HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Pacific Division > Los Angeles Kings
Notices

The lockout thread

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
10-17-2012, 02:47 PM
  #501
KopitarFAN
Reno Sucks!
 
KopitarFAN's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Lost Wages, NV
Country: United States
Posts: 9,362
vCash: 500
We shouldn't be surprised that it wasn't met with great enthusiasm, when you're taking a major cut it never will be. The only reason for a pessimistic outlook right would be if Fehr had said "no" to the proposal on the spot, like both sides have on all of the others.

We can't really judge the situation until the PA responds in the coming days.

KopitarFAN is offline  
Old
10-17-2012, 05:38 PM
  #502
RonSwanson*
Gadfly
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Food 'N Stuff
Country: United States
Posts: 8,769
vCash: 500
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the salary floor today is higher than the cap was 7 years ago. So why are the players crying foul about not getting their fair share of the league revenue increase?


Last edited by RonSwanson*: 10-17-2012 at 10:02 PM.
RonSwanson* is offline  
Old
10-17-2012, 05:58 PM
  #503
Buddy The Elf
Kings!
 
Buddy The Elf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Belmont Shore
Country: United States
Posts: 9,627
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RonSwanson View Post
Correct me if I'm wrong, butt he salary floor today is higher than the cap was 7 years ago. So why are the players crying foul about not getting their fair share of the league revenue increase?
League revenues have increased but the owners are asking the players to take a smaller percentage of that revenue (50% versus 57%). With a lower cap floor and/or ceiling, the players will be getting less of the proverbial pie. I still don't know exactly what they want and I don't believe anyone does because they don't really say. All they appear to do is complain about the offers the owners make. Fehr called the last offer "less Draconian". I mean really? The players are one step away from the Gulag apparently. This guy is a total blowhard. I'm over the players versus owners debate. Both are idiots as far as I'm concerned but Donald Fehr takes the cake.

Buddy The Elf is offline  
Old
10-17-2012, 06:01 PM
  #504
KINGS17
Smartest in the Room
 
KINGS17's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Country: United States
Posts: 15,533
vCash: 500
If the owners called snow "white", Fehr would call it "black".

KINGS17 is offline  
Old
10-17-2012, 07:09 PM
  #505
Kingsfan1
Registered User
 
Kingsfan1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Staples Center
Country: Armenia
Posts: 1,204
vCash: 500
7 PM on FSW tonight Kings vs Canucks Game 1 and Game 2 !!!

I been anticipitating the Canucks series and i know few others did as well so watch it !

Kingsfan1 is offline  
Old
10-17-2012, 08:08 PM
  #506
DaAnimal
Registered User
 
DaAnimal's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Pasadena
Country: United States
Posts: 1,369
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by KINGS17 View Post
If the owners called snow "white", Fehr would call it "black".
lolz


what would bettman be called?

DaAnimal is offline  
Old
10-17-2012, 09:14 PM
  #507
Herby
Culture Changer
 
Herby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Chicago
Country: United States
Posts: 14,843
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by KINGS17 View Post
If the owners called snow "white", Fehr would call it "black".

Herby is offline  
Old
10-17-2012, 09:21 PM
  #508
Herby
Culture Changer
 
Herby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Chicago
Country: United States
Posts: 14,843
vCash: 500
I just hope it gets to a vote of the membership.

Often times in labor disputes, the union leadership has a much stronger and hard line stance than the rank and file members who just want to get back to work.

Herby is offline  
Old
10-17-2012, 09:29 PM
  #509
Jason Lewis
Hockey's Future Staff
 
Jason Lewis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 5,014
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Herby View Post
I just hope it gets to a vote of the membership.

Often times in labor disputes, the union leadership has a much stronger and hard line stance than the rank and file members who just want to get back to work.
Gaging by the comments by Kevin Bieksa...i'm scared of a member vote. Granted, they played three separate sound bites from players, one positive, one neutral but eager, and the third negative...which was Bieksa's

It was on NHL Home Ice Radio so I don't have a written quote..but he basically suggested that this offer was "just a PR move by the NHL."

Jason Lewis is offline  
Old
10-17-2012, 09:35 PM
  #510
Herby
Culture Changer
 
Herby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Chicago
Country: United States
Posts: 14,843
vCash: 500
Don't underestimate the sway that spouses may have in all of this also.

