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Old
10-18-2012, 01:50 AM
  #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Pringles View Post
I think Colborne+Kulemin+2nd for Raymond+Lu is fair.
Seems close.

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10-18-2012, 02:08 AM
  #102
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Originally Posted by markisonfire View Post
Clarke MacArthur and James Reimer plus some picks
What I'm thinking as well.

Thought it was odd that JR was skating with Vancouver.

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10-18-2012, 02:22 AM
  #103
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What about

Nazem Kadri + Carter Ashton/Tyler Biggs + Tim Connolly for Luongo.

Connolly gives us aplay maker for 2nd line, 2nd PP unit center and 3C if Kadri doesnt lock down the role.

He comes off the books next year which helps us get under the cap, and fills a few minor roster holes.

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10-18-2012, 02:25 AM
  #104
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Canucks fans were excited about a potential "Hodgson - Kassian duo" before they found out Hodgson was traded.

Kadri - Kassian would be the next best thing.

Gillis also said he wants to get bigger and younger which Biggs/Ashton would do.

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Old
10-18-2012, 02:37 AM
  #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ominous Grey View Post
What I'm thinking as well.

Thought it was odd that JR was skating with Vancouver.
In Vancouver visiting in-laws. Also has an off-season coach/trainer here in Vancouver.

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Old
10-18-2012, 02:41 AM
  #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kack zassian View Post
What about

Nazem Kadri + Carter Ashton/Tyler Biggs + Tim Connolly for Luongo.

Connolly gives us aplay maker for 2nd line, 2nd PP unit center and 3C if Kadri doesnt lock down the role.

He comes off the books next year which helps us get under the cap, and fills a few minor roster holes.
Not a good deal for us. Kadri seems to have good offensive skill but there is no way his game is well-rounded enough for Gillis/Kadri to center a Luongo deal around him. Ashton/Biggs would be redundant for us as Kassian and Jensen are both better RW prospects with good size. Tim Connolly also won't fit into our lineup, as he won't supplant Kesler after he gets back, nor will he fit into our bottom 6.

Out of all the deals I've seen offered by Leafs fans on here I think Kulemin + Colborne + 2nd makes the most sense for us.

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10-18-2012, 02:45 AM
  #107
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Somewhat raises his trade value but it screws the Canucks long-term.

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Old
10-18-2012, 03:16 AM
  #108
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Originally Posted by LuckyLager View Post
Not a good deal for us. Kadri seems to have good offensive skill but there is no way his game is well-rounded enough for Gillis/Kadri to center a Luongo deal around him. Ashton/Biggs would be redundant for us as Kassian and Jensen are both better RW prospects with good size. Tim Connolly also won't fit into our lineup, as he won't supplant Kesler after he gets back, nor will he fit into our bottom 6.

Out of all the deals I've seen offered by Leafs fans on here I think Kulemin + Colborne + 2nd makes the most sense for us.

Kadri may also be a buy-low candidate. Is his game that much less refined than Hodgsons was?

I agree about Kassian/Jensen being prospects for Biggs/Ashton to beat out.. But can you ever have too many big winger prospects with size?

As for Connolly, I wouldnt expect him to take over for Kes/Hank but Keslers line has lacked a playmaker and Connolly could fit that need (whether it be at center or wing). Gives us a 2nd PP center, and a 3rd line center (and contributes to overall center depth). Gives us another year as a stop-gap to let Kadri/Schroeder earn a spot.

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10-18-2012, 03:18 AM
  #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kack zassian View Post
What about

Nazem Kadri + Carter Ashton/Tyler Biggs + Tim Connolly for Luongo.

Connolly gives us aplay maker for 2nd line, 2nd PP unit center and 3C if Kadri doesnt lock down the role.

He comes off the books next year which helps us get under the cap, and fills a few minor roster holes.
Leafs would do that.

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Old
10-18-2012, 04:17 AM
  #110
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Originally Posted by kack zassian View Post
Kadri may also be a buy-low candidate. Is his game that much less refined than Hodgsons was?
Kadri and Hodgson are fairly comparable. However it's not exactly like AV was in love with Cody's playing style. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if Gillis and AV both prefer Colborne to Kadri, considering Gillis's year-end comments about preojected roster changes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kack zassian View Post
I agree about Kassian/Jensen being prospects for Biggs/Ashton to beat out.. But can you ever have too many big winger prospects with size?
No, but that doesn't mean they would be assets we should be targeting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kack zassian View Post
As for Connolly, I wouldnt expect him to take over for Kes/Hank but Keslers line has lacked a playmaker and Connolly could fit that need (whether it be at center or wing). Gives us a 2nd PP center, and a 3rd line center (and contributes to overall center depth). Gives us another year as a stop-gap to let Kadri/Schroeder earn a spot.
Perhaps. I'm not totally against the idea of acquiring Connolly in a deal, but only if he's valued as a cap dump, and it's not detracting from the collective value we would otherwise return. If that was the case I would prefer the zero-to-negative valued Lombardi.

