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All Purpose Luongo Trade Discussion (New news) MOD WARNING IN OP

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Old
10-18-2012, 01:23 AM
  #51
vokiel
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As soon as the lockout is over...

Right, see you next summer. Hope the thread lasts.

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10-18-2012, 01:24 AM
  #52
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Genuine question for Canucks fans.
Value aside, how likely is it that Luongo would waive for Toronto?

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10-18-2012, 01:24 AM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafs87 View Post
Vancouver definitely won't "eat" any of the money/cap. It would just make it highway robbery for the leafs or whoever goes for him
They wouldn't do it for the Leafs, but they might for Florida.

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10-18-2012, 01:25 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
What about the part where teams can eat money on players they're trading?
What about it? If the Canucks want to eat some of Luongo's cap in the present time, go for it. Maybe it does increase his value... That's like adding an asset into the deal, and trying to get someone more from the team looking to acquire Lu. But, what i'm saying is his value to the Leafs has nothing to do with the Canucks being on the hook for Lu's remaining term should he retire.

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10-18-2012, 01:25 AM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gooilgo View Post
Genuine question for Canucks fans.
Value aside, how likely is it that Luongo would waive for Toronto?
When asked about his opinion about playing for Chicago or Toronto in an interview during a poker tournament, he said while Florida is good for obvious reasons, any place with a passionate fanbase he would love to play in.

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10-18-2012, 01:27 AM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gooilgo View Post
Genuine question for Canucks fans.
Value aside, how likely is it that Luongo would waive for Toronto?

Is FLA still an option?

Is Lu open to a tandem position with VAN for a bit longer?


If the two options above are closed, then I can definitely see Lu waive for TO.

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10-18-2012, 01:27 AM
  #57
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When asked about his opinion about playing for Chicago or Toronto in an interview during a poker tournament, he said while Florida is good for obvious reasons, any place with a passionate fanbase he would love to play in.
Thanks.

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10-18-2012, 01:28 AM
  #58
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They're decent players, but frankly Raymond for Kulemin is not that far off, and the difference between them is a lot less than that between Luongo and Gunnarsson. It's a worst case scenario deal that I might expect if everything went wrong in the new CBA.
Oh hell no. Kulemin is so much better than Raymond.

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Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
The Sharks couldn't stop Vancouver's offense without Lupul. Not sure why that would be a good thing for opposing teams...
Because Lupul is one of the worst defensive forwards in the league? And considering the level that the Canucks shelter the Sedins, Lupul couldn't be sheltered if he played with the Canucks? And because of that, his line would get man-handled? Or something like that. Personally, I'd take Kulemin over Lupul.

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10-18-2012, 01:30 AM
  #59
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Originally Posted by GoLeafsGo96 View Post
What about it? If the Canucks want to eat some of Luongo's cap in the present time, go for it. Maybe it does increase his value... That's like adding an asset into the deal, and trying to get someone more from the team looking to acquire Lu. But, what i'm saying is his value to the Leafs has nothing to do with the Canucks being on the hook for Lu's remaining term should he retire.
His value goes up because teams wouldn't be on the hook for his cap hit if he retires. This was an uncertainty before the CBA expired and one that could have made teams hesitant. If this is no longer a concern his value goes up accordingly...

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10-18-2012, 01:33 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by GoLeafsGo96 View Post
The contract looks no different to the Leafs whatsoever though. It looks worse for Vancouver, but has no impact on the Leafs. Luongo could just have easily retired without the new development for the potential CBA. In that situation, the Leafs, nor the Canucks, are on the hook for the rest of the term. In this situation, its the same for the Leafs. The only difference is Vancouver can/would be on the hook for the remaining term of Lu's deal should he retire.
This was my first thought too. The only thing I can think of, is perhaps before the lockout, GMs like Burke had a reason to believe the rules for long-term contracts could be affected. Perhaps Burke (and other GMs) knew there would be some kind of crack-down on "retirement contracts" and for that reason, Burke (and other GMs) had hesitations to acquire Luongo, or any other player with a retirement contract. But now with the twist thrown into the CBA about the original team being responsible for the contract after retirement, there are no reasons for GMs to hesitate in acquiring "retirement contracts".