I'd take an NHLPA vote, couldn't be any worse than the thoughts of a hardliner like Fehr.

Herby is offline  
Old
10-17-2012, 09:48 PM
  #511
KingLB
Registered User
 
KingLB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 7,128
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Lewis View Post
Gaging by the comments by Kevin Bieksa...i'm scared of a member vote. Granted, they played three separate sound bites from players, one positive, one neutral but eager, and the third negative...which was Bieksa's

It was on NHL Home Ice Radio so I don't have a written quote..but he basically suggested that this offer was "just a PR move by the NHL."
Is he a player rep? I would expect players "closer to Fehr" to be hardliners as well. Likely their

Quote:
Originally Posted by Herby View Post
Don't underestimate the sway that spouses may have in all of this also.

I'd take an NHLPA vote, couldn't be any worse than the thoughts of a hardliner like Fehr.
Not just the spouses....but fans on twitter and the what not. I guarantee this stuff starts getting to some guys. And once a few guys start to crack the fissure spreads. That may be why Fehr may not want a vote. Right now players may be afraid to speak up in opposition for fear of being a minority dissenter. But if after a vote you have 10-15% willing to settle the ones "afraid" see they aren't the only ones and start to speak up. And thus....the PA is weakened.

KingLB is offline  
Old
10-17-2012, 10:54 PM
  #512
Gentle Ben Kenobi
That's no moon......
 
Gentle Ben Kenobi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Tatooine
Posts: 19,081
vCash: 863
I am curious to they players come back with tomorrow.

I expect opposition to the 2 year entry level contract rule. The UFA Age increase.

It'll be ineteresting to see what they will settle on and how much more of a revenue sharing increase they ask for.

Gentle Ben Kenobi is offline  
Old
10-17-2012, 10:54 PM
  #513
Shellz
Registered User
 
Shellz's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: California
Posts: 17,311
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingsfan1 View Post
7 PM on FSW tonight Kings vs Canucks Game 1 and Game 2 !!!

I been anticipitating the Canucks series and i know few others did as well so watch it !
This just makes me miss hockey more :[

Shellz is offline  
Old
10-18-2012, 12:10 AM
  #514
HockeyCA
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Country: Canada
Posts: 246
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buddy The Elf View Post
League revenues have increased but the owners are asking the players to take a smaller percentage of that revenue (50% versus 57%). With a lower cap floor and/or ceiling, the players will be getting less of the proverbial pie. I still don't know exactly what they want and I don't believe anyone does because they don't really say. All they appear to do is complain about the offers the owners make. Fehr called the last offer "less Draconian". I mean really? The players are one step away from the Gulag apparently. This guy is a total blowhard. I'm over the players versus owners debate. Both are idiots as far as I'm concerned but Donald Fehr takes the cake.

Are you really arguing that Donald Fehr is the one to blame in all of this? Gary Bettman has presided over 3 lockouts over the past 20 years. He canceled an entire season! Think about how crazy that sounds. A commissioner of a professional sports league which generates multiple BILLIONS of dollars per year in revenue actually cancelled an entire year. His reasoning for why the league needed substantial changes in how the league operates was because too many teams were losing money. All of the teams that were in financial trouble were teams that HE placed in sunbelt markets. Gary Bettman has been one of the worst commissioners in the history of professional sports. He almost single handedly is responsible for reducing the popularity of the sport among the "casual fan" in America. He took the sport from ESPN to Versus for crying out loud! Instead of placing franchises in markets that would provide SIGNIFICANT revenue for the league, he placed them in sunbelt communities which generate very little, and instead need to be given a life line by other markets in order to stay viable.

NOW, the league wants the players to take a 7% pay cut, hundreds of millions of dollars, and yet somehow the players should be happy about all of this? This is something that they should roll over and just take, even though the league last year generated record revenue? I choose to side with men, and in a lot of cases young kids, who defied the odds and fought their way into becoming NHL players; rather than a group of BILLIONAIRE owners whose main objective is to generate as much profit they possibly can out of their side business "hobbies."

HockeyCA is offline  
Old
10-18-2012, 12:33 AM
  #515
Dooney
Love me some Carter!
 