Also, I think your valuation here might be a little pessimistic. If Connolly is the best roster player coming back to us in the deal then I think TML's 1st would also have to be coming back in that deal.

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10-18-2012, 04:36 AM
  #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kack zassian View Post
Canucks fans were excited about a potential "Hodgson - Kassian duo" before they found out Hodgson was traded.

Kadri - Kassian would be the next best thing.

Gillis also said he wants to get bigger and younger which Biggs/Ashton would do.
i would rather get frattin

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Old
10-18-2012, 04:38 AM
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by porknbeans1000 View Post
Gardiner, Kadri Reimer for Luongo + Ballard
We have way too many defenceman and a Ballard contract:



Prospect, pick and one year dump for Luongo.

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Old
10-18-2012, 04:47 AM
  #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markisonfire View Post
Clarke MacArthur and James Reimer plus some picks
Sounds about right.

Wouldn't shock me to see a conditional pick:

MacArthur, Reimer, 1st (if playoffs)/2nd if not.

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10-18-2012, 06:13 AM
  #114
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Quick questions on the new provision in the proposed CBA:

1. Is it that you can trade "cap hit" amount in the deal of up to $3M?
2. Is it that you can trade "salary" in the deal up to $3M (meaning trading team sends acquiring team money)?
3. Or is it that of both "cap hit" AND "salary" in a deal?

I'm not asking about after Lu retires in 5 yrs because that was clear that the original cap hit would stay with the Canucks. I think the answer to the above could determine who can actually be involved in a deal. Cap hit aside, Luongo has a pretty hefty salary so teams on the lower end of the payroll scale wouldnt have been able to afford him. But if the answer to 2 or 3 above is yes, then that would increase the number of teams able to acquire him I believe.

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Old
10-18-2012, 06:32 AM
  #115
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I'm not going to comment on what I think the specific trade will be... simply because there's still too many variables to be determined in this CBA proposal.

What I will comment on however, is the pieces which would need to be included.

From a Toronto standpoint, any deal for Luongo has to accomodate him for 2013-2014 under a cap of around $60m. Right now, the Leafs are at $63m with MacArthur, Connolly, Lombardi, Bozak, Steckel, Gunnarsson, Kadri & Lupul coming off the books. Lombardi almost certainly won't be back, so that puts the Leafs at basically zero cap space...

But here's the way I see this breaking down...
Bozak + $1.5m.
Lupul + $500k.
Gunnarsson + $2.75m
Kadri = Even
MacArthur - $3.25m
Connolly - $4.75m
Steckel - $200k

That's $3.45m opened up, without replacing Tim Connolly (likely necessary unless Bozak has a breakout year meaning he'll be up more than $1.5m), and without adding the missing defenceman that the Leafs currently need. That's not the $5.3m needed for Luongo... so the only way this works is if Vancouver takes a contract that runs beyond this year (and wouldn't cost as much to replace said player), or is a no-brainer enough of a deal that the Leafs can worry about shedding that contract later.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coolburn View Post
Quick questions on the new provision in the proposed CBA:

1. Is it that you can trade "cap hit" amount in the deal of up to $3M?
2. Is it that you can trade "salary" in the deal up to $3M (meaning trading team sends acquiring team money)?
3. Or is it that of both "cap hit" AND "salary" in a deal?

I'm not asking about after Lu retires in 5 yrs because that was clear that the original cap hit would stay with the Canucks. I think the answer to the above could determine who can actually be involved in a deal. Cap hit aside, Luongo has a pretty hefty salary so teams on the lower end of the payroll scale wouldnt have been able to afford him. But if the answer to 2 or 3 above is yes, then that would increase the number of teams able to acquire him I believe.
#3, IIRC.

To me, the question is, would the Canucks be willing to take on a couple million of his salary to get an even better deal for him, and at least smooth out the effect of his full cap hit coming back when he retires.

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Old
10-18-2012, 07:29 AM
  #116
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Originally Posted by JackJ View Post
Sounds about right.

Wouldn't shock me to see a conditional pick:

MacArthur, Reimer, 1st (if playoffs)/2nd if not.
I would be shocked if Burke traded another 1st. Even if it's lottery protected. Even if it's only if we make the playoffs and thus would be a mid to late 1st. I just can't see that happening.

Not to mention there's not much of a market for Lou, so there's really no reason to include a 1st. Vancouver says no? Ok, go see what one of the other 2-3 teams that have luke-warm interest are willing to offer and get back to us.

If any team REALLY wanted him or if there was any kind of market for him that drives prices up, he would have been traded months ago. The fact that he hasn't been traded indicates to me that there is barely a market for him, so the offers are extremely low, and Gillis has been trying to hold out for more value. Waiting doesn't tend to increase market value.