That's the only thing that might make sense to me, if the recent rumours are accurate about what Burke said.

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10-18-2012, 01:34 AM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheJuxtaposer View Post
Oh hell no. Kulemin is so much better than Raymond.



Because Lupul is one of the worst defensive forwards in the league? And considering the level that the Canucks shelter the Sedins, Lupul couldn't be sheltered if he played with the Canucks? And because of that, his line would get man-handled? Or something like that. Personally, I'd take Kulemin over Lupul.
Same, but mostly due to roster needs.

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10-18-2012, 01:34 AM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheJuxtaposer View Post
Oh hell no. Kulemin is so much better than Raymond.

Disagree.



Quote:
Because Lupul is one of the worst defensive forwards in the league? And considering the level that the Canucks shelter the Sedins, Lupul couldn't be sheltered if he played with the Canucks? And because of that, his line would get man-handled? Or something like that. Personally, I'd take Kulemin over Lupul.


The Sedins face the toughest Dpairs+Shutdown lines across the league. Hardly sheltered.

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10-18-2012, 01:34 AM
  #63
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Originally Posted by TheJuxtaposer View Post
Because Lupul is one of the worst defensive forwards in the league? And considering the level that the Canucks shelter the Sedins, Lupul couldn't be sheltered if he played with the Canucks? And because of that, his line would get man-handled? Or something like that. Personally, I'd take Kulemin over Lupul.
Lupul is a right hand shot that can play right wing. Put him with the Sedins where he would be sheltered with a ton of offensive zone starts and you would have to think he's in a position to score a ton of goals...

You think he's so bad defensively that his line gets manhandled, while alongside Ryan Kesler?

Lupul would be a risky target for Vancouver due to his contract status and durability issues. But making them a worse team next season? Hmmmm.

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10-18-2012, 01:36 AM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
His value goes up because teams wouldn't be on the hook for his cap hit if he retires. This was an uncertainty before the CBA expired and one that could have made teams hesitant. If this is no longer a concern his value goes up accordingly...
That's an assumption. We have no idea if teams were hesitant because of this or not. The contract can still have negative value. Many people said, "If his play regresses, just send him to the minors". The issue with this now is that what was purposed is NHL Contracts playing in the AHL then would count towards the cap. This is an assumption as well, but that's why we don't know. It depends what is holding the team looking to acquire Luongo back.

For the Leafs, the issue probably was never the contract. The issue was we do not become a contender with Lu, and likely wouldn't be ready to contend for quite some time. At the point when the team is ready to contend, Luongo is likely much older. The "hesitance" is the fact that nobody knows how long Luongo can preform at an elite level. This is why you won't see a premier prospect or player moved from the Leafs in order to acquire him. The "hesitance" is likely still there.

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10-18-2012, 01:40 AM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
Lupul is a right hand shot that can play right wing. Put him with the Sedins where he would be sheltered with a ton of offensive zone starts and you would have to think he's in a position to score a ton of goals...

You think he's so bad defensively that his line gets manhandled, while alongside Ryan Kesler?

Lupul would be a risky target for Vancouver due to his contract status and durability issues. But making them a worse team next season? Hmmmm.
Put him with the Sedins you have a horrible, horrible defensive line. And since Canucks fans are convinced that the Sedins aren't sheltered, that would be a problem.

Or, you put him with Ryan Kesler and negate all of Kesler's brilliant defensive work. Yes, Lupul is legitimately that poor defensively.

If MG wants to acquire Lupul, than so be it, but I wouldn't be sad to see it.