Dooney's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Sunny So Cal.
Country: United States
Posts: 9,992
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Lewis View Post
Gaging by the comments by Kevin Bieksa...i'm scared of a member vote. Granted, they played three separate sound bites from players, one positive, one neutral but eager, and the third negative...which was Bieksa's

It was on NHL Home Ice Radio so I don't have a written quote..but he basically suggested that this offer was "just a PR move by the NHL."
I'm thinking the offer was more of a PR move for sure on Bettmans part to save himself and look like a hero in all of this with a 82 game season saved and probably his job saved as well.

Dooney is offline  
Old
10-18-2012, 01:20 AM
  #516
Holden Caulfield
Moderator
Perennial Skeptic
 
Holden Caulfield's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Winnipeg
Country: Canada
Posts: 11,640
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyCA View Post
His reasoning for why the league needed substantial changes in how the league operates was because too many teams were losing money. All of the teams that were in financial trouble were teams that HE placed in sunbelt markets. Gary Bettman has been one of the worst commissioners in the history of professional sports. He almost single handedly is responsible for reducing the popularity of the sport among the "casual fan" in America. He took the sport from ESPN to Versus for crying out loud! Instead of placing franchises in markets that would provide SIGNIFICANT revenue for the league, he placed them in sunbelt communities which generate very little, and instead need to be given a life line by other markets in order to stay viable.
"
Christ the sunbelt is really expanding all of the sudden. When did Ottawa, Edmonton, Pittsburgh, Buffalo along with losses of Winnipeg, Hartford, Minnesota, Quebec were all part of the sunbelt. Damn. Cause those were the teams in trouble last lockout. In serious trouble right now would only be Phoenix, New York I, New Jersey, Columbus. Not really sunbelt. Dallas, St. Louis have new owners, despite the terribad rumours FLA is pretty solid there with the business plan they have.

Not sure how moving from 80 million per year on ESPN to having the option of moving to Versus for a raise or staying on ESPN for FREE is Bettman's fault. He has managed to turn that into a record 200 million per year with NBC Sports, as their flagship as they try to break ESPN's monopoly (and although still lagging, are gaining ground little by little).

__________________


Holden Caulfield is offline  
Old
10-18-2012, 02:02 AM
  #517
Master Yoda
Master Deano
 
Master Yoda's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Los Angeles
Country: South Korea
Posts: 107
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyCA View Post
A commissioner of a professional sports league which generates multiple BILLIONS of dollars per year in revenue actually cancelled an entire year.
People really need to be able to distinguish revenue and profit (or net income). They are not the same. Revenue - Expense = Net Income. So if a business sells $100 million of sofas but it costs $43 million to make those sofas and you're paying $57 million in employee salaries, the business is not making any money.

Master Yoda is offline  
Old
10-18-2012, 02:03 AM
  #518
damacles1156
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 12,214
vCash: 500
Once again, some of you people give Bettman way too much credit.

The guy is a mouth piece for the owners. If a season is lost it has ZEROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO ZEROOOOOOOOO ZEROOOOOOOOO ZEROOOOOO

To do with Gary Betman. The guy doesn't tell the owners to DO ANYTHING.

The Owners run the show..... PERIOD. Don't be so naive.

damacles1156 is offline  
Old
10-18-2012, 02:06 AM
  #519
damacles1156
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 12,214
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Master Yoda View Post
People really need to be able to distinguish revenue and profit (or net income). They are not the same. Revenue - Expense = Net Income. So if a business sells $100 million of sofas but it costs $43 million to make those sofas and you're paying $57 million in employee salaries, the business is not making any money.
BINGO

And what is the NUMBER 1 expense in Hockey.....Why that would be player salary........


damacles1156 is offline  
Old
10-18-2012, 09:50 AM
  #520
Buddy The Elf
Kings!
 
Buddy The Elf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Belmont Shore
Country: United States
Posts: 9,627
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by damacles1156 View Post
Once again, some of you people give Bettman way too much credit.

The guy is a mouth piece for the owners. If a season is lost it has ZEROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO ZEROOOOOOOOO ZEROOOOOOOOO ZEROOOOOO

To do with Gary Betman. The guy doesn't tell the owners to DO ANYTHING.

The Owners run the show..... PERIOD. Don't be so naive.
I'm sorry but there is plenty of blame to go around and plenty for Bettman too. There are people in the world that get deals done and he isn't one of them. He may be a mouthpiece to the owners but that is absolving him of some of his responsibility as the commissioner. His job is to make sure hockey gets played and this is the third time that there is a work stoppage on his watch.