Nash went for less than what most Columbus fans thought, I see Luongo going for less than what most Vancouver fans think as well.

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Old
10-18-2012, 07:32 AM
  #117
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Originally Posted by AlmightyPO View Post
Kadri+Kulemin+2nd for Lu and Raymond
One of the better deals I've seen; if it were a 1st conditional on playoffs or something I'd do it.

I'd also probably be willing to swap Kulemin for Macarthur if salary is absolutely neccessary.

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10-18-2012, 07:38 AM
  #118
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If true, I hope Colborne is part of the package because he sucks

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10-18-2012, 07:57 AM
  #119
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i would not be surprised to see burke make a move for luongo but i would be shocked to see him overpay.

i cant think of a single trade that burke has made since coming to toronto where toronto didnt come out a head unless you want to count the kessel trade but the leafs still got a ppg player so i wouldnt say it was a total loss.

either way i cant see burke moving any of gardiner, reilly, kadri, biggs, or our 1st. i also cant see him moving lupul or bozak considering they are the only 2 that have shown long term chemistry with kessel.

what are vancouvers needs?

could something based around kulemin, reimer, + get vancouver excited? i recognize it obviously depends on what the + is. i think the + could be one of or a combination of blacker, ashton, ross, mckegg, 2nd rounder, macarthur, lombardi, connolly

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10-18-2012, 08:14 AM
  #120
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As long as it doesnt involve Kessel, Lupul, Gardiner, or Reilly then im all for it. Grabovski wont be asked for due to the center depth of the Nucks, JVR wont be dealt so soon after being acquired, Reimer isnt needed with the emergeence of Lack and Phaneuf isnt needed with Hamhuis, Bieksa and Edler and wont be dealt due to being the captain. I for one would be hesitant to deal either of Gunnarsson or Kulemin but beggers cant be choosers. Everyone else can go, but i really dont see the basis of a deal unless its around Kadri...

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10-18-2012, 08:14 AM
  #121
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Only players that excite me are Lupul, JVR, Gardiner, and Rielly.

Decent pieces are 1st, Kulemin, Kadri.

Throw-in values are 2nd, MacArthur, Colborne, Bozak.

All imo.

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10-18-2012, 08:28 AM
  #122
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Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
What about the part where teams can eat money on players they're trading?
For a team like FLA....that's a big deal. For TO....not so much.

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Old
10-18-2012, 08:39 AM
  #123
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This clause is huge " • All years of existing SPCs with terms in excess of five (5) years will be accounted for and charged against a team's Cap (at full AAV) regardless of whether or where the Player is playing. In the event any such contract is traded during its term, the related Cap charge will travel with the Player, but only for the year(s) in which the Player remains active and is being paid under his NHL SPC. If, at some subsequent point in time the Player retires or ceases to play and/or receive pay under his NHL SPC, the Cap charge will automatically revert (at full AAV) to the Club that initially entered into the contract for the balance of its term."

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10-18-2012, 08:45 AM
  #124
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Yeah, it really mitigates the risk any team trading for Luongo takes on.

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10-18-2012, 08:45 AM
  #125
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Originally Posted by seanlinden View Post
I'm not going to comment on what I think the specific trade will be... simply because there's still too many variables to be determined in this CBA proposal.

What I will comment on however, is the pieces which would need to be included.

From a Toronto standpoint, any deal for Luongo has to accomodate him for 2013-2014 under a cap of around $60m. Right now, the Leafs are at $63m with MacArthur, Connolly, Lombardi, Bozak, Steckel, Gunnarsson, Kadri & Lupul coming off the books. Lombardi almost certainly won't be back, so that puts the Leafs at basically zero cap space...

But here's the way I see this breaking down...
Bozak + $1.5m.
Lupul + $500k.
Gunnarsson + $2.75m
Kadri = Even
MacArthur - $3.25m
Connolly - $4.75m
Steckel - $200k

That's $3.45m opened up, without replacing Tim Connolly (likely necessary unless Bozak has a breakout year meaning he'll be up more than $1.5m), and without adding the missing defenceman that the Leafs currently need. That's not the $5.3m needed for Luongo... so the only way this works is if Vancouver takes a contract that runs beyond this year (and wouldn't cost as much to replace said player), or is a no-brainer enough of a deal that the Leafs can worry about shedding that contract later.



#3, IIRC.

To me, the question is, would the Canucks be willing to take on a couple million of his salary to get an even better deal for him, and at least smooth out the effect of his full cap hit coming back when he retires.
Toronto has 41.5 million committed to 2013/14 -- with only Lupul of concern and possibly new deals for Bozak and MacArthur. Kadri, Gunnarson and Holzner all RFA. With the proposed cap at around 59 for that year it's doable.

Going to be an interesting season if the cap comes down.

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