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10-18-2012, 01:41 AM
  #66
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Originally Posted by GoLeafsGo96 View Post
That's an assumption. We have no idea if teams were hesitant because of this or not. The contract can still have negative value. Many people said, "If his play regresses, just send him to the minors". The issue with this now is that what was purposed is NHL Contracts playing in the AHL then would count towards the cap. This is an assumption as well, but that's why we don't know. It depends what is holding the team looking to acquire Luongo back.

For the Leafs, the issue probably was never the contract. The issue was we do not become a contender with Lu, and likely wouldn't be ready to contend for quite some time. At the point when the team is ready to contend, Luongo is likely much older. The "hesitance" is the fact that nobody knows how long Luongo can preform at an elite level. This is why you won't see a premier prospect or player moved from the Leafs in order to acquire him. The "hesitance" is likely still there.
You have one premier player, Kessel, and one premier prospect, Reilly. Pretty sure anyone with some sense in their head knows those guys are off the table for Lu.

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10-18-2012, 01:43 AM
  #67
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You have one premier player, Kessel, and one premier prospect, Reilly. Pretty sure anyone with some sense in their head knows those guys are off the table for Lu.
Alright. But you won't get Lupul, or Gardiner either. That's what I'm trying to say.. (Many have and will continue to mention them).

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10-18-2012, 01:46 AM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
Then take Raymond out. If he holds any value around the league move him in a separate deal.

Personally, I don't want Raymond on the team next year. He's not worthless, he's just a poor fit on any of the Canucks top 3 lines IMO.
Exactly, why I bristled at Raymond being in the deal. He holds no
worth, Kulemin is VERY functional for the Leafs.

We'll take Raymond, the return will be Lombardi.

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Old
10-18-2012, 01:50 AM
  #69
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Originally Posted by TheJuxtaposer View Post
Put him with the Sedins you have a horrible, horrible defensive line. And since Canucks fans are convinced that the Sedins aren't sheltered, that would be a problem.
Henrik Sedin has been a plus player for 10 consecutive seasons. A +181 in his career. +106 in the last 4 years.

I hope you're being sarcastic.

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10-18-2012, 01:51 AM
  #70
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Gardiner, Kadri Reimer for Luongo + Ballard
HIGHLY HIGHLY doubt gardiner is in the deal

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10-18-2012, 01:51 AM
  #71
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Henrik Sedin has been a plus player for 10 consecutive seasons. A +181 in his career - +106 in the last 4 years.

I hope you're being sarcastic.
I forgot that +/- was indicative of defensive play. Thanks for the reminder.

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10-18-2012, 01:51 AM
  #72
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Originally Posted by TheJuxtaposer View Post
Put him with the Sedins you have a horrible, horrible defensive line. And since Canucks fans are convinced that the Sedins aren't sheltered, that would be a problem.

Or, you put him with Ryan Kesler and negate all of Kesler's brilliant defensive work. Yes, Lupul is legitimately that poor defensively.

If MG wants to acquire Lupul, than so be it, but I wouldn't be sad to see it.
What the ****, Sedin's are very good defensive players, and there IQ and positioning alone makes them fantastic at both ends of the ice.

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10-18-2012, 01:51 AM
  #73
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Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
Henrik Sedin has been a plus player for 10 consecutive seasons. A +181 in his career - +106 in the last 4 years.

I hope you're being sarcastic.
Because the +/- stat is so accurate.

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10-18-2012, 01:52 AM
  #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
Disagree.
Production, age and size all disagree with you.

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10-18-2012, 01:53 AM
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheJuxtaposer View Post
Put him with the Sedins you have a horrible, horrible defensive line. And since Canucks fans are convinced that the Sedins aren't sheltered, that would be a problem.

Before the last 2 years, their Ozone starts were right in line with other top offensive forwards around the league. They also carried a great +/- record along the way. The recent push for more Ozone starts is to maximize their effectiveness offensively, not to protect them defensively.


This is especially dubious since they spent a good chunk of their careers in a defense first system.

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