Quote:
According to the NHL Constitution, Article VI, section 6.1:

6.1 Office of Commissioner, Election and Term of Office The League shall employ a Commissioner selected by the Board of Governors. The Commissioner shall serve as the Chief Executive Officer of the League and is charged with protecting the integrity of the game of professional hockey and preserving public confidence in the League. The Board of Governors shall determine the term of office and compensation of the Commissioner. The Commissioner shall be elected a majority of the Governors present and voting at a League meeting at which a quorum was present when it was convened.[1]

In Section 6.3, his duties are spelled out as having "responsibility for the general supervision and direction of all business and affairs of the League", co-ordinates matters between member clubs and serves as the principal public spokesman for the League. The Commissioner also has authority over dispute resolution, League committees, interpretation of League rules, appointment of League staff, NHL financial matters, contracting authority, scheduling, officials and disciplinary powers.[2] The Commissioner also determines the date and places of Board of Governor meetings.
If he is responsible for all business and affairs of the league, he certainly is at least partly to blame. In fact, his business plans are what lead us to this point. From his expansion ideas tohHis authorization of the last CBA in which the owners got most, if not all of their demands which is now failing is are both failures on his part. Donald Fehr wasn't around last time there was a lockout. While he is a troll too, Bettman IS part of the problem.

Buddy The Elf is offline  
Old
10-18-2012, 10:08 AM
  #521
Buddy The Elf
Kings!
 
Buddy The Elf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Belmont Shore
Country: United States
Posts: 9,627
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyCA View Post
Are you really arguing that Donald Fehr is the one to blame in all of this? Gary Bettman has presided over 3 lockouts over the past 20 years. He canceled an entire season! Think about how crazy that sounds. A commissioner of a professional sports league which generates multiple BILLIONS of dollars per year in revenue actually cancelled an entire year. His reasoning for why the league needed substantial changes in how the league operates was because too many teams were losing money. All of the teams that were in financial trouble were teams that HE placed in sunbelt markets. Gary Bettman has been one of the worst commissioners in the history of professional sports. He almost single handedly is responsible for reducing the popularity of the sport among the "casual fan" in America. He took the sport from ESPN to Versus for crying out loud! Instead of placing franchises in markets that would provide SIGNIFICANT revenue for the league, he placed them in sunbelt communities which generate very little, and instead need to be given a life line by other markets in order to stay viable.

NOW, the league wants the players to take a 7% pay cut, hundreds of millions of dollars, and yet somehow the players should be happy about all of this? This is something that they should roll over and just take, even though the league last year generated record revenue? I choose to side with men, and in a lot of cases young kids, who defied the odds and fought their way into becoming NHL players; rather than a group of BILLIONAIRE owners whose main objective is to generate as much profit they possibly can out of their side business "hobbies."
I agree with part of what you said but not all. I do think Bettman is part of the problem. I didn't see your post until after I posted above but there is plenty of blame to go around.

But if the league has record revenue (which btw, see the post regarding the difference between revenue and profit, there is a big difference and that is creating one of the biggest problems in the current CBA), how in the hell did Bettman singlehandedly reduce the popularity among causal fan? That makes zero sense. They are making record revenue (again, not profit) because more people are watching and going to games. Those two statements just don't jive.

The bottom line in all of this is the players want what the owners already have, money. This will be resolved on their terms. As you've seen on social media and various other places, most people are pissed at everyone because they are all to blame. The players hired Fehr who has a history of long drawn out cut throat labor negotiations. They stalled negotiating until late into the summer when the league apparently tried to start last season. They haven't budged from their original position. You basically have two sides playing chicken and when you do the math, if the players lose a season, good luck getting that money back. The 7% difference you and the players seem to be clammoring about isn't greater than a year of lost salary. So the players are willing the cut their nose off to spite their face.

But I do agree, the owners made their bed and are now lying in it. Unfortunately for the players, some owners will probably go out of business if things continue on the way they are. That isn't good for either of them. Both sides need to move from their positions to get a deal done. From all accounts in the media, the owners have been trying to do that and up until this point, it doesn't appear the players have at all.

I do blame ALL parties here. They are all at fault. But as I've said over and over in this thread is that I do not understand what the players are trying to accomplish. Go look at what Mike Modano said on the eve of this year's lockout. The players will never recoup the money they forfeit IF the season gets canceled. It is in their best interest to start moving from their position and get a deal done ASAP so the season isn't lost.

