etc.
Lot's of players are horrible picks with the benefit of hindsight, even Gormley.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
And notice how Phx fans are rejecting it? Don't you think maybe your perceptions of Michalek and Gormley are slightly off?
Not on a prospect website, no.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
Real 1st liners can create their own offense. they make others better. Which is why they can score 55 points playing with no one.

Michalek is a complementary player. trent loves to bring up those 60 point seasons in SJ - when he was playing with a 100+ points Thornton. In his 1st 2 seasons in Ottawa, there was no such player. And Michalek was 0.5 ppg.


I would want my real 1st liners to produce period.
I'd want my 1st liners to produce period (#1-2).
I'd want my #3-4 to produce period.

Michalek produced. We can count on him as a 3-4.

The 5-6 guys are the guys who we cold probably produce easily through prospect development.

Not, the 1-2 (Spezza) and 3-4 (Michalek) ... when we may only have 2 players who can fill those roles.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
90 forwards who are better than Michalek


Crosby
Malkin
Datsyuk
Toews
Giroux
Stamkos
Ovechkin
St. Louis
Bergeron
Lucic

Staal
Staal
Backstrom
Richards
Richards
Carter
Brown
Kopitar
Thornton
Marleau

Heatley
Getzlaf
Perry
Ryan
Pavelski
Selanne
Landeskog
Iginla
Koivu
Wheeler

Sedin
Sedin
Kesler
Whitney
Benn
Zetterberg
Filppula
Nash
Gaborik
Hartnell

Krejci
Seguin
Marchand
Vanek
Pominville
Pacioretty
Plekanec
Kessel
Lupul
Cole

Kovalchuk
Neal
Eberle
Hall
Nugent-Hopkins
Elias
Hossa
Sharp
Kane
McDonald

Eriksson
Ribeiro
Parise
Moulson
Erat
Couture
Vrbata
Purcell
Alfredsson
Kane

Fleischmann
Versteeg
Perron
Desharnais
Ryder
Peverley
Franzen
Jokinen
Semin
Fisher

Ennis
Grabovski
Callahan
Weiss
Williams
Oshie
Backes
Skinner
O'Reilly
Duchene


Should I go on? Not a 1st liner.
That list is awfully mixed full of players who have barely produced offensively.

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Old
10-18-2012, 09:42 AM
  #110
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Is there any actual trade talk here? Move it the Sens forum.
In all seriousness, if the Sens don't make the playoffs I could see Milan being moved to Phoenix at the deadline.

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Old
10-18-2012, 10:00 AM
  #111
Qward
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In all seriousness, if the Sens don't make the playoffs I could see Milan being moved to Phoenix at the deadline.
Hopefully we come in dead last then trade MM9 to you for Gormley and we pick MacKinnon to replace MM9.

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Old
10-18-2012, 10:11 AM
  #112
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9MM is a good player. I see sens and pheonix prospect trading partners this year. It's seriously only a matter of time until we move a solid forward prospect for a solid D prospect. I'm sure had the season started there would already be rumors of Ottawa scouting pheonix again.
Agreed but you better send a 2nd round pick our way this time.

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Old
10-18-2012, 10:47 AM
  #113
Benny FTW
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Originally Posted by rockinghockey View Post
Are you crazy, I would take Gormley over Rundblad any day.

Well I take crazy pills daily.

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Old
10-18-2012, 12:32 PM
  #114
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Well I take crazy pills daily.
This explains a lot. Where do you get yours?

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Old
10-18-2012, 01:29 PM
  #115
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This explains a lot. Where do you get yours?
Petsmart

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Old
10-18-2012, 02:26 PM
  #116
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Petsmart
k, i lol'd

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