Buddy The Elf is offline  
Old
10-18-2012, 10:14 AM
  #522
damacles1156
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 12,214
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buddy The Elf View Post
I'm sorry but there is plenty of blame to go around and plenty for Bettman too. There are people in the world that get deals done and he isn't one of them. He may be a mouthpiece to the owners but that is absolving him of some of his responsibility as the commissioner. His job is to make sure hockey gets played and this is the third time that there is a work stoppage on his watch.



If he is responsible for all business and affairs of the league, he certainly is at least partly to blame. In fact, his business plans are what lead us to this point. From his expansion ideas tohHis authorization of the last CBA in which the owners got most, if not all of their demands which is now failing is are both failures on his part. Donald Fehr wasn't around last time there was a lockout. While he is a troll too, Bettman IS part of the problem.
Gary Bettman's job is not to make sure Hockey is played.

If that were the case, the Owners would have fired him after the first lockout.

His job is too get a Deal the owners want. So far Bettman has done that, that is why he still has a Job. The First time Bettman does not get a deal the owners want...... He will no longer have a job.

I am not saying all the happenings in the NHL are not Bettmans (Ideas). But people that think Bettman is some cavalier running all over the owners, are delusional.

Every move Bettman makes; has the backing of what ever power group of owners run the show. It may not be every owner, but it's the owners that matter.

Or the guy wouldn't have a freakin job, Period.


Last edited by damacles1156: 10-18-2012 at 10:33 AM.
damacles1156 is offline  
Old
10-18-2012, 10:29 AM
  #523
Butch 19
King me
 
Butch 19's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: L.A. suburb
Country: United States
Posts: 8,699
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyCA View Post
Are you really arguing that Donald Fehr is the one to blame in all of this? Gary Bettman has presided over 3 lockouts over the past 20 years. He canceled an entire season! Think about how crazy that sounds. A commissioner of a professional sports league which generates multiple BILLIONS of business....
YEAh! And none of those lockouts had anything to do with the NHLPA!


(or maybe hockey players are the dumbest athletes on the planet?...)

Butch 19 is offline  
Old
10-18-2012, 10:31 AM
  #524
HockeyCA
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Country: Canada
Posts: 246
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Master Yoda View Post
People really need to be able to distinguish revenue and profit (or net income). They are not the same. Revenue - Expense = Net Income. So if a business sells $100 million of sofas but it costs $43 million to make those sofas and you're paying $57 million in employee salaries, the business is not making any money.
Thank you for explaining to me the difference between revenues and net profit, because I was indeed not aware. It is quite obvious that the NHL made a profit last year. I am unable to find the exact number, but one can assume it was substantial. Thus, what the real issue in all of this is the net distribution of those profits among the other owners. Otherwise, it really is just greed isn't it? A group of Billionaires crying foul. Again, I reiterate, how can anyone support multi-billionaire league owners over farm boys and middle class kids who fought their way to make it. Does not make much sense to me.

HockeyCA is offline  
Old
10-18-2012, 10:34 AM
  #525
Buddy The Elf
Kings!
 
Buddy The Elf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Belmont Shore
Country: United States
Posts: 9,627
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by damacles1156 View Post
Gary Bettman's job is not to make sure Hockey is played.

If that were the case the Owners would have fired him after the first lockout.

His job is too get a Deal the owners want. So far Bettman has done that, that is why he still has a Job. The First time Bettman does not get a deal the owners want...... He will no longer have a job.

I am not saying all the happenings in the NHL are not Bettmans (Ideas). But people that think Bettman is some cavalier running all over the owners are delusional.

Every move Bettman makes has the backing of what ever power group of owners run the show. It may not be every owner, but it's the owners that matter.
Or the guy wouldn't have a freakin job Period.
You are missing the point. His job description is to facilitate business. He is the ****ing CEO and they aren't working and he isn't part of the problem? I'm so over this whole debate because there really isn't one as far as I'm concerned.

The owners are *******s for hiring..
Gary Bettman who is an *******.
The players are *******s for hiring..
Donald Fehr who is a piece of **** (i had to differentiate him).

That is my two cents. They can all go to hell in a hand basket. They all share blame in this. $3.1 Billion (or whatever it is) and they can't figure it out. Well, this middle class american can't relate to any of them. They are all **** heads until further notice.

Buddy The Elf is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:59 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.